dialga master
Member
The formats fine. Come back. Just about the same as LuxChomp format but I kinda like it a little more.
Did anyone else quit because of mewtwo ex?
- Thread starter Blahmon
- Start date
vaporeon
Moderator
@ Charranitar
It's not something you can just dismiss. The dark deck is a threat. The fact the the card designers don't put restraints on how cards should be made is also a threat to the overall game.
This set should have tool scrapper in it. NEX should have had the Heatmoar that kills durants. It's like they refuse to put built in counters into their sets. It's bad for the game and now we must wait another 3 or so months just to get a counter to tools, if we even get it.
Sure, dark decks have a hard time against fighting decks but its not that big a deal to them. Dark decks can handle fighting decks as well as zekrom/eels can.
It's not something you can just dismiss. The dark deck is a threat. The fact the the card designers don't put restraints on how cards should be made is also a threat to the overall game.
This set should have tool scrapper in it. NEX should have had the Heatmoar that kills durants. It's like they refuse to put built in counters into their sets. It's bad for the game and now we must wait another 3 or so months just to get a counter to tools, if we even get it.
Sure, dark decks have a hard time against fighting decks but its not that big a deal to them. Dark decks can handle fighting decks as well as zekrom/eels can.
no. We had sooo many playable decks that were very diverse back then.
Now it's all EXs or play a less consistent deck to try and counter them.
Vulpix Yolk
New Member
Everyone always complains about something. When someone can't adjust to a format, it really just boils down to them being worse players than they thought they were. Adjusting is part of the game, and if you can't handle that, you might as well quit. The format we have right now is just fine, Mewtwo is not a problem, just something unskilled players can't beat. No offensive to anyone saying they quit because of Mewtwo, I'm just guessing you never got to test with, or against it. Practice makes perfect, and you will get used to Mewtwo and grow to respect it as a card if you give it a chance.
TheRolesWePlay
New Member
First you complain about big basics ruining the format, then when an evolved Pokemon comes along that has a reasonable chance of giving some of said decks a run for their money, then you start complaining about that?
Also there are restraints on the card, for starters its energy acceleration is limited (since Dark Patch is a trainer), it has a damage cap of 140 (with a tool), and it requires a full bench of :dark: Pokemon. That's plenty of drawbacks IMO.
vaporeon
Moderator
I'm not complaining. Forgive me for having a love for the game and it pains me to see the game going the way it is. Forgive me for wanting the game to by enjoyable for everyone and not just the elitist. Forgive me for wanting things to change for the better. I've been waiting for about 8 years now for a good format to come and I'm still waiting.
They are fixing broken by making cards more broken then the last. If you don't see that as a problem, then I don't know what to say.
baby mario
Front Page Article Editor<br><a href="http://pokeg
What they are actually doing is simplifying the game and making it easier for new/younger players (first turn rules, big Basics, fast format). An elitist would want a more complicated game that would make it more difficult for new/less skilled player to succeed.
It's the people who want a return to long drawn out battles between uber-combo lists that take huge skill to build properly who are the elitists.
Two things:
1. A change that would make the game better for me, or vaporeon, or any other individual would not necessarily be good for the game as a whole.
2. Pokemon are making the game that they want to make. They aren't being lazy or stupid just because they aren't creating your (general 'your') ideal format.
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vaporeon
Moderator
They thing is I'm not the only one who feels this way. The whole reason for the rotation was to slow the game down but BW messed that all up. A long drawn out battle is better for the game and on the skill side. The game was easy to play then and it is now.
baby mario
Front Page Article Editor<br><a href="http://pokeg
Of course you're not. Some people will agree, some won't, and some will just get on with it and play.
That's not the reason that was given by TPCI
http://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-news/op_2011_rotation-2011-06-08/
They mention 'fun', 'positive', 'fair' and 'balanced', but there is not one word about 'slowing the game down'. That bit comes entirely from you and your own interpretation. You are putting words into TPCI's mouth.
A long game does not necessarily mean a more skillful game. It can mean a tedious game.
Easy to play seems to be something that Pokemon actually wants . . . why else would they change the first turn rules?
vaporeon
Moderator
Anyone can say what they want in regards for something like this. They say they want fun, positive and balanced game. They rotated because turn 1 kills were bad and the game was too fast. You know who else put out false clams? I wonder how many other people will say what people want to hear during the 2012 elections.
The game is not fun or balanced right now. Other card games can go the easy to play route because their game mechanics allow for it. In Pokemon, you can't respond to actions during your opponents turn. We play best of one in swiss where you can lose to a donk. Pokemon is a game that should not have an aggressive early game.
The game is not fun or balanced right now. Other card games can go the easy to play route because their game mechanics allow for it. In Pokemon, you can't respond to actions during your opponents turn. We play best of one in swiss where you can lose to a donk. Pokemon is a game that should not have an aggressive early game.
Unfallible
New Member
If you have to face a deck that does 140 damage on turn 2, then you build a deck that does 150 damage. It's that simple.
@vaporeon
Donks are not as unhealthy for the game as you seem to think they are. Although being donked is never fun, it's no different from a game where a player gains a huge advantage at a given point in the game (critical points). The only difference is the amount of time between the critical point and the end. When you get donked, the game ends immediately. In a game without donks you might wait another 30 minutes before the game ended, even though the outcome had already been decided (assuming that the losing player didn't just scoop.) This would actually be incredibly boring for the winning player, just because he can't scoop. In that sense I would say that donks may even be healthy. You seem to think that critical moments in a game of Pokemon should come later, but that is (as several people have already mentioned) purely a matter of opinion. However if you think that a short game is shallow, then you are most certainly wrong. Look at rock paper scissors for example. You could learn how to play, and then play a best of 5 match in three minutes, yet the game is incredibly deep. As an aside, you criticized our tournament structure for its best of 1 swiss rounds in a game with donks. I think it's worth noting that we play swiss because of donks...
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vaporeon
Moderator
I'm well aware of game changing plays but you can't relate them to donks. If players new to the game lose before they even get a turn, those players may not stay. Sure the games rules allow for donks but those rules were made and were use in many formats where OHKOs were almost unheard of. Donks in best of 1 swiss is incredibly unhealthy for the game. If you get donked in round 1 and/or even round 2, your tournament is over. Tournament formats should have safeguards against them.
It's just bad game design. Bad rules with a bad power creep is bad for the game, especially the fact they choose to not enforce a ban list, which games make and use to balance the game.
It's just bad game design. Bad rules with a bad power creep is bad for the game, especially the fact they choose to not enforce a ban list, which games make and use to balance the game.
baby mario
Front Page Article Editor<br><a href="http://pokeg
Rubbish.
TPCI have NEVER given that explanation for the rotation. That's just your assumption. Where is your EVIDENCE that their claim was false? How do YOU know what was in their minds? Did they consult you? Did you hear their discussions? Of course you didn't
Because, y'know without evidence, it's all in your head and you have no right to accuse TPCI of making false claims.
Matter of opinion.
Statement too generalised to be meaningful.
That's one of the things that keeps the game simple.
Why not? Again, matter of opinion. It seems pretty clear that Pokemon don't mind having donks in the game. They are not stupid . . . they know what the cards will do and they print them anyway because they want this to be a part of the game
AlmightyGoldenGarchomp
Member
Mewtwo-EX is a card that has definitely changed the game, but not necessarily in a bad way. I've been in this game for some time, and I would have to say that yes, there have been much better formats, but there have also been much worse ones as well. Some argue that the current metagame requires almost no skill to win at, but that may not be necessarily true. I would say that the biggest problem with Mewtwo is that it is so expensive and almost required to win, but this is a company out for profit here, and it makes sense to have expensive cards. It is not as expensive as some cards in other games (*cough* Tourguide from the Underworld *cough*), and I think that the vast majority of the people out there serious about the game can afford one at the very least, so price isn't a huge object here. As for cutting the amount of skill needed, that may not be entirely true. I know that I for one have lost games because I left that Mewtwo on the bench with 2 energy after pulling off some complex move, only to have it KO'd the next turn. It takes skill to avoid Mewtwo (which I lack), it takes skill to build the right deck around Mewtwo, and it takes skill to operate Mewtwo in a game-to-game basis. One thing that Mewtwo may do is speed up the game, but is that really a bad thing? I think not. It is just another part of a constantly changing metagame. We'll have slow, thought out battles soon enough I'm sure. Even so, Mewtwo itself doesn't really speed up the game alone. ZPS was around long before M2, it was fast, and Dark.dek is still fast without it as well.
tl;dr: Mewtwo-EX is not a reason to quit this awesome game, it is just a big part of a faster metagame that still requires skill to play well in and will change soon enough if you don't like it.
Just my honest opinion.
tl;dr: Mewtwo-EX is not a reason to quit this awesome game, it is just a big part of a faster metagame that still requires skill to play well in and will change soon enough if you don't like it.
Just my honest opinion.
vaporeon
Moderator
Rubbish.
TPCI have NEVER given that explanation for the rotation. That's just your assumption. Where is your EVIDENCE that their claim was false? How do YOU know what was in their minds? Did they consult you? Did you hear their discussions? Of course you didn't
Because, y'know without evidence, it's all in your head and you have no right to accuse TPCI of making false claims.
Matter of opinion.
Statement too generalised to be meaningful.
That's one of the things that keeps the game simple.
Why not? Again, matter of opinion. It seems pretty clear that Pokemon don't mind having donks in the game. They are not stupid . . . they know what the cards will do and they print them anyway because they want this to be a part of the game
Well, talking to you will not work if you just dismiss everything.
vaporeon
Moderator
That may be so but I don't dismiss everything. I'm trying to defend the games and talk about whats wrong with it while others don't see a problem.
maybe because there isn't a problem?
baby mario
Front Page Article Editor<br><a href="http://pokeg
I never said I didn't see a problem. I never said I saw one either.
I said two things:
1. There is no EVIDENCE that the early rotation was intended to slow the game down.
and
2. Everything that Pokemon has done suggests that they want to simplify the game and make it faster. (First turn rules, printing fast attackers that can donk). You seem to think they do this out of ignorance and have no idea what effect a card like Tornadus-EX or Dark Patch will have on the game. That just seems beyond ridiculous to me.