yes, because homosexuality = pedophelia.
DumbleDONE?????
- Thread starter Vegeta ss4
- Start date
yes, because homosexuality = pedophelia.
SuperWooper
New Member
Yeah, that about sums it up.
Can we lock this before the "You can choose to be straight/*** (goooo censors!)" debate gets out of hand? =/
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The_Envoy_of_Chaos
New Member
May I enquire as to why you believe that a person CAN'T choose their own sexuality?
you're born *** or straight
Wow are there actually people that still believe you choose to be ***? lol
The only choice you can make if you're a homosexual is whether or not to live homosexually. As in relations with the same sex. Why are there so many married *** men? Because they're trying to be something they're not. They attempt to choose what sex they are attracted to.
On topic:
Dumbledore being *** doesn't really matter to me. I can see why it would other people though.
Wow are there actually people that still believe you choose to be ***? lol
The only choice you can make if you're a homosexual is whether or not to live homosexually. As in relations with the same sex. Why are there so many married *** men? Because they're trying to be something they're not. They attempt to choose what sex they are attracted to.
On topic:
Dumbledore being *** doesn't really matter to me. I can see why it would other people though.
vanderbilt_grad
New Member
Let me be perfectly clear here.
For a long time the idea of choosing whether or not you are *** has been used as an ... ideological club ... for lack of a better term ... to castigate *** people and the "*** lifestyle." It’s pretty understandable why this was done too. For many people the idea of individual choice is a major keystone of their faith or ideology.
So it is also perfectly understandable that many other folks would cling just as hard to recent research and personal experience indicating that sexuality is an inborn predisposition. It fits their experience or worldview and is a natural reaction to being beat down for "making an immoral choice" or something similar.
The problem is that the world is rarely black and white, especially when you are dealing with the human brain. Some things exist on a spectrum. Think height or raw IQ for example. Some people are tall and others are short. There aren’t just tall people and short people though, there are all sorts of folks of different heights in-between the two extremes. There are things that are generally one or the other. Certain inherited genetic things like whether or not you have Down's syndrome for example. However even in this example there is variation. While you either have Down's or not, how extreme the expression is varies from affected individual to another.
This is IMHO, but gender preference isn’t exactly like either of those cases. Biology is a huge factor. There are many people who will be born straight or *** who are tightly bound by their biochemistry and have little or no choice about their preferences. However there are other people who express their biological preference to a lesser degree. These folks, for lack of a better idiom, do get to "choose" their preferences.
Men are on average taller than women, but there are plenty of tall women and short men who do not fit those averages very well. So too there are "straight" folks who are really straight and those who are more ... flexible. I don’t think that we really have a good handle on gender related things either scientifically or culturally yet largely because it is such a highly charged issue and one that is so influenced by culture and religion. It might be that there are few "exceptions" to biological predisposition or it might be that the folks with less choice are the real minorities. It’s too early to tell IMHO. Individual experience is so limited and much of the science is usually pretty biased in one direction or another at this point. But hopefully in time we will have a better idea.
Now, back to the book.
I can see why Dumbledoor’s sexuality isn’t mentioned in the books. It’s a non-factor since it has literally no bearing on Harry’s life or quests. This is the Harry Potter series after all, not the Dumbledoor’s Life and Legacy series. I do applaud her for letting us know though. It’s a brave stand given how negative some of the response is bound to be.
For a long time the idea of choosing whether or not you are *** has been used as an ... ideological club ... for lack of a better term ... to castigate *** people and the "*** lifestyle." It’s pretty understandable why this was done too. For many people the idea of individual choice is a major keystone of their faith or ideology.
So it is also perfectly understandable that many other folks would cling just as hard to recent research and personal experience indicating that sexuality is an inborn predisposition. It fits their experience or worldview and is a natural reaction to being beat down for "making an immoral choice" or something similar.
The problem is that the world is rarely black and white, especially when you are dealing with the human brain. Some things exist on a spectrum. Think height or raw IQ for example. Some people are tall and others are short. There aren’t just tall people and short people though, there are all sorts of folks of different heights in-between the two extremes. There are things that are generally one or the other. Certain inherited genetic things like whether or not you have Down's syndrome for example. However even in this example there is variation. While you either have Down's or not, how extreme the expression is varies from affected individual to another.
This is IMHO, but gender preference isn’t exactly like either of those cases. Biology is a huge factor. There are many people who will be born straight or *** who are tightly bound by their biochemistry and have little or no choice about their preferences. However there are other people who express their biological preference to a lesser degree. These folks, for lack of a better idiom, do get to "choose" their preferences.
Men are on average taller than women, but there are plenty of tall women and short men who do not fit those averages very well. So too there are "straight" folks who are really straight and those who are more ... flexible. I don’t think that we really have a good handle on gender related things either scientifically or culturally yet largely because it is such a highly charged issue and one that is so influenced by culture and religion. It might be that there are few "exceptions" to biological predisposition or it might be that the folks with less choice are the real minorities. It’s too early to tell IMHO. Individual experience is so limited and much of the science is usually pretty biased in one direction or another at this point. But hopefully in time we will have a better idea.
Now, back to the book.
I can see why Dumbledoor’s sexuality isn’t mentioned in the books. It’s a non-factor since it has literally no bearing on Harry’s life or quests. This is the Harry Potter series after all, not the Dumbledoor’s Life and Legacy series. I do applaud her for letting us know though. It’s a brave stand given how negative some of the response is bound to be.
Sexuality is a spectrum, but that doesn't mean you "choose" it. It merely means that you don't lie on an extreme of the spectrum. If you can work yourself up and "change" it, then all it means is that you were bisexual-leaning enough to begin with to make it work. The rest of that post looks about accurate, though.
This reminds me of the fate vs freewill debate....
In much of the history of traditional wizardry literature, the wizard is ambivalent when it comes to sexuality (Gandalf, for example). Also, Merlin was essentially asexual (as was his conception) until he became involved with Niniane, and then ended up defunct. The sexual digression was more of a metaphor of his (and his type of magic) leaving the world to the more political, earthy nature that Arthur's Age represented. Sometimes the magician (not necessarily a wizard - perhaps the pinnacle of ethereality possible in human form) will use sexuality as a means to an end, as did Niniane, rather than the enactment of a biological imperative. Somehow, they have chosen to remove themselves from the mammalian and romantic aspect of their natures to serve other purposes, nothing to do with family and personal intimacy.
Dumbledore follows the same archetype. Dumbledore's sexuality seems very much related to his mentality (a magician's trait). That he is attracted to another with strong mentality is no wonder. I think the same-sex interest would not be as strong as an equivalent-mentality interest. If there was a female character in his past with the same mentality, the interest would be there too methinks. That there isn't would make it seem that Dumbledore is only interested in the same sex, as it's likely that he is typical of the wizard's ilk and is generally asexual, though strongly aroused through mental chemistry - and why his love remains unrequited. Dumbledore is attracted to the world of ideas and magic, the not-human that Grindelwald represented most strongly to him. The "***" tag is perhaps only how muggles would make sense of the relationship.
In much of the history of traditional wizardry literature, the wizard is ambivalent when it comes to sexuality (Gandalf, for example). Also, Merlin was essentially asexual (as was his conception) until he became involved with Niniane, and then ended up defunct. The sexual digression was more of a metaphor of his (and his type of magic) leaving the world to the more political, earthy nature that Arthur's Age represented. Sometimes the magician (not necessarily a wizard - perhaps the pinnacle of ethereality possible in human form) will use sexuality as a means to an end, as did Niniane, rather than the enactment of a biological imperative. Somehow, they have chosen to remove themselves from the mammalian and romantic aspect of their natures to serve other purposes, nothing to do with family and personal intimacy.
Dumbledore follows the same archetype. Dumbledore's sexuality seems very much related to his mentality (a magician's trait). That he is attracted to another with strong mentality is no wonder. I think the same-sex interest would not be as strong as an equivalent-mentality interest. If there was a female character in his past with the same mentality, the interest would be there too methinks. That there isn't would make it seem that Dumbledore is only interested in the same sex, as it's likely that he is typical of the wizard's ilk and is generally asexual, though strongly aroused through mental chemistry - and why his love remains unrequited. Dumbledore is attracted to the world of ideas and magic, the not-human that Grindelwald represented most strongly to him. The "***" tag is perhaps only how muggles would make sense of the relationship.
vanderbilt_grad pretty much said what I was trying to say. When I raised this issue of people choosing their sexuality, it was more because people shouldn't assume things in what is already a very sensitive issue. Anyone pretending that to know of a definitive answer one way or the other is talking absolute crap, and this thread proves it. Some people claim they can't control their sexuality, and I claim that people can.
Anyway, far more interesting was what Zegnarfol said. If Dumbledore had such a profound respect for the intellectual talents of Grindelwald (and that was the only basis of his love for him), does that actually make him ***?
PS: One question for Buddhists (were is 'mom when you need her?): In the state of Nirvana, I presume you are essentially assexual right?
PPS: Why exactly is crap uncensored, but *** is?
Anyway, far more interesting was what Zegnarfol said. If Dumbledore had such a profound respect for the intellectual talents of Grindelwald (and that was the only basis of his love for him), does that actually make him ***?
PS: One question for Buddhists (were is 'mom when you need her?): In the state of Nirvana, I presume you are essentially assexual right?
PPS: Why exactly is crap uncensored, but *** is?
The Captain
New Member
whose *** in american beauty? is it the dad? because everyone else is deffinatly straight.
Also i'm going to stay out of this issue to to personal biasses.