Fun Food For Thought

[Nekizalb]

Hey guys,

Yesterday, I got bored, so I wondered into the store where I sometimes go for league. I know the store is very popular as a hangout place for WoW and Magic players, and many of the Magic players also know how to play Pokemon. I played a few Pokemon games, then I played a few Magic games.

Please note that I am a terrible Magic player, and do not own a single Magic card. I barely know the rules, and I must read every card my opponent plays. So I might get some details wrong about this format, but I'll try my best. If there are any Magic players on the 'Gym, if I miss something, please correct me. Thanks in advance!



Apparently in Magic there is a format called EDH where players use 100-card decks with 40 life instead of the usual 20 life (which would be the Pokemon equivalent of playing with 12 Prizes instead of 6 Prizes.) These 100-card decks have enough room in them for extremely complicated strategies, and the few that I played were really slow. No damage was dealt in several of my games until the fifth or sixth turn (the Pokemon equivalent of not attacking until the fifth or sixth turn). According to Kamaki, you can only run one of each card, but the cards can work together to give you some pretty cool abilities, like giving one player infinite consecutive turns.

Magic lacks drawpower, and you pretty much always have to rely on topdecks. Thus, the game overall moved very slowly, but it was still fun to play. Because you have 40 life (or 12 prize cards) instead of the usual 20 life, I actually had time to draw into decent attackers and spells that changed the game enough times to make it interesting. Some players have combos to increase their drawpower, but it's still not like Claydol.

Also, you have a "General", or a very powerful card that you place in a special spot above your deck. You can pay the card's cost to bring it into play, and when it dies, it goes back to that spot, and you have to pay a little more to bring it into play. This is like putting a Luxray GL Lv. X beside your deck, discarding two cards from your hand to bring it into play, and when it dies, you discard three cards from your hand and you can put it back into play. (In Magic you have to tap your lands, but whatever.)


So, just for fun, what are your thoughts about playing with 100-card Pokemon decks, but keeping the standard 4-card rule? I think it would be pretty cool for a side event, but it probably wouldn't work for the real format.




Thanks to Kamaki for providing me with some knowledge.

 

[Kamaki]

The one thing you missed was that EDH (Elder Dragon Highlander) limits every card in the deck to one copy, except mana (energy). People also usually find ways to increase the number of cards they draw. Also as a side note, the game frequently turns into one person playing a combo that gives him infinite consecutive turns, and thus winning.

It's a neat concept, and if modified a bit I could see it working well with pokemon. However with 100 cards you would have 10 prizes not twelve (1 prize for every 10 cards).

 

[thunderjolt]

It would also be cool if we could choose how many cards we could have in our decks(at least sixty) and then have one prize for every ten cards in the deck.

 

[MattPL]

The one thing you missed was that EDH (Elder Dragon Highlander) limits every card in the deck to one copy, except mana (energy). People also usually find ways to increase the number of cards they draw. Also as a side note, the game frequently turns into one person playing a combo that gives him infinite consecutive turns, and thus winning.

It's a neat concept, and if modified a bit I could see it working well with pokemon. However with 100 cards you would have 10 prizes not twelve (1 prize for every 10 cards).

Yeah, Kamaki is correct. I've got a brother who's a Magic player, and I've seen him looking up EDH before.

I'm not sure how the games turn out, but I don't really think you could make an infinite turn combo in Pokemon.

Also, what format does this use in Magic? Is it type 1 or type 2?

 

[Nekizalb]

It would also be cool if we could choose how many cards we could have in our decks(at least sixty) and then have one prize for every ten cards in the deck.

Both players would have to agree on a set number of prizes because one player could be running a 60-card deck and the other player could be running a 100-card deck. Thus, one player instantly starts with a 4-prize advantage.

MattPL- I don't even know what type 1 and type 2 formats are :frown:

I really think that players could get really creative with 100-card decks. LuxChomp can run 4 Cyrus, 4 Spray, 4 Poketurn, 4 Egain, 4 SP Radar, Promocroak, Ambipom, Roserade, Froslass, Claydol, ERL, and tons of other techs. Drawing into them might be a problem, but there is space for Claydol.

Jumpluff can run 4 Crobat G in addition to all the other techs it runs, and it can use Cyrus's Conspiracy to grab a Poketurn for Luxray in addition to an Energy and a Supporter.

Gyarados can now run 4 TSD, 4 Pokemon Rescue, and Marley's Request (show your opponent a TSD or a Rescue) in addition to everything else.

And decks that are slow to set up can be made playable because there are a lot more prizes than usual.

 

[ShuckleLVX]

Both players would have to agree on a set number of prizes because one player could be running a 60-card deck and the other player could be running a 100-card deck. Thus, one player instantly starts with a 4-prize advantage.
.

4 Prize vs 40 Card advantage >.> That would be the trade off to running a bigger deck...

 

[Sabett]

The one thing you missed was that EDH (Elder Dragon Highlander) limits every card in the deck to one copy, except mana (energy). People also usually find ways to increase the number of cards they draw. Also as a side note, the game frequently turns into one person playing a combo that gives him infinite consecutive turns, and thus winning.

It's a neat concept, and if modified a bit I could see it working well with pokemon. However with 100 cards you would have 10 prizes not twelve (1 prize for every 10 cards).

People don't typically win in EDH by making infinite turns. There are several ways to win. Some just aggresively KO everybody, other's deck out opponents, other's lock opponents out. EDH is one of the formats where there are probably the most variable ways to win.

It would also be cool if we could choose how many cards we could have in our decks(at least sixty) and then have one prize for every ten cards in the deck.

That's sort of out of place for EDH, the 100 card count is a really a founding part of the format. It as well as the singleton rule are an important part of creating an equalizer for everyone.

Yeah, Kamaki is correct. I've got a brother who's a Magic player, and I've seen him looking up EDH before.

I'm not sure how the games turn out, but I don't really think you could make an infinite turn combo in Pokemon.

Also, what format does this use in Magic? Is it type 1 or type 2?

Actually you can have infinite turns with dialga X, but anyway no, I've looked through the tower before and there isn't any way to do infinite turns in pokemon (as far as the english cards go).

Also, EDH is not type 1 or 2. It has it's own created format that mirrors type 1 if anything.

It's not supported as an official format, however people have gotten together and made it as official as they could without the company authorizing it.

http://www.dragonhighlander.net/rules.php

That's their main site.

Note that the rules they list are also only suggestions, the rules are subject to the individual groups decisions and house rules.

Both players would have to agree on a set number of prizes because one player could be running a 60-card deck and the other player could be running a 100-card deck. Thus, one player instantly starts with a 4-prize advantage.

MattPL- I don't even know what type 1 and type 2 formats are :frown:

I really think that players could get really creative with 100-card decks. LuxChomp can run 4 Cyrus, 4 Spray, 4 Poketurn, 4 Egain, 4 SP Radar, Promocroak, Ambipom, Roserade, Froslass, Claydol, ERL, and tons of other techs. Drawing into them might be a problem, but there is space for Claydol.

Jumpluff can run 4 Crobat G in addition to all the other techs it runs, and it can use Cyrus's Conspiracy to grab a Poketurn for Luxray in addition to an Energy and a Supporter.

Gyarados can now run 4 TSD, 4 Pokemon Rescue, and Marley's Request (show your opponent a TSD or a Rescue) in addition to everything else.

And decks that are slow to set up can be made playable because there are a lot more prizes than usual.

I don't think you realize that having a larger deck isn't necessarily an advantage. If you pair up a 60 deck against a 100 card deck, have the 60 card deck start with 6 prizes and the other with 10, the 60 card deck will have a ridiculous advantage over the other. 40 less cards to sift through 4 less pokemon to KO, that's like having 4 turns on the opponent before the game starts. It would make a lot more sense to just keep it at 100 cards and 10 prizes.

Having a 4 card limit also sort of destroys the point of having a large deck, the fact that it's slow is sort of the point, it's like a big clash of the titans. I think it would be a lot more fun with a 1 card limit, maybe 2 because of the way pokemon works, but the struggling of working with low numbers is part of the format for sure.

There's a few rules you forgot to point out.

The first is the color limitations, in EDH you can only play with cards that are either colorless or are the colors of your general. Nothings allowed to be put into the deck that's outside of these colors. So people in pokemon would be able to run delcatty, but not claydol unless their general was fighting type.

The other is that opponents can win by doing lesser amount of damage if they do it with their general. In magic if you do 21 damage with your general you could win that way. In the same fashion we could have a quicker win done with the general if they KO 7 pokemon.

Also, they typically have a free mulligan for everyone since everyone's using such a large deck. We could do this as well by having one optional mulligan, and then mulligan as it's set normally in pokemon.

Another rule to be aware of is when a general dies in magic, you have the option to let it go to the discard, or to remove it to the special place where the general began. (Called the Commander zone in magic, yes it's a separate place from their removed from game zone, so no the lost zone isn't where our generals should start out) In magic this has the advantage of allowing you to play spells and put it back into play without having to have to play it again with the disadvantage that comes with playing it again. In pokemon, we could have the same option be allowed, since we could use TSD, or pokemon rescue to bring it back without discarding cards from our hand (I like that as a way to bring the generals into the field btw).

The biggest Issue I see with transitioning EDH into pokemon is reliably getting the general out. With keeping the minimum cards limit it would seem that getting out let's say Blastoise Ex, would seem hard since we can only run so many squirtles and wartortles. And even if we let it go up to a 4 card limit, we still can't get it out all that well. What I suggest is to allow the mutant rule into the format, but only for the general, this allows you to get your general out very easily and let you work around your general more.

Also, the format should be unlimited to create a large and healthy format. Banning things as they seem unfit as time goes on. (I'm looking at you Slowking)

4 Prize vs 40 Card advantage >.> That would be the trade off to running a bigger deck...

That 40 "card advantage" is also a very big cripple. Working with a 60 card deck and working with a 100 card deck is a lot different.

 

[MattPL]

People don't typically win in EDH by making infinite turns. There are several ways to win. Some just aggresively KO everybody, other's deck out opponents, other's lock opponents out. EDH is one of the formats where there are probably the most variable ways to win.

That's sort of out of place for EDH, the 100 card count is a really a founding part of the format. It as well as the singleton rule are an important part of creating an equalizer for everyone.

Actually you can have infinite turns with dialga X, but anyway no, I've looked through the tower before and there isn't any way to do infinite turns in pokemon (as far as the english cards go).

Also, EDH is not type 1 or 2. It has it's own created format that mirrors type 1 if anything.

It's not supported as an official format, however people have gotten together and made it as official as they could without the company authorizing it.

http://www.dragonhighlander.net/rules.php

That's their main site.

Note that the rules they list are also only suggestions, the rules are subject to the individual groups decisions and house rules.

I don't think you realize that having a larger deck isn't necessarily an advantage. If you pair up a 60 deck against a 100 card deck, have the 60 card deck start with 6 prizes and the other with 10, the 60 card deck will have a ridiculous advantage over the other. 40 less cards to sift through 4 less pokemon to KO, that's like having 4 turns on the opponent before the game starts. It would make a lot more sense to just keep it at 100 cards and 10 prizes.

Having a 4 card limit also sort of destroys the point of having a large deck, the fact that it's slow is sort of the point, it's like a big clash of the titans. I think it would be a lot more fun with a 1 card limit, maybe 2 because of the way pokemon works, but the struggling of working with low numbers is part of the format for sure.

There's a few rules you forgot to point out.

The first is the color limitations, in EDH you can only play with cards that are either colorless or are the colors of your general. Nothings allowed to be put into the deck that's outside of these colors. So people in pokemon would be able to run delcatty, but not claydol unless their general was fighting type.

The other is that opponents can win by doing lesser amount of damage if they do it with their general. In magic if you do 21 damage with your general you could win that way. In the same fashion we could have a quicker win done with the general if they KO 7 pokemon.

Also, they typically have a free mulligan for everyone since everyone's using such a large deck. We could do this as well by having one optional mulligan, and then mulligan as it's set normally in pokemon.

Another rule to be aware of is when a general dies in magic, you have the option to let it go to the discard, or to remove it to the special place where the general began. (Called the Commander zone in magic, yes it's a separate place from their removed from game zone, so no the lost zone isn't where our generals should start out) In magic this has the advantage of allowing you to play spells and put it back into play without having to have to play it again with the disadvantage that comes with playing it again. In pokemon, we could have the same option be allowed, since we could use TSD, or pokemon rescue to bring it back without discarding cards from our hand (I like that as a way to bring the generals into the field btw).

The biggest Issue I see with transitioning EDH into pokemon is reliably getting the general out. With keeping the minimum cards limit it would seem that getting out let's say Blastoise Ex, would seem hard since we can only run so many squirtles and wartortles. And even if we let it go up to a 4 card limit, we still can't get it out all that well. What I suggest is to allow the mutant rule into the format, but only for the general, this allows you to get your general out very easily and let you work around your general more.

Also, the format should be unlimited to create a large and healthy format. Banning things as they seem unfit as time goes on. (I'm looking at you Slowking)

That 40 "card advantage" is also a very big cripple. Working with a 60 card deck and working with a 100 card deck is a lot different.

Listen to this guy. I've only seen my brother and his friends looking up EDH before, so I don't know all that much about it. Also, I don't play Magic, I just say what I know.

Sabett sounds like he knows what he's talking about.

 

[ShuckleLVX]

That 40 "card advantage" is also a very big cripple. Working with a 60 card deck and working with a 100 card deck is a lot different.

Sure, if you went as extreme as 100 cards, it could get bothersome. But the concept is the same. Have you never wanted to fit just 4-5 more cards? Why not 70 Cards/7 Prizes? A single prize for an extra 10 cards worth of options?

 

[MattPL]

Sure, if you went as extreme as 100 cards, it could get bothersome. But the concept is the same. Have you never wanted to fit just 4-5 more cards? Why not 70 Cards/7 Prizes? A single prize for an extra 10 cards worth of options?

Remember though, every card in EDH is limited to just 1 copy.

 

[Sabett]

Listen to this guy. I've only seen my brother and his friends looking up EDH before, so I don't know all that much about it. Also, I don't play Magic, I just say what I know.

Sabett sounds like he knows what he's talking about.

I have played in EDH tourneys before, although I'm not the most avid of EDH players (some other card game is just a little more appealing if you know what I mean). The name Elder Dragon Highlander was inspired by some old (and terrible) elder dragon cards, and by the movie, Highlander. The elder dragon part explains for the "General" of the game, having some powerful guy to slap down later, and having him always on hand, and be able to come back again and again at a price. The Highlander part explains for the singleton part, well, because... THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE!!! lol, but seriously in magic it stopped people from having a bunch of similar deck lists, and it also helped with the epicness that they wanted to create with this new format, 60 card decks were still a little small and quick, and didn't quite have enough oomph, so they tried out 100, and it's been destined love ever since. The vast majority of edh games I've played have always involved a bunch of ridiculous and crazy plays.

The color limitation also plays into the flavor of the "Generals", but I'm a bit worried how it will play into pokemon. Allowing Colorless pokemon into other colors is probably fine, and I heard that delcatty used to be a good draw engine, so there's at least something each deck can use. Also, for the cost to get a general out, I think the cost should start at 1 card, and then build up by 1 each time it get's KO'd, and instead of discarding the cards, I think they should be placed into the lost zone. I know there's the possibility of people winning off of lost zone, but the utility that people could get from being able to put cards into the discard pile could become too great. If lost zone became too much of a problem that card could easily become banned.

I just thought of something that could become a big problem with EDH transitioning into pokemon.

EDH is more than often played multiplayer...

In magic this works fairly well, because it has life totals, so one person can get KO'd, and the rest of the players can keep on going until one person is left standing (once again THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE!!!), but with pokemon once someone has grabbed all of his prizes he wins... Hmm, well what I'm thinking is that instead of prizes, each person has something like life totals. Now, bare with me here, I know prizes are a big part of pokemon, but big slow and powerful decks are a part of the intention with EDH, fast and quick decks have their place of course, but if we kept it with prizes one person could just steal all the glory. With points it can be the slow epic slugfest it's intended to be. Plus without prizes it could be more true to how EDH is supposed to be played with a 100 card deck instead of a 90 card deck. Sure this would make some cards obsolete, but this has happened with magic as well. A few cards to list would be azelf, rotom, and DPL. DPL would still add prizes to the opponent, but the prizes wouldn't mean anything. So, with a point system added, with each person's "life" going down for each pokemon that get's KO'd. 10 sounds like a good number, I'm not too sure where the amount of KO's a general should do to KO someone should be at, somewhere between 5-8.

Sorry if all of this rambling seems confusing, ask me if something seems a bit foggy.

Sure, if you went as extreme as 100 cards, it could get bothersome. But the concept is the same. Have you never wanted to fit just 4-5 more cards? Why not 70 Cards/7 Prizes? A single prize for an extra 10 cards worth of options?

Oh why sure at that point it's ok I guess, but like Matt pointed out, the format's intended to be played in singleton, and the 100 card limit of no more no less is an important part of EDH. The big 100 card deck is what's intended to be played with, and if smaller decks are allowed into the format it'll probably be too much for the larger decks to deal with.

 

[MattPL]

I have played in EDH tourneys before, although I'm not the most avid of EDH players (some other card game is just a little more appealing if you know what I mean). The name Elder Dragon Highlander was inspired by some old (and terrible) elder dragon cards, and by the movie, Highlander. The elder dragon part explains for the "General" of the game, having some powerful guy to slap down later, and having him always on hand, and be able to come back again and again at a price. The Highlander part explains for the singleton part, well, because... THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE!!! lol, but seriously in magic it stopped people from having a bunch of similar deck lists, and it also helped with the epicness that they wanted to create with this new format, 60 card decks were still a little small and quick, and didn't quite have enough oomph, so they tried out 100, and it's been destined love ever since. The vast majority of edh games I've played have always involved a bunch of ridiculous and crazy plays.

The color limitation also plays into the flavor of the "Generals", but I'm a bit worried how it will play into pokemon. Allowing Colorless pokemon into other colors is probably fine, and I heard that delcatty used to be a good draw engine, so there's at least something each deck can use. Also, for the cost to get a general out, I think the cost should start at 1 card, and then build up by 1 each time it get's KO'd, and instead of discarding the cards, I think they should be placed into the lost zone. I know there's the possibility of people winning off of lost zone, but the utility that people could get from being able to put cards into the discard pile could become too great. If lost zone became too much of a problem that card could easily become banned.

I just thought of something that could become a big problem with EDH transitioning into pokemon.

EDH is more than often played multiplayer...

In magic this works fairly well, because it has life totals, so one person can get KO'd, and the rest of the players can keep on going until one person is left standing (once again THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE!!!), but with pokemon once someone has grabbed all of his prizes he wins... Hmm, well what I'm thinking is that instead of prizes, each person has something like life totals. Now, bare with me here, I know prizes are a big part of pokemon, but big slow and powerful decks are a part of the intention with EDH, fast and quick decks have their place of course, but if we kept it with prizes one person could just steal all the glory. With points it can be the slow epic slugfest it's intended to be. Plus without prizes it could be more true to how EDH is supposed to be played with a 100 card deck instead of a 90 card deck. Sure this would make some cards obsolete, but this has happened with magic as well. A few cards to list would be azelf, rotom, and DPL. DPL would still add prizes to the opponent, but the prizes wouldn't mean anything. So, with a point system added, with each person's "life" going down for each pokemon that get's KO'd. 10 sounds like a good number, I'm not too sure where the amount of KO's a general should do to KO someone should be at, somewhere between 5-8.

Sorry if all of this rambling seems confusing, ask me if something seems a bit foggy.

Oh why sure at that point it's ok I guess, but like Matt pointed out, the format's intended to be played in singleton, and the 100 card limit of no more no less is an important part of EDH. The big 100 card deck is what's intended to be played with, and if smaller decks are allowed into the format it'll probably be too much for the larger decks to deal with.

Yeah, I asked my brother and his friend about it a few minutes ago, and EDH is usually played with like, 5 players. I know it can be more or less, but the point is is that it's supposed to be highly multiplayer, like most games in Magic can be.

Pokemon is usually only 2, with the slight exception of Double Battles and 4 Player Battles, which I've never actually played.

 

[Sabett]

Yeah, I asked my brother and his friend about it a few minutes ago, and EDH is usually played with like, 5 players. I know it can be more or less, but the point is is that it's supposed to be highly multiplayer, like most games in Magic can be.

Pokemon is usually only 2, with the slight exception of Double Battles and 4 Player Battles, which I've never actually played.

Yeah, points really should be put into place in order to experience the multiplayer format.

I also thought of another rule to add to your deck choices when limited by your general. Also be allowed to play pokemon that can evolve from your general. This allows for eevee decks to really shine, and things like kirlia deck be able to use gardevoir and gallade. Also the Lv.X's of pokemon should not count as having the same name, or else you couldn't run Lv.Xs at all.

EDIT: Just to recap and clear up things about, what I think the rules should be for Pokemon EDH.

1. Cards chosen for the deck list are limited to a count of 1, aside from basic energy.

2. Cards chosen for the deck list are limited by the colors of the chosen general, aside from pokemon that evolve from the General, and colorless pokemon. All colorless pokemon are allowed into all deck lists. Pokemon with Dual types may not be included into a deck list if all those types are not also shared with the General.

3. When the game begins the General is set aside from the deck, it is considered to be in a place aside from the Lost Zone and the Discard Pile called the Commander Zone.

4. At any time, after you draw, and before you attack, you may place one card from your hand into the lost zone, and put your General into your hand, plus another card for each time you have previously placed the General from the Commander zone into your hand in this fashion.

5. A deck list may contain no more or less than 100 cards, including the chosen General.

6. A General may evolve from or level up from any pokemon that it originally evolves from, or any pokemon that shares a type with the General, and has the appropriate stage needed. All other pokemon evolve normally.

7. When a General is placed in any manner to the Discard Pile, or the Lost Zone, you have the option to place him back into the Commander Zone. This does not include when a General is placed into a hand or deck.

8. Level X's are unique cards set aside from their counterparts that they level up from. You may include a pokemon and it's Lv.X into a deck list as two separate cards.

9. Each player begins with a total of 10 prizes. Whenever a player's pokemon becomes KO'd they draw one of their prize cards, when they lose them all they lose and leave the game, taking any sort of cards he had on the field, including stadiums. If a pokemon Ex, something with an Expert Belt attached, or anything of the like is KO'd the prizes taken for the opponent are accurately translated into prizes taken for the defending player.

EX: If a Entei&Raikou Legend with an Expert Belt attached is KO'd by a Salamance Lv.X with Double Fall active for that turn, the player with the Entei&Raikou Legend would take 4 prize cards.

10. In the event that a pokemon would add prizes to an opponents prize count in anyway shape or form, prizes are added to his own prize pool instead.

11. Any sort of pokemon may be chosen for a general, this includes Legends, Lv.X's, Primes (despite their lack of existence), ect. If a Legend is chosen, then both halves of the legend are put into the Commander Zone, they still count as 2 cards in the deck, both cards are placed into your hand when placing cards into the Lost Zone in order to obtain a General, which follow the same rules as any other General.

12. If a General KO's a Pokemon that defending player takes an extra prize card for that KO'd pokemon.

13. Things that involve counting up all pokemon in play, count only towards the chosen target for the power, body, effect or attack. An exception is made for Dusknoir Lv.X, which works on all players other than the original owner of the card.

Ex: Tyranitar SF's Spinning tail attack only does 30 damage to one chosen player's pokemon, which is considered to be attacked.
Jumpluff GS's Mass attack only counts up the number of pokemon of the Active player, and the chosen defending player to attack.

14. If a pokemon attacks more than once within the same turn, a new defending player may be chosen for the second attack.

15. Stadiums affect everyone, there may only be one stadium out at a time.

16. Status conditions only affect pokemon as inbetween turns in which their turn will end or begin following, however the player's active pokemon is still affected by those status conditions when other players take their turn.

EX: Player 1's Pokemon is poisoned and paralyzed and passes turn, it's pokemon takes poison damage. Player 2 pass turn, player 1's active pokemon does not take poison damage. Player 3 attack's player 1's pokemon with Gliscor LA with Pester. Pester does 80 damage, because player 1's pokemon are still affected by the status conditions.

17. Each player may mulligan like normal, revealing to everyone their hand, and allowing the person with the turn following theirs to draw one more card, shuffle up, and draw 7 new cards. Then when that person is done, they may take another mulligan without showing anyone their hand, or allowing anyone to draw an extra card, and repeat the same manner they had before in order to obtain a 7 card hand with a basic.

I tried to think of everything I could. Tell me if you have any questions.

 

[Sunscorch]

I love this format idea

Might I suggest a change to the life/prize handling?

Basically, I would suggest that all players have ten prizes as normal, but that these prizes act as "Life Points". In other words, that they get to draw a prize when their own pokemon is KO'd.
I think it might add an extra level of strategy to the game, especially considering the singleton rule.

As far as the General is concerned, the player could take two prizes, but have to choose one to Lost Zone?
Or the KOing player could make the choice (blind or otherwise)?
Not sure on that bit

EDIT: Oh, I meant to say also that DPL could be "errata'd" to add prizes to the owner's field, which would allow it to retain its usefulness.

 

[Sabett]

I love this format idea

Might I suggest a change to the life/prize handling?

Basically, I would suggest that all players have ten prizes as normal, but that these prizes act as "Life Points". In other words, that they get to draw a prize when their own pokemon is KO'd.
I think it might add an extra level of strategy to the game, especially considering the singleton rule.

As far as the General is concerned, the player could take two prizes, but have to choose one to Lost Zone?
Or the KOing player could make the choice (blind or otherwise)?
Not sure on that bit

EDIT: Oh, I meant to say also that DPL could be "errata'd" to add prizes to the owner's field, which would allow it to retain its usefulness.

Hmm, I hadn't thought of that. It seems odd to reward a player for having KO'd pokemon, but I like the idea of how it could be like a balance thing. I don't think it's necessary for one of the prizes to be Lost Zoned, it would be a bit adding injury to insult. It would also allow the pokemon that deal with prizes be able to keep their utility like Azelf and DPL. I like it a lot, it also helps keep the game kinda slow. I do like the idea of the general's basically having double fall all the time, but I'm worried about it becoming abusive. Like say Lux X was the General, it wouldn't take too long for him to take up 5 prizes, but then again it wouldn't exactly have a field day with a donphan deck. It should probably be tested, but in the end you could just have it say that the general win comes from getting 7 prizes with the general, and mark it when those prizes are taken. Definetly would be subject to testing, but I'll change it to your way first.

Thanks, that really was a great idea.

EDIT:
I just thought of what if when somebody gets a pokemon KO'd they put a card from the top of their deck as a prize card, and when they reach 10 they lose. I feel this could be a bit too abusive though. But it is a way to make it into a drawback when something gets KO'd other than losing the pokemon. Hmm, what do you think?

 

[Nekizalb]

Sabett, I'd like to say up front that you have some great ideas, and I really enjoy reading them, even if it takes forever to read your essay of a post:lol:

Yeah, points really should be put into place in order to experience the multiplayer format.

I also thought of another rule to add to your deck choices when limited by your general. Also be allowed to play pokemon that can evolve from your general. This allows for eevee decks to really shine, and things like kirlia deck be able to use gardevoir and gallade. Also the Lv.X's of pokemon should not count as having the same name, or else you couldn't run Lv.Xs at all.

EDIT: Just to recap and clear up things about, what I think the rules should be for Pokemon EDH.

1. Cards chosen for the deck list are limited to a count of 1, aside from basic energy.

I don't really like this. While limiting players to one of each card, it limits their options. In Magic, a single strong creature card can fight for a few turns, and you don't have to evolve it to get it to its full potential. On the other hand, Pokemon needs to run multiple copies of each card in order for the game to be successful. Can you imagine running a 100-card SP deck that only runs 1 Cyrus, 1 Poketurn, 1 SP Radar, 1 Spray, and 1 Energy Gain? And you can't run more than a 1-1 Uxie line? I'd still stick to the standard 4-card maximum.

2. Cards chosen for the deck list are limited by the colors of the chosen general, aside from pokemon that evolve from the General, and colorless pokemon. All colorless pokemon are allowed into all deck lists. Pokemon with Dual types may not be included into a deck list if all those types are not also shared with the General.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. You need Uxie or Claydol for support, and you can't run Uxie or Claydol if your General is something like Garchomp C Lv. X or Luxray GL Lv. X. Also, Magic only has 5 types instead of Pokemon's 9, and some generals are three colors.

3. When the game begins the General is set aside from the deck, it is considered to be in a place aside from the Lost Zone and the Discard Pile called the Commander Zone.

Fair enough. If we could find a more Pokemon-related name, that would be nice.

4. At any time, after you draw, and before you attack, you may place one card from your hand into the lost zone, and put your General into your hand, plus another card for each time you have previously placed the General from the Commander zone into your hand in this fashion.

That sounds good. The card from your hand is a fair price, and the subsequent costs also seem fair.

5. A deck list may contain no more or less than 100 cards, including the chosen General.

OK.

6. A General may evolve from or level up from any pokemon that it originally evolves from, or any pokemon that shares a type with the General, and has the appropriate stage needed. All other pokemon evolve normally.

You're putting in mutant draft rules into here- I like it! However, there have to be some things to consider, like if my Lux X General Levels Up from an ERL, does it have 110 HP and yield 1 prize when it's knocked out? And would Thunder Fall hit it?

7. When a General is placed in any manner to the Discard Pile, or the Lost Zone, you have the option to place him back into the Commander Zone. This does not include when a General is placed into a hand or deck.

That's fair.

8. Level X's are unique cards set aside from their counterparts that they level up from. You may include a pokemon and it's Lv.X into a deck list as two separate cards.

That's also fair.

9. Each player begins with a total of 10 prizes. Whenever a player's pokemon becomes KO'd they draw one of their prize cards, when they lose them all they lose and leave the game, taking any sort of cards he had on the field, including stadiums. If a pokemon Ex, something with an Expert Belt attached, or anything of the like is KO'd the prizes taken for the opponent are accurately translated into prizes taken for the defending player.

EX: If a Entei&Raikou Legend with an Expert Belt attached is KO'd by a Salamance Lv.X with Double Fall active for that turn, the player with the Entei&Raikou Legend would take 4 prize cards.

In Magic, players use dice or paper to keep track of how much life they have left. I think we can do the same for "Pokemon EDH", but I like how if a player is at a disadvantage he or she is drawing prizes instead of having the opponent take them.

10. In the event that a pokemon would add prizes to an opponents prize count in anyway shape or form, prizes are added to his own prize pool instead.

OK...

11. Any sort of pokemon may be chosen for a general, this includes Legends, Lv.X's, Primes (despite their lack of existence), ect. If a Legend is chosen, then both halves of the legend are put into the Commander Zone, they still count as 2 cards in the deck, both cards are placed into your hand when placing cards into the Lost Zone in order to obtain a General, which follow the same rules as any other General.

You're bringing a sort of unlimited format to this format. Again, I like that. The two card price for a Legend General seems fair.

12. If a General KO's a Pokemon that defending player takes an extra prize card for that KO'd pokemon.

While a General may have greater attack power than other creatures in Magic, and thus cause the player to lose more life, I still think that Generals should still yield prizes like normal Pokemon.

13. Things that involve counting up all pokemon in play, count only towards the chosen target for the power, body, effect or attack. An exception is made for Dusknoir Lv.X, which works on all players other than the original owner of the card.

Ex: Tyranitar SF's Spinning tail attack only does 30 damage to one chosen player's pokemon, which is considered to be attacked.
Jumpluff GS's Mass attack only counts up the number of pokemon of the Active player, and the chosen defending player to attack.

nooooo i wanna wipe mah oponentz out wih tyranitarz spinnin tail and i wahnt jumluff 2 hit 4 240 lolz!!!
Just kidding; I agree with you on this one.

14. If a pokemon attacks more than once within the same turn, a new defending player may be chosen for the second attack.

Like Raichu Lv. X? This seems fair enough.

15. Stadiums affect everyone, there may only be one stadium out at a time.

This is fair. However, it would be interesting to have as many Stadiums as you want in play, but you can't put two stadiums of the same name in play. Or, you could have the Stadium rule allow each player to put in a Stadium, and have their effects stack if the Stadium is the same. That could be pretty cool, with each player putting in a Snowpoint Temple and then fighting with 150 HP Belted Baltoys. :lol:

16. Status conditions only affect pokemon as inbetween turns in which their turn will end or begin following, however the player's active pokemon is still affected by those status conditions when other players take their turn.

EX: Player 1's Pokemon is poisoned and paralyzed and passes turn, it's pokemon takes poison damage. Player 2 pass turn, player 1's active pokemon does not take poison damage. Player 3 attack's player 1's pokemon with Gliscor LA with Pester. Pester does 80 damage, because player 1's pokemon are still affected by the status conditions.

This is the current ruling for Pokemon TCG double battles; let's keep it that way.

17. Each player may mulligan like normal, revealing to everyone their hand, and allowing the person with the turn following theirs to draw one more card, shuffle up, and draw 7 new cards. Then when that person is done, they may take another mulligan without showing anyone their hand, or allowing anyone to draw an extra card, and repeat the same manner they had before in order to obtain a 7 card hand with a basic.

This is a really good idea. We really need this in the current 60-card format!

Good ideas, Sabett!

 

[MattPL]

Sabett, I've heard of a rule in Magic called the Legend rule. Does that same rule take affect in EDH, and if so, could it also take affect in Pokemon?

 

[Sabett]

Sabett, I'd like to say up front that you have some great ideas, and I really enjoy reading them, even if it takes forever to read your essay of a post:lol:

Yeah sorry, late at night, really excited and I wanted to make sure I got down everything.

I don't really like this. While limiting players to one of each card, it limits their options. In Magic, a single strong creature card can fight for a few turns, and you don't have to evolve it to get it to its full potential. On the other hand, Pokemon needs to run multiple copies of each card in order for the game to be successful. Can you imagine running a 100-card SP deck that only runs 1 Cyrus, 1 Poketurn, 1 SP Radar, 1 Spray, and 1 Energy Gain? And you can't run more than a 1-1 Uxie line? I'd still stick to the standard 4-card maximum.

Well to imitate an SP build in this EDH one could run DRE, DCE, poketurn, mr brineys compassion, mr fuji, scoop up, item finder, Professor Oak, super scoop up, pokemon communication, bebe's, SP Radar. I mean I'm sure there's even more things, (hunter, rescue energy), the problem is, consider those things all at 4. Upping the numbers not only makes the deck more easy to run through, but makes it more powerful as well, even more so with cyrus's conspiracy AND castaway, draw 1 is like drawing them all, while every other deck is at a huge disadvantage to not have access to multiple different cards, for several turns. This also sort of messes with making the General be able to mutant evolve since he can evolve just fine with 4 of his basics running in his deck, but that's a minor issue. I think testing would help out more with this rule, but I really think keeping it at 1 would be necessary. Pokemon has a lot of cards.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. You need Uxie or Claydol for support, and you can't run Uxie or Claydol if your General is something like Garchomp C Lv. X or Luxray GL Lv. X. Also, Magic only has 5 types instead of Pokemon's 9, and some generals are three colors.

Well, I was thinking that was part of the design, this is the rule as they have it in magic, but like you said, magic has Generals ranging from 1-5 colors, we have what 2 at the most? I was thinking colorless generals could run all colors, sort of like mtg's 5 color generals. I also thought about having a certain amount of off color pokemon, like 10 or so. Or maybe predeclared colors that can be different from the general's types. Like say I have lux x, and I say my other type is fighting, that way I can run claydol. We could also limit the 10 card off colors by two specific colors. Like fighting and psychic and then there you go.

We could also limit the pokemon by the colors in their attack cost instead, this way psychic decks could run promocroak, and all kinds of decks would be able to run things that are off type as some sort of counter to other decks. Everyone could also run uxie, and uxie X. The general could also have his attacks be based off of their attacks or types.

But out of all these ideas this is what I think should happen.

Decks are limited to the colors of the the generals attacks and type, pokemon's attack costs must have the same colors as either one, but only one is necessary, not including the colorless cost in the General's attacks.
If the general's type (not attack cost) is colorless any sort of pokemon may be run in there.
Colorless pokemon can be run in any deck, as well as pokemon with only colorless energy in their attacks.

I feel like delcatty isn't being credited enough as a draw engine as I believe it was the thing to play before claydol came out, also everyone can run pidgeot. There's also the absurd amount of trainers everyone can run as a draw engine. This gives us our 5 color generals so to speak, and it also gives us our in-between generals like Gallade. I can also through out the rule about being able to run the evolutions of the general despite type, since I put that in there so eevee decks could have a chance to shine, and it would now be able to run just fine.

Fair enough. If we could find a more Pokemon-related name, that would be nice.

What did Mewtwo call himself in the first movie when he captured pokemon? If it's something really cool that would probably be it, but all I can think of is Pokemon Master Highlander. (I really don't think we'd want to call it Pokemon Master Singleton) That's kinda lame though since it's really the pokemon that's the star of the show, and we're technically the pokemon masters. There's Legendary Pokemon Highlander, but that would sorta break the meaning of what a Legendary pokemon is. Although, not all generals in magic are dragons, or even elder dragons. I think I like Legendary Pokemon Highlander, and have the "generals" be referred to as legendary. Although there are Legend cards... so that might not work. Hmm, basically any sort of alpha pokemon name.

That sounds good. The card from your hand is a fair price, and the subsequent costs also seem fair.

Yeah, I liked your idea, but realized in mtg EDH, they paid the normal cost of the general at first and then started paying more after that. So I figured card for card would be the fair initial amount, instead of 2.

You're putting in mutant draft rules into here- I like it! However, there have to be some things to consider, like if my Lux X General Levels Up from an ERL, does it have 110 HP and yield 1 prize when it's knocked out? And would Thunder Fall hit it?

That was the idea, and if that would happen in mutant draft I would think it would be fine to happen the same way here.

In Magic, players use dice or paper to keep track of how much life they have left. I think we can do the same for "Pokemon EDH", but I like how if a player is at a disadvantage he or she is drawing prizes instead of having the opponent take them.

Yeah, I really like it too, it might seem a little odd at first, but I think it's the best way to translate over life totals for multiplayer.

OK...

This is a preemptive ruling for DPL.

You're bringing a sort of unlimited format to this format. Again, I like that. The two card price for a Legend General seems fair.

Oh, I was trying to word it so that you only need to throw away one card for a Legend general, I don't think they should have to have anymore drawbacks, and it would make them that much more playable.

While a General may have greater attack power than other creatures in Magic, and thus cause the player to lose more life, I still think that Generals should still yield prizes like normal Pokemon.

What if the rule just said, if the general KO's 7 prizes worth of pokemon? And it would all have to be from the same general?

Like Raichu Lv. X? This seems fair enough.

Precisely, once again, trying to think of everything.

This is fair. However, it would be interesting to have as many Stadiums as you want in play, but you can't put two stadiums of the same name in play. Or, you could have the Stadium rule allow each player to put in a Stadium, and have their effects stack if the Stadium is the same. That could be pretty cool, with each player putting in a Snowpoint Temple and then fighting with 150 HP Belted Baltoys. :lol:

Well I initially thought of Stadiums only affecting and only taking out other stadiums to the players beside you and yourself, but I wanted to make sure everyone was involved with everybody else, so i thought just one stadium for all would be interesting. However, after mulling over it, I think this would be the best way. I don't know about stadiums stacking though, I wouldn't want them to be like trainers. I'd still want the stadiums to imitate a playing field that the pokemon are on.

This is a really good idea. We really need this in the current 60-card format!

Yeah, I agree, magic players are given a free mulligan in EDH, so I thought there's no way pokemon couldn't get one in EDH.

Good ideas, Sabett!

Thanks, I'm so happy you brought this up, I think this is a really great idea.

Sabett, I've heard of a rule in Magic called the Legend rule. Does that same rule take affect in EDH, and if so, could it also take affect in Pokemon?

Well, in mtg, EDH, only a specific kind of monster can become a general, and those are Legendary creatures, and what the legend rule states, is that if ever two legends or more are in play at the same time, remove them all immediately from the game. (Lost zone for us) In some EDH groups, your general is allowed to survive this rule, while killing off his copies, although this isn't widely accepted. I kinda don't think this has a place here in pokemon, because what would happen if say one person's general was a pikachu and another person had out a raichu? When that player plays his pikachu, how would the raichu be taken away? Would prizes be taken? And what's to say what is and isn't legendary? Would the generals be considered legendary? Would stage 2's or end of evolutionary lines be legendary? What about the Legend pokemon. Would they be taken away when a copy is played as well? A lot of people don't like this rule in mtg anyway, so I think it's best if avoided here.

 

[MattPL]

Yeah, but I always thought that the Legend rule would make sense in pokemon ig it applied to Legendary pokemon. But that was just a thought that I had. My bro actually asked me if they had the Legend rule in pokemon and I said no.

He got mad because he said that it should not be allowed to place 4 Mewtwo on your bench, for there is only one. :tongue:

 

[Sabett]

Yeah, but I always thought that the Legend rule would make sense in pokemon ig it applied to Legendary pokemon. But that was just a thought that I had. My bro actually asked me if they had the Legend rule in pokemon and I said no.

He got mad because he said that it should not be allowed to place 4 Mewtwo on your bench, for there is only one. :tongue:

Well you can also call out the video game on that one, and I think that the movie about shaymin proved that their can be multiples of legendary pokemon. So legendary doesn't exactly translate to unique either.