Gothitelle in BRs

[Chiapet]

Gothitelle does just fine and in a very strong meta game (Florida) in fact i hate going against it over any other deck, friend of mine here in Florida went 8/1 and defeated me in the finals with his goth build (i was playin ZPST) he defeated 4 ZPST and 2 Reshi's along the way that day. 2 Pichu and 2 Beach is amazing in that deck and against a smart player Black Belt doesn't work either they play the whole game like you have it ,only to totally decimate you at the end with a Goth w/ 8 energy.

It's a very strong deck. My daughter also won a Battle Roads as well with it.

 

[Skytso]

As a ZPS player, I know that in a Gothitelle match, I HAVE to kill Solosis before anything gets evolving. It's not an easy matchup, but I have beaten that deck in BRs multiple times. If ZPS (or Tyram) gets a half decent start, it can outspeed Gothitelle and disrupt enough to keep the Reuniclus and Gothitelle off the field at the same time.

If Gothitelle gets setup, there is almost nothing that ZPS can do to win. Tyram still has the option of putting up Typhlosion and trying to disrupt energy, but unless ZPS includes a tech specifically to deal with Gothitelle, there's not much that can be done if the lock is set up.

 

[the cheating bidoof]

In our area the 1 gothitelle player has won twice and got 2nd twice out of the 5 tournaments he has been to.

 

[Pikabruce]

Goth has only autowins and autolosses, nothing in between. kinda like machamp last season...

I disagree; there are some tough matches. Yesterday I played an opponent who was playing Yanmega/Kingdra/Jirachi. That really cuts down on the available space for damage swap. A Magnezone deck can sometimes be beaten if he doesn't use that much energy and you make him lost burn it all (don't give him any cheap prizes).

 

[Darkmot]

So you need more then 3-1-3? lol. that's what i meant with learn to play.

This thread sucks. just random Pokegm Theorymon.

3-1-3 Magnezone is crap!

Either 3-2-3, 4-2-3 or 4-2-4 are the way to play it. Otherwise you won't be able to constantly get them out.
It's not a question of skill at this point, but more of how lucky you draw.

So for everyone:
In future please test the Match-Ups alot and know how to really do it and not just go for rude theorymon, that you can't even compare with reality.

GL to everyone, you'll need it.
Darkmot.


P.S: Haunter FanBoy, please shut up and stop trolling and I can even imagine that you're not trolling, but really that rude! Thank you.

 

[Shino Bug Master]

Well, Goth has had a little surge of BR wins since this thread started/ Going from 1 to 8. I think that too few good players were playing it and hitting the random atrocitiies this game can throw at you this format, but after testing, more people are playing it and as a result, doing well.

 

[Haunter_FanBoy]

This thread sucks. just random Pokegm Theorymon.

3-1-3 Magnezone is crap!

Either 3-2-3, 4-2-3 or 4-2-4 are the way to play it. Otherwise you won't be able to constantly get them out.
It's not a question of skill at this point, but more of how lucky you draw.

Great reply, you have given about as much information on why a certain line-up is better.

So for everyone:
In future please test the Match-Ups alot and know how to really do it and not just go for rude theorymon, that you can't even compare with reality.

GL to everyone, you'll need it.
Darkmot.


P.S: Haunter FanBoy, please shut up and stop trolling and I can even imagine that you're not trolling, but really that rude! Thank you.

Thanks dude, just make sure you learn how to play.

Replies in bold

on a more informative note: the only matchup where the 4th magnemite is golden is vs ZPST (but not needed). the 2nd magneton is only good vs trainerlock (and not needed either) You can do just fine with 3 magnemite and 1 magneton. a bigger line makes it easier to draw into it so it definitly has it's merits.

But just stop saying you need more than a 3-1-3 line, that's just not true.

I also believe that telling somebody to shut up is against the rules, so i'm reporting you now for being so rude to me.

 

[Dr. Mason]

Keep up the good work.

 

[Darkmot]

Replies in bold

on a more informative note: the only matchup where the 4th magnemite is golden is vs ZPST (but not needed). the 2nd magneton is only good vs trainerlock (and not needed either) You can do just fine with 3 magnemite and 1 magneton. a bigger line makes it easier to draw into it so it definitly has it's merits.

But just stop saying you need more than a 3-1-3 line, that's just not true.

I also believe that telling somebody to shut up is against the rules, so i'm reporting you now for being so rude to me.

Ahahaha I love that, sry that I am a little bit rude, but this is just awesome.
So you're telling me, that the more Mites, Tons and Zones are not good, because in the end you won't need all of them.
Boy, seriously, getting them into play easier by playing more copies is alot better then getting them into play with alot of luck and if they get killed via Catcher or something like that you're pretty screwed with 3-1-3, because you can believe me 1 Mite gets killed by Catcher, probably one Magnezone too and then you have to take about 4-5 prizes with Yanmega what's going to be a tough job.

Just one last thing. -Good story bro.:thumb:

 

[Haunter_FanBoy]

learn to read too, i never said less magnezone is better. it's just not needed, like everybody is suggesting here.

What deck is srsly going to OHKO magnezone twice? and you also have rescue energy.

you say 4-2-3 is the minimum? look i just saved 2 spots which can be used on consistency where your list can not.

"So you're telling me, that the more Mites, Tons and Zones are not good, because in the end you won't need all of them." so you play a 4-4-4 line i assume? this logic is so flawed (unless it's not sarcasm, then you are totally right)

"Boy, seriously, getting them into play easier by playing more copies is alot better then getting them into play with alot of luck"
Maybe you should run some calculations before spouting nonsense, if i spend the 2 cards i gain on more search or draw, how does that affect the odds?

"if they get killed via Catcher or something like that you're pretty screwed with 3-1-3, because you can believe me 1 Mite gets killed by Catcher, probably one Magnezone too"
how are they going to catcher a magnemite if you have a t1 magnemite and a t2 magnezone? only ZPST can do that, and the 4th magnemite is really good for that 1 matchup, it doesn't really do much in other matchups. The other deck that can Easily KO magnezone/mite is Stage1s, which you shouldn't be focussing on magnezone earlygame anyways. Other decks just can't OHKO Magnezone while being disrupted by judge.
how many catchers and recources are they going to draw early on? the draw in this format is just bad and your not going to get a t2 attacker which OHKO's mite + catcher and then a t3 attacker which OHKO's Magnezone + catcher. i mean, you have to take bad situations in check but also keep realistic.

Also: any deck loses going second, the oppo having a t1 collector, a t2 attacker + catcher and a t3 heavy attacker + catcher. that's also where the power of yanmegazone comes from this format, it has the highest chance of doing so.

just another 1 thing, wanna play for money at the ECC? need to get my money for my trip there back.

 

[cabd]

Why don't we just test it out? Both of you play 5 games against the stock list from the goth frontpage article using redshark, or a video camera and real cards, and then post your results here. Would cut down on the banter, and give the rest of us actual data, too.

 

[Arks Arcanum]

Back to the topic at hand...

I think that the biggest reason that Goth hasnt had as many wins as Reshiram or Zekrom based decks is primarily due to them being so new. People will eventually start to recognize its merit and also fine tune their lists which will bring more success for Goth.

Note that this is coming from a ZPST player. I am generally confident against most matches with Zekrom but I hate having to deal with Goth. I honestly have dedicated way more time trying to figure out to beat Goth with ZPST then on any other matchup becuase it is so hard.

Also to note I think there is a solid triangle of deck strategies right now. Speed (Zekrom), Lock (Goth), and Power (Magnezone) where speed beats power, power beats lock, and lock beats speed. Note that this is obviously not a definite relationship and many other decks fit into one of these three categories, I just used these examples as I feel they are a strong representation of their associated category. Coming into battleroads I feel that most people were leaning more towards Power and a little towards speed. That being said people figured that out and the tables turned and speed skyrocketed in success. Now I think people are looking at Lock to rebalance the tables and I honestly suspect an increase in the number of Goth t4s and Goth wins in the last 2 weekends of BRs. Again this is just speculation but after a lot of playtesting with and against Goth and other lock type decks similar to Ross I will definitely say that Goth is good and its finding its place in the meta still.

 

[Aron*]

Every BattleRoads I played at I had to go against a Goth. For the first one I played ZPST and won because he dead drawed for many many turns. In top 4 I played against his friends also playing Goth. He 2-0 me because he had a good list and played smart. I have not seen a magnezone easily beat a Goth yet. The only way you beat a goth with ZPST or Reshy is by getting an above par start while they get a sub-Par start.

For everyone who is saying Reshy has an easy match it dose not have any where close to one.

Yanmega is not an answer unless your opponent is dumb enough to have 1 Solosis. If they have 2 Solosis and you snipe Solosis they will Twins for a candy reuniclus. Which from what this thread is saying mans that it will be game over.

The only REAL counter is Vileplume. With vileplume they cannot max potion or catcher or any of their setup trainers. At one of the battleroads I was at, there was a person playing Yanmega/Vileplume and they got a turn 2 vileplume and the Goth player never got out a Reuniclus.

Just my 2 cents.

now here comes the flaming

 

[Kurama]

Reshi has a pretty easy match if paired with emboar. Gothitelle cant take a flare bltiz.

 

[vegitalian]

Yanmega isn't a be-all end-all solution, but it adds a lot of pressure.

Gothitelle is a fair deck, because it gives auto-play decks without options (Reshiram/ZPS) a really hard time. Quite frankly, ZPS and Reshiphlosion can be played well by anyone off the street, and I'm glad there's something out there that knocks them down to size.

 

[Darkmot]

Why don't we just test it out? Both of you play 5 games against the stock list from the goth frontpage article using redshark, or a video camera and real cards, and then post your results here. Would cut down on the banter, and give the rest of us actual data, too.

Ok, won't answer to HaunterFanboy, because he just won't learn out of it....

However I won't really have to test it, because I already know it, as I have practiced alot for worlds with EmboZone and MegaZone and am doing that atm too.
My results always showed, that 4 Magnemite is the way to go, because it is so important to get out more Magnezones, because they're not safe enough to just get out 2 per game... Even in a format withou catcher....
In the end I got 13th at worlds, as my deck was consistent enough to beat decks like tyram.

Now it is even more important to get out these zones, because without it you have hardly any drawpower and you are screwed. As for that your oppenent is most likely going to catcher-up your mites and if you just play 3 you won't ever get out more than two zones, what is very weak and would mean, that you loose to most decksw if you don't get out everything by turn2/3, what is nearly impossible.

Darkmot.

 

[Jaeger]

Play in worlds and get back to me. Maybe my goth list is just better than most (well, I know it is)

Play in Worlds 8 times and get back to me.

Geez people aren't we above this crap, the I'm better than you...or my idea is right because you suck is down right childish, makes you look like an idiot and does nothing to prove your argument.

 

[Darkmot]

Play in Worlds 8 times and get back to me.

Geez people aren't we above this crap, the I'm better than you...or my idea is right because you suck is down right childish, makes you look like an idiot and does nothing to prove your argument.

I know that it's not good, but however if you are bored you're willing to write everything ;D
Damn me if it made me look like an idiot, but I hate to read theorymon like HaunterFB published.
That's just aweful, because more unexperienced players will believe it and then we've got a problem.
This should really be avoided....
Darkmot.

BTW i mean what i wrote, just thinking it's good to say here, even if you quoted sbdy else!

 

[Jaeger]

Yes but everybody is entitled to their own opinion and its not always wrong just simply different, plus the whole respect thing plays in to. To be perfectly honest when I saw your Worlds list I thought it was crap. But I didn't go in your thread telling everybody how badly I thought you sucked and you would never have gotten an invite playing here in the U.S. with lists like that. It have been childish and immauture of me to do so, plus it would have only been my opinion.

 

[Haunter_FanBoy]

I know that it's not good, but however if you are bored you're willing to write everything ;D
Damn me if it made me look like an idiot, but I hate to read theorymon like HaunterFB published.
That's just aweful, because more unexperienced players will believe it and then we've got a problem.
This should really be avoided....
Darkmot.

BTW i mean what i wrote, just thinking it's good to say here, even if you quoted sbdy else!

You are great man, throw a fight and when you can't win it go and ignore me. You suck at pokemon and literally sacked your way to 13th place. you have never won any decent sized event out of your superbad country. please stop talking like you know all.

you don't even know me, or my accomplishments.