Current Format

Discussion in 'TCG News & Gossip Discussion' started by Sweet, Apr 11, 2012.

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  1. Sweet

    Sweet New Member

    What are peoples thoughts on it?

    The problems I see -

    Mewtwo EX is essential in any deck other than Durant. You'll either need 2-3 depending on if you run CMT or not. They're expensive.

    Durant takes no skill. People can find the lists online with websites like 6 prizes underground. It's either the 3rd or 4th best deck.

    Going first is too good.

    Pokemon Catcher is too good.

    Basic decks are the only playable decks.

    EDIT:

    Another problem, the lack of techs. There's never any really surprises that can come into play in games. You always know what's coming.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2012
  2. cabd

    cabd New Member

    Replies in Green.
     
  3. Sweet

    Sweet New Member

    Mewtwo counters itself, Luxray doesn't. Most decks that run Luxray ran 1, not 2 like Mewtwo. Machamp/Vilegar/Donphan etc could counter it, Mewtwo's only good counter is itself. Messiemew isn't that good.

    Durant doesn't takes little skill then, but compared to Zekeel's, huge difference.

    I completely agree - Pokemon Reversal was horrible with the flips, so they should ban both.

    Stage 2's can be inconsistent, and get ripped to shreds by Pokemon Catcher and Mewtwo EX etc Tyram is really average, same with Vileplume varients. Why aren't they as popular...? Because they're bad. Surely if Mewtwo EX is so expensive, then stage 2 decks will be more popular?
     
  4. QD4U

    QD4U New Member

    Durant takes skill to play. It may be "simple" in the sense that you really only use one attack the whole game, but it certainly does require skill. It also happens to be one of the worse "top" decks in the current format. It has a terrible Eels match-up and is easily donked by Celebi and friends. Definetely one of the harder decks to rack up wins with currently.

    Pretty much agree with the other things you mentioned. I don't like the current format one bit. ZekEels mirrors everywhere, stage 2 decks are dead, yeah you already mentioned that but still. Patiently waiting for new sets to be released, maybe then I can start enjoying playing the game again.
     
  5. baby mario

    baby mario Front Page Article Editor<br><a href="http://pokeg

    Chomp C countered itsefl though. Many Luxchomp decks ran 2-2 Luxray (I know I did at various times). You say Champ/Vilegar /Donphan countered it . . . well, obviously not enough to prevent it being the dominant BDIF for a very long time (compare Mewtwo which has only been dominant for ONE set of tournaments).

    It's ok. It's viable.

    Durant takes a bit more skill than people give it credit for, but it's hardly the first deck in the history of Pokemon to not require much skill. Shuppet Donk wasn't rocket science either . . . but it was a competitive deck.

    Catcher makes certain decks and strategies a less attractive option. That doesn't make it bad.

    Yep, Stage 2s are dead for the moment. But a few months ago at CCs, they were dominating (Chandy, Zone, Typhlosion), and that was WITH Catcher in the format. Decks with multiple Stage 2s contested the final at Worlds. It all goes in cycles. Right now they aren't good to play. Sooner or later, they will be.

    If people really want to do well, they find a way to get Mewtwos. Just like they found a way to get Luxray LV X, or Lugia EX, or the massive amounts of EXs you needed for Absolutions etc.
     
  6. Raen

    Raen New Member

    I didn't read this thread, because I didn't want to sway my opinion.

    Which, by the way, is "I like our format."
     
  7. Deoxys Cool Form

    Deoxys Cool Form New Member

    I like this format a lot, I think the next set will make it much better though. Cards like Raikou EX, Groudon EX, Darkness etc will spice it up for sure.
     
  8. Sweet

    Sweet New Member

    Durant doesn't have enough skill to deserve a place in a skill based format.

    Garchomp C Lv.X was fine countering itself - unlike Mewtwo, it was difficult to fit into any deck, and it was cheap from being made into a tin.

    2-2 Luxray was played to counter Vilegar; so decks like Vilegar & Machamp must have been scary enough to change decks.

    Shuppet was so bad for the format - I'm not saying last format was perfect either, I just think it was much better.

    Pokemon Catcher prevents so much more variety, something this format lacks.

    Raen - why?

    deoxys - why? I agree/hope so, it looks promising.
     
  9. machampion12

    machampion12 New Member

    Well at least mewtwo cant be played like a catcher like Luxray.:tongue:
     
  10. baby mario

    baby mario Front Page Article Editor<br><a href="http://pokeg

    Matter of opinion. If you don't want to play Durant . . . then play something that you think is more skillful. Just because you don't like a deck or a card, doesn't make it 'bad for the format (this is a mistake that a lot of people make).

    Cost is completely irrelevant. A card isn't bad for the game because it is expensive. Another mistake a lot of people make.

    There were lots of reasons why people played 2-2 Luxray (eg: because a Chomp start was prefered to a Lux start). If Machamp was that scary, how come Psychic Toxicroak G didn't get played that much?

    I liked last format better as well. But things change and good players adapt.

    Really? I don't remember it preventing variety during City Championships, where tournaments were won by Chandy, Magnezone, Reshiphlosion, ZPST, 6 Corners, Durant, CaKE, Truth variants, Donphan/Dragons . . . and a whole lot more.

    That's just a lazy cliche you are bringing out there,
     
  11. SMP88

    SMP88 New Member

    Couldn't you have posted this in one of the other 4 topics that are debating this format?

    For the record, I like the format. Cost is irrelevant when it comes to mewtwo and it takes quite a bit if skill to run any of the winning decks in this format. Knowing when to drop a mewtwo or what energy to discard with crushing hammer/lost remover takes some skill.
     
  12. jjkkl

    jjkkl Front Page Article Editor

    In this format, Durant arguably requires more skill than any other deck to succeed, since you need to figure out your opponent's counter-Durant strategy and counter that. Aside from that, your comment is a value judgment, and therefore isn't very compelling.

    I'll give you the cheap part, since that's what it handy. But the former is totally wrong. Garchomp was in A LOT of decks. Dialgachomp, Sablelock, and Gengar/Garchomp are all examples of decks running the Garchomp C line. It was pretty easy to put into a deck.

    Huh. I thought it was because getting a prized Luxray GL Lvl. X and getting Sprayed on a Time Walk meant losing the game.

    How so? Shuppet didn't distort the format in any way. I didn't recall seeing any Shuppet plagues going about, messing up people's games.

    Variety, as I regularly argue, is a weak argument for the healthiness of a format. Tons of people like the Gardevoir/Gallade format, and yet it ended up being a 1-3 deck format. I'm not going to defend or disparage Catcher, but to argue against it out of variety isn't sufficient because every format we hit a singularity.

    Why does it look promising? It's more large Basics, which seems sort of incongruous with your argument.
     
  13. Raen

    Raen New Member

    If you've read anything I've posted in the last month you would know my thinking, but I suppose I can reiterate.

    My taste or distaste for a format is almost entirely related to the importance of player skill. Last year was fantastic for that; SP mirror's were incredibly skill based, and so were most of the other matchups. Deck building mattered a lot, and it was fun.

    However, with the B&W rule change fiasco, that format quickly became TERRIBLE. Spring BRs were fairly lucky based and, while I still enjoyed the game, I was glad for a rotation.

    That rotation didn't help all that much though. Nats/Worlds were awful in the luck department. Skill seemed at an all time low and donks and poor starts were determining winners, not player skill in and out of game. Fall BRs/Regs weren't much better.

    Cities were fantastic; there was a lot of skill involved in both deck building and in-game play, and I had a lot of fun with it. We also had a nice range of competative decks which was nice, but not necessary to the format being fun. I would have enjoyed it regardless.

    This brings us to now and, again, I feel player skill is very important at the moment, ESPECIALLY due to Mewtwo EX which I find to be a very punishing card when played at inappropriate times. Game are won or lost based on when you bench a Mewtwo. It is a very, very decision-making intensive format, where small mistakes lose you games. This is something I love; I can't tell you how many improbable games I've won or seen won where the winner was chosen purely based on an opponent's misplay with a Mewtwo EX. This format is not forgiving of mistakes and as such I find it a very skill based format, which I enjoy.

    Of course, donks still exists, and you can still lose due to poor starts, but that's kinda just a universal aspect of Pokemon; luck is always a factor, but what matter is how much of a factor it is. I don't find it too pervasive right now, and I'm enjoying the format quite a bit.

    Of course, I think I'll like the Nats format even more, but that's a different discussion entirely!
     
  14. Sweet

    Sweet New Member

    Matter of opinion. If you don't want to play Durant . . . then play something that you think is more skillful. Just because you don't like a deck or a card, doesn't make it 'bad for the format (this is a mistake that a lot of people make).

    Durant is 3rd on winning the most tournaments (correct me if I'm wrong), so why run the troll deck (I think that's the right name) if you can run Durant. It takes so much less skill, is so much cheaper, and has a better winning record? There's where I see the problem.

    Cost is completely irrelevant. A card isn't bad for the game because it is expensive. Another mistake a lot of people make.

    I've known/talked to a lot of yu-gi-oh players. They all said that the worst part to yu-gi-oh was cost. Many of them quit/changed to something else for this reason. At least yu-gi-oh as better prizes to make up for this.

    There were lots of reasons why people played 2-2 Luxray (eg: because a Chomp start was prefered to a Lux start). If Machamp was that scary, how come Psychic Toxicroak G didn't get played that much?

    I thought Luxray start was better? Turn 2 Bright Look, Healing Breath was pointless turn two etc because Toxicroak wrecked other match ups, and Uxie Lv.X and Lucario GL were already there.

    Really? I don't remember it preventing variety during City Championships, where tournaments were won by Chandy, Magnezone, Reshiphlosion, ZPST, 6 Corners, Durant, CaKE, Truth variants, Donphan/Dragons . . . and a whole lot more.

    I loved that part of the game, that was a variety right there!

    For the record, I like the format. Cost is irrelevant when it comes to mewtwo and it takes quite a bit if skill to run any of the winning decks in this format. Knowing when to drop a mewtwo or what energy to discard with crushing hammer/lost remover takes some skill.

    Mewtwo EX taking skill is fair enough. But if you're telling me that it takes skill to know what to Lost Remover and Crushing Hammer, you can't be that experienced in the game (sorry if that sounded harsh!)

    In this format, Durant arguably requires more skill than any other deck to succeed, since you need to figure out your opponent's counter-Durant strategy and counter that. Aside from that, your comment is a value judgment, and therefore isn't very compelling.

    You think Durant is the most skillful deck at the moment? Wow. Give me an example then.

    I'll give you the cheap part, since that's what it handy. But the former is totally wrong. Garchomp was in A LOT of decks. Dialgachomp, Sablelock, and Gengar/Garchomp are all examples of decks running the Garchomp C line. It was pretty easy to put into a deck.

    A LOT = 3 huh?

    Gengar Garchomp was awful anyways.


    Huh. I thought it was because getting a prized Luxray GL Lvl. X and getting Sprayed on a Time Walk meant losing the game.

    1 in 10 games it will be prized. 1 in 2 games you'll be playing SP. Then there's the possibility of drawing it early on from a prize anyway. Do more statictics! Really worth it...? 3-1 Luxray was great for Gyarados.

    How so? Shuppet didn't distort the format in any way. I didn't recall seeing any Shuppet plagues going about, messing up people's games.

    It donked so much, that's why it was bad.

    Variety, as I regularly argue, is a weak argument for the healthiness of a format. Tons of people like the Gardevoir/Gallade format, and yet it ended up being a 1-3 deck format. I'm not going to defend or disparage Catcher, but to argue against it out of variety isn't sufficient because every format we hit a singularity.

    People hated the GG format?

    Why does it look promising? It's more large Basics, which seems sort of incongruous with your argument.

    Because there will be lots of testing to be done thus making things more fun.
     
  15. baby mario

    baby mario Front Page Article Editor<br><a href="http://pokeg

    Because you want the skill factor? Or not? It's up to you . . . no-one forces you to run Durant. Run Troll. Or Zek/Eels, or CMT . . . buy or trade for the cards you need. Simple.

    They were wrong. Cost is not the worst thing about YGO. Not by a long shot.

    Cost has nothing to do with how good a format is, or how much skill is involved. I thought that was your point?

    I'm not even sure what your point is about Luxchomp anymore.

    Yes! Variety WITH CATCHER IN THE FORMAT . . . y'know, the card that you claimed 'prevents' variety :rolleyes:

    No, it doesn't sound harsh, just a bit ignorant.

    If you're telling me that there is nothing more to Durant than Lost Remover and Crushing Hammer then I will start to wonder about your experience.
     
  16. derpy

    derpy New Member

    correction catcher isn't too good reversal broke the format catcher made it less luck based but they came out with cards to balence out the format
     
  17. jjkkl

    jjkkl Front Page Article Editor

    Replies in black. I don't appreciate your tone. It's obvious I should not have been involved in this thread.
     
  18. Miamisportsfan45

    Miamisportsfan45 New Member

    Made my points and responses in blue. I tried to make my points as detailed and understanding as possible. I can't say I agree with you on everything, but all-in-all, our metagame is constantly changing and we're always changing with it. It's not something we necessarily have any right to complain about. Whether we like the way it is at the moment or not isn't something that matters. Fact is there's still strategy involved in the game and it's changed drastically to prevent it from being repetitive and to shape new concepts or focuses to the game itself.
     
  19. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

    Current Format: its HGSS-on isn't it?

    Though at times it seems like Base all over again.
     
  20. ShadowGuard

    ShadowGuard <a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=

    I've seen players making masters semifinals at Regionals with Durant without even knowing what Mewtwo EX does before the tournament. And yes, there also were good players at the tournament. If that isn't a proof that Durant takes no skill, what else do you need?

    I agree that HS-NV was the best format we got in this season. Too bad CCs lost importance this year. =/

    You didn't play in the EX / delta seasons, did you? There were almost no donks, and thanks to the Holon Engine, bad starts were very rare in a well-built deck. And even if you got a slow starts, there weren't decks that rushed you from T1 on. There were lots of competitive, skill-based cards, you could make so many decks run.

    This format is based on Catcher. That may not be good, but you can't just ban Catcher. Other cards, like Reuniclus, would instantly become broken (well, at least, before Raikou EX hits the field). However I agree it's too strong, but maybe Junk Arm will be rotated soon, making Catcher a lot more balanced then.


    The format right isn't the best, no doubt. But looking at the upcoming sets, I think it will get better. Both Dark Explorer and the dragon sets have some interesting cards that hurt Mewtwo EX. Dark Explorers may give non-Vileplume evolution a chance again (Empoleon etc). The dragon set has some interesting skill cards.
     
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