Empoleon/Infernape - One of the many revelations of Worlds 2007

[Prime]

No, I don't think this spam. The topic has naturally gone in this direction, and as long as it ends up coming back on track, it is fine.

fair enough, that you did
i believe it was fairly original, and using mario as a counter point hardly seems fair
one could use that idiology to say LBS spun off from metanite
one searches and set you up while the other supplies energy
and both are dual stage twos
mario isnt a good reference point IMHO

I'm not saying the decks were played the same or had everything in common, but it did have a few things in common:

1. Both decks ran (1) stage 2 pokemon and (1) stage 1 pokemon.
2. Both decks ran little to no starter pokemon.
3. Both decks lacked any poke-bodies or poke-powers.
4. Both decks ran Cessation crystal.
5. Both decks had pokemon that could snipe the bench in some way.

Now I feel Ambush pulled off the sniping so much better than Mario, but there was no other deck in the format that looked like Ambush more than Mario.

however, we are the forefront of deck creation, the head creators of new and original ideas, and our decks often show up in other countries, with vastly different metagames, and are used around the world

I feel one reason we hear so much about american-made decks and so little about international-made decks is because unlike many countries in the world, most of the americans only speak one language. We can't go onto foreign forums and understand what they are saying. That is saying, if there WERE international forums. I think you'd find that there are very few international forums to even go onto. But there is plenty of deck making in those countries, we just don't hear about it unless it wins their nationals or something. For all we know, some international player could have come up with some of our archetypes before we did, but we didn't find out it until much later.

But you are right to a point. Americans do come up with some of the best ideas in this game and their ideas to circle the globe and affect many countries. But at the same time, the united states has the biggest player base in the world. So more minds = more ideas.

bold: we got dp right before br's,and the deck was already bieng developed
the only reason i suspect it wasnt used is because no one wanted to reveal it at a mere battle road

I don't know what you are talking about. Are you talking about Ambush being developed right before br's?

who knows, but i dont doupt it at all
and ideas from japan will naturally happen, considering they get their sets 40 years before us =/

Pretty much

 

[celeni]

when it comes to japanese players most of their decks, minus the notable few, actually come from theme decks, half decks and other special pokemon card packs. we are only recently getting these things. they have been getting them for years. even if not than why have theme decks been a major showing and half of their other decks come from buying multiple half decks containing their needed cards. thats all i am saying is that no matter how intelligent or ingenious, you got to remember they are people too. may be a little more canibalization happens to win tournaments but thats its own story. what i mean is ideas are practically given to them at least once in a while, where as for us we have to make everything up unless the combo was obvious like metagross d and dragonite d of last year. dark dragonite and dark electrode before it, as well as ludicolo DX and magcargo DX spanning that time.

 

[PSYCO829]

No, I don't think this spam. The topic has naturally gone in this direction, and as long as it ends up coming back on track, it is fine.

k, fair enough

I'm not saying the decks were played the same or had everything in common, but it did have a few things in common:

1. Both decks ran (1) stage 2 pokemon and (1) stage 1 pokemon.
2. Both decks ran little to no starter pokemon.
3. Both decks lacked any poke-bodies or poke-powers.
4. Both decks ran Cessation crystal.
5. Both decks had pokemon that could snipe the bench in some way.

Now I feel Ambush pulled off the sniping so much better than Mario, but there was no other deck in the format that looked like Ambush more than Mario.

the general idea list looks a little alike, but i believe the resemblence ends there
empoleon was used as the main attacker of the deck, and the idea was to spread damage and fall behind on prizes while bieng ahead with damage, allowing you to abuse scramble with marowak and empoleon to take multible prizes

mario was more of an aggro deck designed to go berzerk on your opponent t1 onwards, hopegully killing them before they set up

if anything, i think delta was more of an inspiration than mario was (damage spread, prize manipulation, and no powers with cc added)

I feel one reason we hear so much about american-made decks and so little about international-made decks is because unlike many countries in the world, most of the americans only speak one language. We can't go onto foreign forums and understand what they are saying. That is saying, if there WERE international forums. I think you'd find that there are very few international forums to even go onto. But there is plenty of deck making in those countries, we just don't hear about it unless it wins their nationals or something. For all we know, some international player could have come up with some of our archetypes before we did, but we didn't find out it until much later.

But you are right to a point. Americans do come up with some of the best ideas in this game and their ideas to circle the globe and affect many countries. But at the same time, the united states has the biggest player base in the world. So more minds = more ideas.

first paragraph: you make a fair point with that, ecspececially with the whole language barrier part
for the most part, i mean our tournoment winning decks become popular because they won here
lets be honest, america is the hardest metagame in the world for our format. it may sound arrogant or foolhardy, but with the most amount of players, and the least invite spread ratio going to them, getting into worlds and winnign major tournoments gives us a compatition level not found anywhere else in the world
still you do make a point, we dont know if some one else makes decks like ours, i was quite shocked to find out the indonesian national champ used a deck that i created for fl states, and his list was only 3 cards off from mine
quite shocking really...

second paragraph: agreed

I don't know what you are talking about. Are you talking about Ambush being developed right before br's?

yes, it was
i heard talk about it bieng combo'd with roserade before hand, then being switched around between raichu d and marowak d, with corsola uf also bieng considered
in the end, they dropped roserade for insufficient type coverage, and went with marowak
i do not know why raichu wasnt used, perhaps marowak simply did damage spread better

Pretty much

i was quite sad to hear that my brilliant lati deck i came up with was already an archetype in japan, and that i wasnt as original as i thought
quite saddening really...

 

[Prime]

PSYCO, don't let that information get you down. You still came up with the same idea without any help from outside sources. You can't take 100% credit for it, but you can feel good about yourself that you stumbled upon the same good idea too. It shows you aren't a bad deck maker or anything.

 

[Blueblue]

Just wondering why did you skip speed spread? Played 2 games against Yamato in the semi final& one variation in fift round going 3-0... Wouldn´t say the matchup would be 100-0, but 70-30 at least for speed spread. I´ve never seen a single US list of speedspread, but i ran 4 windstorms&2 rayquazas, that make the matchup quite favorable for spread.

 

[rhodesia123]

Just wondering why did you skip speed spread? Played 2 games against Yamato in the semi final& one variation in fift round going 3-0... Wouldn´t say the matchup would be 100-0, but 70-30 at least for speed spread. I´ve never seen a single US list of speedspread, but i ran 4 windstorms&2 rayquazas, that make the matchup quite favorable for spread.

hey dude can you post a worlds report?

 

[Pablo]

Absolutions 70 - 30

A very good matchup I believe, as Absolutiosn has trouble with all of the decks main components: high HP non ex Pokemon, Cursed Stone and the decks extras: Cessation Crystal and Infernape dealing OHKO's. Absolutions has a hard time drawing into its Windstorms, and playing only 3 doesn't make it any easier, so Cursed Stones and Cessations can stay a long while. Giant Stump helps Absolutions alot in this matchup, but with Empoleon only having to KO 3 ex Pokemon basically and non of them being safe on the bench, I think it may be a bit higher than 70-30. Definately a very favourable matchup.

Its the first matchup I listed. If you posted your insight into why you think its so balanced in your favor, it would be great.

 

[Pika-Pat]

nice

nice:thumb::thumb:

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