Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Format for Worlds 2005

Yea,

Draft is fun and all, but what about foreign players who haven't memorized every card in each of the sets and can't read english. That would put an unfair advantage to the people who do know how to read english, mostly the folks from the united states.

There wouldn't be a real simple way to have cards of all languages of some sort, because you can't be looking up translations of cards or be asking for the card in another language when in a rochester draft that has time limited decisions.

Perhaps draft will have to be left out of the scene for this reason.
 
I'm still pulling for draft as limited, but i guess 1 day for swiss will work(though you can't get as many rounds) but meh. As for the day 2 single elim should be rodchester for top 8. The rest can be modified. or how about fire red leaf green and up, for top 32 and top 16. hmm there's food for thought

And as for the language barriar, I'm sure most people will know what almost all, if not all, of the cards. Besides if they don't know what a card does, thats y you have trainslaters.
 
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Modified pays the bills. Modified gives EVERYBODY equal access to the same card pool. Draft or sealed is TOO luck based for an event as big as worlds. Draft is for the pre-releases-not worlds.Now I'm all for an unlimited world champion, but combining the 3 formats to determine a world champion isn't the way to go i.m.o.The game has enough of a luck factor without adding sealed or draft to it. Not at something as big as worlds.

Drafting is for a fun event like a pre-release. An event as big as worlds should give EVERYONE EQUAL access to the same card pool. If worlds becomes a multi format w/drafting being a part of it then I'll pass.And this from someone who knows how to draft pretty well.
 
Me and my brother have always liked unlimited more than modified because of the speed it has. This can also mean games can be fairer for example because with modified if u only have 1 base u will do something live T.V Reporter and just hope u get a base or smthing to save u. In Unlimited u could oak and still have a chance of coming back even if u didnt get a base. That would also mean u could have shorter rounds but still get time finished quickly.

If i could make a decision i would go like this:

Day 1: Friday. Grinder for Unlimited and Modified
Day 2: Saturday 8 Games of Modified and 9 games of unlimited.
Day 3: top 32 elimination for Unlimited and Modified.

I think that would be good as long as u have atleast 1 room for each different category. For the 3rd day it would be like worlds. 90 minutes for each game. Best of 3. There would also be lots of side tournaments aswell.

So pretty much everything is the same as the worlds just been except there would be an unlimited tourny and a modified. There would also be a booster at stack for every round.

Chances r this wouldnt happen but if i could organize it thats what i would do.

*dances* kapai
 
the_sniper said:
Drafting is for a fun event like a pre-release. An event as big as worlds should give EVERYONE EQUAL access to the same card pool. If worlds becomes a multi format w/drafting being a part of it then I'll pass.And this from someone who knows how to draft pretty well.
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First off if you draft, then your garanteed to the same card pool as everyone else in your pod. And as i said before, you should only play the people in your pod. And there is just as much luck as there is in modified, in fact even less. Because say someone does open an ex. If it's a stage 2 then its pratically useless.

And as for unlimited. That format is way too broken to be played. Plus not everyone can build a good unlimited deck.
 
$DuckMan$ said:
well y not put the champs of each for mat against each other and let the judges pick wat format they play?
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Umm no that would lead more towards favoritism.

Adv1sor said:
True, but the World Champion of Pokemon should be the champion of all formats, not just one or two.
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Granted, but unlimited should be a separte event, because if unlimited was in worlds then we would see blaziken vs Muk snesal or sumthing like that. It would just be terrible and favor the player who have been playing since the begining. I'm not saying that I don't like unlimited, because i do, but it would be unfair for other players who hasnt had the opprotunity to get things like computer search and professor oak.
 
I like draft. Rochester best of all though it takes a long long time for a rochester draft. (2 hours for the draft phase!)

Sealed has far too much pack luck for it to be anything other than a fun format at the moment. It might be possible to fix this with the introduction of special tournament packs but that would require a lot of R&D.

The biggest problem draft faces in pokemon is which set to use. IMHO the only set that we've seen in recent times that would be suitable for a worlds standard draft is TAvsTM.
 
Who's the best runner in the world? Is it the guy who won the 100M or the guy who won the Marathon?

Hard to say, because they are so different. Much like Modified and Unlimited.
 
I like this idea WizKids did this for their Nationals I beleive they had a booster draft the conquest (which is like unlimited) then regular (like modified). I would go for that just cuz it makes it more of a challenge then.

~Tormented~
 
SHPanda said:
First off if you draft, then your garanteed to the same card pool as everyone else in your pod. And as i said before, you should only play the people in your pod. And there is just as much luck as there is in modified, in fact even less. Because say someone does open an ex. If it's a stage 2 then its pratically useless.



How am i guarenteed access to the same card pool as everyone else? If your 6 packs have say a zappy ex, 2 pikachus and 2 riachus and another playable line and i pull evolutions w/out the basics or understages who is gonna win? And how does this give me access to zapdos ex or any other cards you may pull that i don't ( like trainers)? It doesn't! You were LUCKY enough to pull those cards out of your packs and i wasn't. NOTHING fair or equal about that is there?

And i'd love to know how you figure there is LESS luck involved in draft then modified. With modified , i have access to every card in the current format. EVERY one. With draft, i have the cards i pull in my packs . Period. Whatever i am LUCKY enough to pull and nothing else( except energies). I ( and the people that know me) consider me to be an excellent deck builder, but without the proper cards there isn't a player out there who can make a deck work properly. My modified decks work between 85-90%
of the time. They do because of the different cards i put in them. I can control what goes in when i'm playing modified. Not that way when i draft. Draft is more like Pokemon-"Junkyard wars style".

It's a fun way to play, but NOT one that needs to be implimented in Worlds next year. W.o.t.c. introduced draft and rochester to us when they had the game . They still play most of their games this way ( especially at their big events). If this is how you wish to play then maybe you should play their games competitively. Or keep coming to those pre-releases( which are definately fun).But this format is NOT a fair way to determine a world champion. Since drafting or rochester was NOT in the format at this year's worlds I'd say that "the powers that be" agree w/me.




And as for unlimited. That format is way too broken to be played. Plus not everyone can build a good unlimited deck.(quote)


Why is it "way too broken"? There is like 5-6 really good unlimited decks being played right now( unlike in the past). Don't want to be f.t.k.o.ed? Play more basics.
Unlimited SHOULD be implimented in next years Worlds, but i.m.o. it should be a seperate event- NOT combined with the modified event. It would be nice if unlimited had it's own "world championship" but i'm not sure that will ever happen. As i've said before , modified pays the bills. And you really can't blame P.U.S.A. for wanting us to play with the NEW cards. That is how they make their money. And from what i have seen that is where the best prize support has come from.


---the_sniper---
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SHPanda said:
First off if you draft, then your garanteed to the same card pool as everyone else in your pod. And as i said before, you should only play the people in your pod. And there is just as much luck as there is in modified, in fact even less. Because say someone does open an ex. If it's a stage 2 then its pratically useless.

And as for unlimited. That format is way too broken to be played. Plus not everyone can build a good unlimited deck.
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Oh man, this is the topic that just about got me run out of town on a rail over on the Wizards boards, but I guess I'm a glutton for punishment so I'll dive in again.

In draft, players are absolutley, positively NOT guaranteed access to the same card pool. As soon as you open a pack and snag a card, that card is REMOVED from the pool. Assume for a moment that the card pool (all the cards in the unopened packs) contains a total of four Professor Oak's Research cards . You're lucky enough to open three of those four packs and you grab the POR each time.

Now, stand there with a straight face and tell me that we both had equal access to POR. Ain't no way.

Any kind of Limited format is highly luck-based. Players DO NOT have equal access to the good game cards. It all depends on what's in your packs.

Sealed and draft may be a "fun" way to play, but deciding a World Championship that way would define the word "travesty".

Unlimited is "way too broken to be played"? You obviously didn't play in any of the Unlimited side events at Worlds. I played in both of them and saw a wide variety of workable decks--including some that used Stage 2's. That was unheard of back when Haymakers ruled. However, the card pool for Unlimited is now SO LARGE that there are plenty of ways to build a winning deck.

"Not everyone can build a good Unlimited deck"? That holds double for draft and sealed. You can't build a good deck if you don't get any good cards.
 
Voltorb : i remember those discussions on the old boards. I'm curious as to your thoughts on Wotcs reliance upon draft in MtG. Do you think that drafting Magic is also more luck and less skill too? ( I know your thoughts on pokemon ;))

The new big EX basic monsters increased the amount of pack luck in the FRLG pokemon sealed pre-releases. It wasn't quite as bad as the top spots *all* being taken by zapdos EX / articuno Ex, but it was very dificult for those of us who didn't get either of those two to place in the top 4. For draft to work the pack luck has to be spread around with no GOD cards. So while the GOD cards are in the packs and rare to boot I'm with you on drafting not being a viable way of determining a winner at worlds. Pity as I like draft.
 
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NoPoke said:
Voltorb : i remember those discussions on the old boards. I'm curious as to your thoughts on Wotcs reliance upon draft in MtG. Do you think that drafting Magic is also more luck and less skill too? ( I know your thoughts on pokemon ;))

The new big EX basic monsters increased the amount of pack luck in the FRLG pokemon sealed pre-releases. It wasn't quite as bad as the top spots *all* being taken by zapdos EX / articuno Ex, but it was very dificult for those of us who didn't get either of those two to place in the top 4. For draft to work the pack luck has to be spread around with no GOD cards. So while the GOD cards are in the packs and rare to boot I'm with you on drafting not being a viable way of determining a winner at worlds. Pity as I like draft.
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I must admit to knowing absolutely nothing about Magic, but I would suspect WotC is big on draft because they're in the business of selling cards. Having tournaments where you have to buy new cards to play has to be good for the bottom line. Convincing your customers that that's THE way to play sounds like WotC is driven more by marketers than by gamers.

The same principle would apply regardless of what the game is. A fair test of your deckbuilding skill vs. my deckbuilding skill would require that we both be allowed build whatever we wanted within a common set of rules. That doesn't happen in draft or sealed.

In draft, if I get GOD cards and you don't, it's all over. Even if you're the better player, I'm still going to beat you. In Constructed, if I put GOD cards in my deck and you don't, then you deserve the beating you're going to get, but at least you had the chance to build a deck that was as good as mine.

Pack luck is huge in draft and sealed. The_sniper is one of the best deckbuilders and players on the planet, yet he's never even come close to winning a Limited event. If you don't get the cards, all the skill in the world isn't going to help you. OTOH, my 12 year old daughter is a casual player at best, yet she's pulled top-4 in both of the prereleases she's played in. Tied Chris Bianchi for 4th at one of them and Chris is a FAR better player.

I've played draft once. It was an after hours fun game at last year's Worlds in Seattle. It was reasonably enjoyable and I did reasonably well--largely because I had an Articuno and no one else did. That game opened my eyes to the fact that draft can be fun, but it also reinforced my belief that it's no way to determine a World Champ.
 
the_sniper said:
If your 6 packs have say a zappy ex, 2 pikachus and 2 riachus and another playable line and i pull evolutions w/out the basics or understages who is gonna win?
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Luck is a huge factor in sealed deck, although deck building skill also comes into play. Luck is much less a factor in draft.

Everyone gets six first choices in draft. You would be very lucky indeed to see Zapados ex and two Raichus. There is only one type of Pikachu in this format, but it is a common with a poor attack and so would probably make it around the table. (Unless anyone else opened a Raichu.)

You are right. In draft, if you draft evolutions without the basics or stage ones you will not win. But is this not where the skill factor comes in? In knowing which card to take and what cards to pass?

Knowing that, for example, there are two types of Bulbasaur and two types of Charmander in FR/LG, all commons, I might pass up a rare like Exeggutor or Fearow in favor of an uncommon like Ivysaur or Charmeleon as I would have a better chance of getting the basics in multiples.

All but one of the trainer cards in FR/LG are uncommons. So even if you open that Zapdos ex your chances of seeing him in a game are slim. Of course I’d draft him anyway :) But this does help to reduce the role of luck in the outcome of the tournament.

If POP is going to sanction three formats, then Worlds Champion should be a master of all three, and I think that this may be what we see in 2005.

Professor Dav said:
My personal hope for next year is that we can do both limited and unlimited segments at Worlds, though this year will be straight Modified.
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voltorb43 said:
Unlimited is "way too broken to be played"? You obviously didn't play in any of the Unlimited side events at Worlds. I played in both of them and saw a wide variety of workable decks--including some that used Stage 2's. That was unheard of back when Haymakers ruled. However, the card pool for Unlimited is now SO LARGE that there are plenty of ways to build a winning deck.
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No, I didn't play in any side events at worlds, because I was too busy playing in the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP.

Secondly Unlimited is a broken format, and let me explain why I think this. First of all the changing of the first turn evolution rule. This was not too much of an impact on modified, but in unlimited it was huge. At first, a turn 1 blastoise fully powered was a common site due to oak's, computer seachs, and item finders. I know of a deck that basically forbids you from doing anything but drawing a card and saying go. I'm not going to say what that is because the idea belongs to a friend and i haven't seen it anywhere else. After playing many games against that deck i realized that i truly is the best deck in the format and can only get beat if it gets OHKO'ed the first turn and loses.


voltorb43 said:
Pack luck is huge in draft and sealed. The_sniper is one of the best deckbuilders and players on the planet, yet he's never even come close to winning a Limited event. If you don't get the cards, all the skill in the world isn't going to help you. OTOH, my 12 year old daughter is a casual player at best, yet she's pulled top-4 in both of the prereleases she's played in. Tied Chris Bianchi for 4th at one of them and Chris is a FAR better player.
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He obviously isn't one of the best deckbuilder on the planet if he didn't even come close to winning a Limited tourny, unless it was sealed deck. As for your daughter, congrats for getting top 4, but all pre-release comes down to is, who is luckier at opening good packs.

the_sniper said:
It's a fun way to play, but NOT one that needs to be implimented in Worlds next year. W.o.t.c. introduced draft and rochester to us when they had the game . They still play most of their games this way ( especially at their big events). If this is how you wish to play then maybe you should play their games competitively. Or keep coming to those pre-releases( which are definately fun).But this format is NOT a fair way to determine a world champion. Since drafting or rochester was NOT in the format at this year's worlds I'd say that "the powers that be" agree w/me.
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First of all i to play Mtg competitly and I don't like it when you say it like its an insult. Think before you say something. As for "the powers that be" agreeing with you as for worlds being only modified this year, yes that correct, but this discussion is about next year, and next year I highly doubt that they will make worlds a modified only event.
 
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I personally would love to see some large scale Unlimited tournaments at Worlds next year, even if they aren't World Champion deciding. I do think it would be cool to have a seperate Wolrd Champion for each format.

And if you do enough rounds and make a larger cut to the top X, it could be pretty even. There IS a lot of skill involved it doing a draft. Even assuming that there is inevitably more luck involved that any constructed format than in draft, it still doesn't mean that draft shouldn't be done. If there were any format that reduced the luck factor further than Modified, people would say to stop playing Modified :p But seriously, you'll just have to accept that luck is ALWAYS a factor. You can get screwed out of winning in ANY FORMAT, even at a World Championship. I am the perfect example of this: I played Swampert/ex with a single Suicune ex, and I was screwed three out of seven games because my only starting basic was the single Suicune ex. If you think that the luck factor in draft is worse than that, then you need to take another look. Seriously. In fact, in draft, with more average ("normal") basics being played, it's less likely to be screwed on a bad start than in Modified. And with 4 prizes, it's possibly less likely to be prize-screwed in draft than in constructed format (like what happened to me in the other game I lost at Worlds aside from the 3 Cune starts -- 2 Marshtomps and a Rare Candy were prized)

So if you think that Draft is only luck and Modified isn't, then you need things to be put into perspective.

..Fiziks..
 
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Draft should never ever be allowed at Worlds.

All of you are forgetting that Worlds means Worlds and that there are supposed to be players From around the world who will not all speak or read English. And for the younger ones it's hard to learn all the cards out of their heads.
Even if you know which set is going to be used, it's still to complicated.
Also Draft is very expensive, we don't get those nice prices on boosterboxes, so the change to practice would be zero.

Unlimited with only cards who are released worldwide and Slowking ruled as the Japanese play them, well that would be an option.
 
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