Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Format for Worlds 2005

Adv1sor said:
Luck is a huge factor in sealed deck, although deck building skill also comes into play. Luck is much less a factor in draft.

Everyone gets six first choices in draft. You would be very lucky indeed to see Zapados ex and two Raichus. There is only one type of Pikachu in this format, but it is a common with a poor attack and so would probably make it around the table. (Unless anyone else opened a Raichu.)

You are right. In draft, if you draft evolutions without the basics or stage ones you will not win. But is this not where the skill factor comes in? In knowing which card to take and what cards to pass?

Knowing that, for example, there are two types of Bulbasaur and two types of Charmander in FR/LG, all commons, I might pass up a rare like Exeggutor or Fearow in favor of an uncommon like Ivysaur or Charmeleon as I would have a better chance of getting the basics in multiples.

All but one of the trainer cards in FR/LG are uncommons. So even if you open that Zapdos ex your chances of seeing him in a game are slim. Of course I’d draft him anyway :) But this does help to reduce the role of luck in the outcome of the tournament.

If POP is going to sanction three formats, then Worlds Champion should be a master of all three, and I think that this may be what we see in 2005.
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In the FRLG Prerelease I've a 2/2/1 Pidgeot Line, a Zappy Ex and a 2/1 Raichu Line[also I add Dugtrio and Raticate] XD But I did't gen any Trainer =/[Only a Reversal that all the times I played get tails XD]
 
SHPanda said:
No, I didn't play in any side events at worlds, because I was too busy playing in the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP..
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Wow, you played in the world championship. So did i, and about 130 other people.I mean congrats, but you shouldn't sound so arrogant about it.



SHPanda said:
He obviously isn't one of the best deckbuilder on the planet if he didn't even come close to winning a Limited tourny, unless it was sealed deck. As for your daughter, congrats for getting top 4, but all pre-release comes down to is, who is luckier at opening good packs.
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Yes, genious, he is talking about sealed. That is the point Voltorb and i are trying to make. As for my deckbuilding skills, I'd love to give you a game whenever you'd like.




SHPanda said:
First of all i to play Mtg competitly and I don't like it when you say it like its an insult. Think before you say something. As for "the powers that be" agreeing with you as for worlds being only modified this year, yes that correct, but this discussion is about next year, and next year I highly doubt that they will make worlds a modified only event.
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That explains a lot . I haven't met too many "competitive" mtg players i care for and you are no exception. And i could care less what you like. I didn't mean it as an insult. If you took it that way then that's your problem - not mine. I meant that I prefer constructed over draft or sealed and i hope Pokemon's formats stay as they are. I think about everything i say -do you?And if your correct and next years worlds are a multi format then i'll deal with it.
 
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It would be fun to play in a "serious" Unlimited tournament. It would be really hard to do something like that at Worlds (at the same time the Modified championship would be taking place), but how about having it at Gencon (assuming that Gencon isn't on the same weekend as Worlds 2005)?

For limited, here's what I would like to see. Everybody gets a theme pack. But instead of boosters, Nintendo has all the Modified Trainer cards available for modifying those theme decks. Everybody is required to use all the Pokemon out of the theme decks, but they can change the energy and trainers to whatever they want. (Good luck to Nintendo in getting all the Celio's and Steven's back at the end of the tourney though!)
 
I like how all the terrible people post for the good people. Most good people know that draft is the most challenging format for skill. You cannot use the excuse of bad packs because everyone picks from the same packs. You play the people in your pod not others. It is simply whoever knows what they are doing wins. Bad people can't get lucky and don't like this. Nintendo is paying for this so the cost cannot be that high. Especially if they used it for top XX. I do think that top 8 should be MF though.
 
JediDrew said:
I like how all the terrible people post for the good people. Most good people know that draft is the most challenging format for skill. You cannot use the excuse of bad packs because everyone picks from the same packs. You play the people in your pod not others. It is simply whoever knows what they are doing wins. Bad people can't get lucky and don't like this. Nintendo is paying for this so the cost cannot be that high. Especially if they used it for top XX. I do think that top 8 should be MF though.
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Exactly, thats what I've been saying.

Sniper, if you wanna play a game on apprentice I'm all for it. If you have aim just send me a PM.
 
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JediDrew said:
I like how all the terrible people post for the good people. Most good people know that draft is the most challenging format for skill. You cannot use the excuse of bad packs because everyone picks from the same packs. You play the people in your pod not others. It is simply whoever knows what they are doing wins. Bad people can't get lucky and don't like this. Nintendo is paying for this so the cost cannot be that high. Especially if they used it for top XX. I do think that top 8 should be MF though.
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I don't dispute what is said here ( about the skill factor in draft) and i apoligize if i said otherwise. I hate playing sealed competitively but your right about drafting being a skillfull format.
But it is an expensive format that we don't do or enjoy where we play. That's just
my opinion and that really doesn't matter now does it?If it is implemented into worlds 2005
then we'll deal with it. My point was I prefer modified .So do most of the people i play with.

SHPanda, sorry for being a jerk.Most of what you said was correct. My personal opinion doesn't change that.And i really didn't mean to insult you earlier.
 
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Sniper, if you wanna play a game on apprentice I'm all for it. If you have aim just send me a PM.[/QUOTE]



I'll take you up on that some time.
 
Sealed is awful. Now that is totally luck. It should NEVER be used competivly. Its only used at PreRelease so bad kids can win and arent discouraged by getting killed by good players.
 
I agree 100% with what Drew says. Draft is amazing, and requires a large amount of skill. As for Rainbowgyms comment...its the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP. Anyone at that level should know what all the cards do by now. Worst case scenario, increase time between picks in order to give foreign players the option to ask what a card is. If your good enough to qualify for worlds, asking you to know the cards is no problem. If your allowed to use cards of all language in the tournament anyways, you can draft them. Deal with it.

Sealed is horrible of course. Don't get me started on it. Proper deck building can apply but it doesn't help enough as bomb cards win easier. Draft is a whole different story. I was against Draft in the beginning too...than I played in it and repeatedly did well. So did all the other good players, and it became apparent through my better understanding of the theory of the format, plus repeated results, that skill does always prevail.
 
As for Rainbowgyms comment...its the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP. Anyone at that level should know what all the cards do by now.
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Most of them will know all the cards, but still for child of 8,9 or over 11 years old draft is difficult.
I also said if the set is announced before you can learn all the cards or at least try to.

Also you need to practise and that is expensive.
If you have to play a format at Worlds which you are only able to practise by investing a lot of money than I don't think it should be played..
 
Adv1sor said:
Luck is a huge factor in sealed deck, although deck building skill also comes into play. Luck is much less a factor in draft.

Everyone gets six first choices in draft. You would be very lucky indeed to see Zapados ex and two Raichus. There is only one type of Pikachu in this format, but it is a common with a poor attack and so would probably make it around the table. (Unless anyone else opened a Raichu.)
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But any way you slice it, draft still doesn't give each player equal access to the same cards. Each time we open a pack and get a first choice, we're not looking at the same cards. It may be an incredibly lucky occurrence, but you could indeed open a Zappy ex and two Raichus while the packs I get my first choices from don't have anything nearly as good. It's all in the luck of the pack.

In Constructed, what you choose to put in your deck doesn't hinder me from putting what I want in my deck. We can both do our best and then see whose "best" wins. That's the only way to really tell who is the better player.



You are right. In draft, if you draft evolutions without the basics or stage ones you will not win. But is this not where the skill factor comes in? In knowing which card to take and what cards to pass?

Knowing that, for example, there are two types of Bulbasaur and two types of Charmander in FR/LG, all commons, I might pass up a rare like Exeggutor or Fearow in favor of an uncommon like Ivysaur or Charmeleon as I would have a better chance of getting the basics in multiples.
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But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that Bulbasaurs and Charmanders are commons, so an Ivysaur or Charmeleon is a good snag IF YOU SEE ONE.

Anybody with any clue at all about how to play this game will know that search/draw Trainers are gold, so grab one IF YOU SEE ONE.

See the pattern yet? Knowing what to do and getting the material to do it with are two entirely different things. Again, it just all depends on what's in your packs.



If POP is going to sanction three formats, then Worlds Champion should be a master of all three, and I think that this may be what we see in 2005.
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I disagree. The World Champion should be the best player. That determination should be made using the format that pits me at my best against you at your best. Take pack luck completely out of the equation. You build exactly what you want within the rules and I'll build exactly what I want within the rules. Then and only then can we tell who's really the better player.
 
Voltorb43 said:
But any way you slice it, draft still doesn't give each player equal access to the same cards. Each time we open a pack and get a first choice, we're not looking at the same cards. It may be an incredibly lucky occurrence, but you could indeed open a Zappy ex and two Raichus while the packs I get my first choices from don't have anything nearly as good. It's all in the luck of the pack.

In Constructed, what you choose to put in your deck doesn't hinder me from putting what I want in my deck. We can both do our best and then see whose "best" wins. That's the only way to really tell who is the better player.






But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that Bulbasaurs and Charmanders are commons, so an Ivysaur or Charmeleon is a good snag IF YOU SEE ONE.

Anybody with any clue at all about how to play this game will know that search/draw Trainers are gold, so grab one IF YOU SEE ONE.

See the pattern yet? Knowing what to do and getting the material to do it with are two entirely different things. Again, it just all depends on what's in your packs.





I disagree. The World Champion should be the best player. That determination should be made using the format that pits me at my best against you at your best. Take pack luck completely out of the equation. You build exactly what you want within the rules and I'll build exactly what I want within the rules. Then and only then can we tell who's really the better player.
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Well said, Bob.
 
Voltorb43 said:
The World Champion should be the best player.
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The best player should be the one who is master of all three formats.

However, as the Sniper has said, whatever POP decides to do in this new season, we'll deal with it.

Things change.
 
pointing out the weaknesses in draft isn't quite the same thing as demonstrating that constructed is the most skilled format.

Consider this: A skilled player takes a shiftry deck to worlds. Comes up against lots of Magma decks and looses easily due to weakness. Not much of a test of that players skill is it?

[ Aside:I could anticipate a Worlds format that is still modified constructed but you have to take two decks, both players start with their first choice deck but can switch for subsequent games in match play. but I don't think it is likely]
 
NoPoke said:
pointing out the weaknesses in draft isn't quite the same thing as demonstrating that constructed is the most skilled format.

Consider this: A skilled player takes a shiftry deck to worlds. Comes up against lots of Magma decks and looses easily due to weakness. Not much of a test of that players skill is it?
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Some have tried to twist my words around and portray me as saying that there is no luck in Modified. Anybody with any clue at all knows that's not the case. There is plenty of luck in Modified--coin flips, what cards you draw and what kind of decks you get matched up against for starters.

All I've said is that draft is NOT a level playing field because not all players have equal access to the same cards. There is a huge ADDITIONAL element of luck in draft--that being what's in your packs. Therefore, Constructed is the more skilled format simply because there is less luck involved.

I would suggest that part of being a skilled player is keeping up with the metagame and knowing what kind of decks you are likely to come up against. Also a HUGE part of deckbuilding skill is covering your weakness and teching against the kind of deck that's most likely to give you trouble. For example, a highly Poke-Power based deck should include Wobbuffet as tech against Muk.

I can see and appreciate the argument that the World Champ should demonstrate mastery of all three formats, but I just don't buy it. The World Champ should be the best player, period. When my 12-year-old can tie Chris Bianchi in a Limited event, that's all the proof I need to know that Limited is NOT a true test of a player's skill. It should have no place at all in determining who the World Champ is.
 
First of all stop saying Limited, there are 3 kinds of limited formats. If you mean sealed, then say sealed, draft say draft. Limited is very broad.
 
SHPanda said:
First of all stop saying Limited, there are 3 kinds of limited formats. If you mean sealed, then say sealed, draft say draft. Limited is very broad.
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This conversation is rapidly degenerating beyond the bounds of any kind usefulness so this will be my last word on it.

For the record, Lisa tied Chris at a Prerelease, so that was a sealed event. Sealed and draft are first cousins in that there is a huge element of pack luck in both instances. You obviously get a measure of control over what you end up with in draft vs. sealed, but both are heavily dependent on what's in the packs. IMHO, that's what makes both formats totally inappropriate for determining a World Champ.

Bottom line: You think the format for the next Worlds should include draft. I think you're all wet and neither of us is likely to change the other's mind. Let's just leave it at that.
 
Sealed is virtually all luck bassed, whereas draft takes a level of skill comparable to that of constructed.
You can't compare draft and sealed. So stop trying.
 
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