Thanks. Nice screen name, PokeDaddy!
How to make it fair for the West Coast and everyone else next year
- Thread starter Scizor
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Thanks. Nice screen name, PokeDaddy!
The system is not unfair. As a matter of fact, NOTHING about this is unfair or has anything to do with fairness.
What it is is UNFORTUNATE. It is unfortunate that there are not tournaments closer to you.
But this is no different than players in North Dakota, Wyoming, or Montana. Or even Alaska.
What it is is UNFORTUNATE. It is unfortunate that there are not tournaments closer to you.
But this is no different than players in North Dakota, Wyoming, or Montana. Or even Alaska.
DarkJake
New Member
Yes =D
Tournaments
I think that my last post spoke directly to what the west coast is trying to battle. Certain tournaments Like States are not going to be geographically fair to everyone. That is the fact of the matter. So in order to help alleviate the effect that states has on rating I simply suggested that there be more tournaments run in your area. This is being sensitive to your situation. Perhaps State Champs shouldn't carry a high K value? Perhaps we should make states a more casual tournament.
The tournament organizors in California should be running more Citys and more Battle Roads. We ran 7Citys in New England alone, never mind NY, NJ or MD. So rather than trying to limit players on how many events they can play in I think we should be spending our time on how to we make the system fair. I offered to help anyone who actually wants to go and help you run more events in your area Pokedad. I don't see this as being anything but positive. I do know that we need to tweak the system so that we don't constantly get this type of dialogue.
Either way my message is very simple let's create something that all of us can be happy with. We don't need NEGATIVITY. We don't need the complaining frankly I think you guys on the West Coast and California in particular have it really good, it could be worse you could live in North Dakota, Montana, Hawaii or Alaska. Where are the closest tournaments if you live there? At least your Cali folk have the fun, sun sand and surf. Let's get more people working on running more events. Why can't weekly tournaments at local stores become part of the ratings program? That would certainly help wipe out any distance disparity.
think about it
still in New England but wanting to visit Hawaii
Tom Shea
I think that my last post spoke directly to what the west coast is trying to battle. Certain tournaments Like States are not going to be geographically fair to everyone. That is the fact of the matter. So in order to help alleviate the effect that states has on rating I simply suggested that there be more tournaments run in your area. This is being sensitive to your situation. Perhaps State Champs shouldn't carry a high K value? Perhaps we should make states a more casual tournament.
The tournament organizors in California should be running more Citys and more Battle Roads. We ran 7Citys in New England alone, never mind NY, NJ or MD. So rather than trying to limit players on how many events they can play in I think we should be spending our time on how to we make the system fair. I offered to help anyone who actually wants to go and help you run more events in your area Pokedad. I don't see this as being anything but positive. I do know that we need to tweak the system so that we don't constantly get this type of dialogue.
Either way my message is very simple let's create something that all of us can be happy with. We don't need NEGATIVITY. We don't need the complaining frankly I think you guys on the West Coast and California in particular have it really good, it could be worse you could live in North Dakota, Montana, Hawaii or Alaska. Where are the closest tournaments if you live there? At least your Cali folk have the fun, sun sand and surf. Let's get more people working on running more events. Why can't weekly tournaments at local stores become part of the ratings program? That would certainly help wipe out any distance disparity.
think about it
still in New England but wanting to visit Hawaii
Tom Shea
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LionheartEX
Active Member
I'm going to agree with Scizor *shock*
I think what needed to happen is POP should have done with you guys limited the amount CC/State/Regs/BRs that you guys could enter.
OR
Create a cutoff for each premier event. i.e, during the CC Series, if you enter more than 3 CCs, the ones after the third cannot change your ranking at all. This way you still get to play, and its fairer for those in smaller areas who siply cant enter that many of one premier event.
This also creates an opportunity for people who only have VERY few premier events a year, to compete in the rankings and ratngs system on a Worldwide Basis. I personally would have loved to see my name on top of the rankings this year, worldwide, but, with only 3 premier events that I can really enter, I cant compare.
For people on Malaysia etc who have less premier events than us its even harder :\
meh just random thoughts thrown out there
Reflecting back, as much as I LOVE having an invite to worlds- I know I got it waaaaaaay easy compared to most.
I think what needed to happen is POP should have done with you guys limited the amount CC/State/Regs/BRs that you guys could enter.
OR
Create a cutoff for each premier event. i.e, during the CC Series, if you enter more than 3 CCs, the ones after the third cannot change your ranking at all. This way you still get to play, and its fairer for those in smaller areas who siply cant enter that many of one premier event.
This also creates an opportunity for people who only have VERY few premier events a year, to compete in the rankings and ratngs system on a Worldwide Basis. I personally would have loved to see my name on top of the rankings this year, worldwide, but, with only 3 premier events that I can really enter, I cant compare.
For people on Malaysia etc who have less premier events than us its even harder :\
meh just random thoughts thrown out there
Reflecting back, as much as I LOVE having an invite to worlds- I know I got it waaaaaaay easy compared to most.
Hurray!
That's what I mean by constructive and creative suggestions that can help relieve the distance disparities. Thanks Keith. I would go so far as to suggest that the CA State championship be held in the North every other (or even every third year at a minimum) to make the game more accessible to the players in the North.
Tom Shea, the idea of making local league play count toward ratings is novel as well. I don't know how it addresses the specific distance problems faced by the West Coast players though. Players everywhere will get ratings points for local play, but West Coast players will still face the distance penalty outlined in my previous post, and will therefore lag behind players who are from areas blessed with tiny states. I do appreciate that you are trying to come up with solutions though. One more thing: Northern Californians don't play in our fun sunny sandy surf, it is very cold and somewhat dangerous with rocky shorelines and deadly undertows; better to allude to Redwood trees, vineyards, organic farms, and happy cows (while ignoring incredibly long distance travel to Pokemon tourneys).
EternalFire
New Member
In a perfect world the US govenment would spilt up the state and call it as such. Until that happens it'll never be an option in our game. Besides, bragging rights of who is the REAL State champ which would drag on over 10+ pages on these forums. :tongue:
You have PTOs in the NorCal and So Cal areas, so it could very well happen (2 SCs). Heck, the 2 winners could meet at the regional or Nats for a STS type match, best 2/3...winner gets bragging rights over the state!
On the issue of local tourneys counting towards rankings....will NEVER happen IMO. That would be subject to abuse like no other. I can see it now....a local player, never playing anything more than a BR or CC, racking up Ws in 40+ weekly local tourneys getting an invite to Worlds. Whatta joke.
Keith
On the issue of local tourneys counting towards rankings....will NEVER happen IMO. That would be subject to abuse like no other. I can see it now....a local player, never playing anything more than a BR or CC, racking up Ws in 40+ weekly local tourneys getting an invite to Worlds. Whatta joke.
Keith
ToysRUsKid
Active Member
Thank you John for that wonderful post.
You are welcome.
I will say that 2 1/2 hour travel each way to Santa Clara and all, I am so proud to be a distant member of Team Invasion. Susan Bartlett is the best PTO that POP could hope for. The entire staff, all of the parents, and all of the players have been incredibly welcoming and supportive af Charlie and I over the last 5 years.
Our area is blessed with one of the largest leagues in the country, and some of the best players, both in skill and sportsmanship, that I have encountered anywhere.
I will be traveling to Hawaii this year and will be trying to Grinder; I hope my son Charlie Grinds in for his 3rd straight year. I look forward to seeing Susan, as POP has to be bringing their best PTOs to staff Worlds (Susan has been PTO to a top 2 World finalist, Canadian National Champion, and US National Champion - to not bring her would say that the West Coast and Northern California don't matter to POP/PUI). I look forward to seeing brothers Daniel and Jason who have their invites. I look forward to seeing anyone else who goes to Hawaii for a chance at Worlds, but is willing to settle for a day at the pool on Saturday if things don't go well.
We have great players in our area; while I am not one of them, I would like to see a more level opportunity field for our great players like Chad, Chris, Reed, Wesley and Kyle (I know I missed many, but you get the idea).
If Charlie Grinds in this year, it will be with the help of Chris, Daniel and Reed. Pokemon players in Northern California share successes, and the hardships of long distance travel. I posted in this thread because it is right to ask POP to read and consider Chad's original post, and all of the posts in this thread, in the spirit of making this game we play and love better.
This is what I see all the time driving to Tournaments all over California. Will keep on wishing on the day that Northern Cali gets States
Hope fully this year, I might step up and start holding Cities and Battle Roads. If all gose well. It all depends on help and all
This post has been mostly constructive. Keith's suggest of splitting up CA into two divisions may be an answer, who knows, but it is creative. But how does that help someone in Utah? The challenge with going on a different path for events is fairness to all, not just CA. One may consider N amount of tourneys per a given population density with a minimum number of events = Y.
This is not the first time in history that disparity of population vs state size vs fairness has come into play. Just study the US Electoral College System and gain a bit of perspective.
On another note, Tom Shea has posted several times within this thread that a more organic/grassroots approach is better, that is, more fiscally appropriate to PUI and helps the player base. He has offered to help folks set up tournaments in their area and amongst other things. Tom is a good friend and is incredibly knowledgeable in the area of Gaming. This is his living, he has done this for many years and he PTOs some of the largest events on the East Coast for Magic (700-1000 is not unreasonable). By the fact that he has offered to help the Pokémon Community to GROW on the WEST COAST while he lives on the EAST COAST is amazing. If that is not a sign of good will, I don't know what is.
Some data:
Each city was queried on line at POP home site for active leagues. A given zip code was entered and all leagues within 100 miles were displayed. There may be some minor overlap (1) between San Fran and Sacramento.
CA, Los Angeles = 14 Leagues
CA, San Francisco = 14 Leagues
CA, Sacramento = 14 Leagues
MA, Westboro = 14 Leagues
NY, NYC = 15 Leagues
NY, Albany = 4 Leagues
NY, Buffalo = 3 Leagues
I am quite sure that if you took NE (MA, NH, CT, VT, ME, RI) + NY one could closely approximate that they are very near in area. From a League perspective, CA is on par or better than the Northeast. So, let's look at the next step. What are the tourneys -
BR = As many as you can at any league where you can sanction an event
CC = As many as you can at any league where you can sanction an event
SC = Just one per state (for now wrt CA)
RC = 14 Nationwide
NC = 1
If there were more BRs and CCs in CA, then you would find that State championships would have a far less impact on ratings than is presently occurring. (somewhere in this thread I think I read there were less than 10 BRs in CA).
My take away from this is that you have an EAST COAST PTO offering to help WEST COAST folks set up events to INCREASE the availably of events that produce POINTS.
This may sound harsh but I do not intend it to be so. I say this in all my meetings, if you don't show up, you lose your right to vote. Similarly, if you don't start a grassroots method for increased OP, then complaining about the system is out of bounds.
This is in no way any criticism of any TO/PTO on the west coast. I think the OP community just needs a heck of a lot more of you than you presently have.
Very Respectfully,
Steve
This is not the first time in history that disparity of population vs state size vs fairness has come into play. Just study the US Electoral College System and gain a bit of perspective.
On another note, Tom Shea has posted several times within this thread that a more organic/grassroots approach is better, that is, more fiscally appropriate to PUI and helps the player base. He has offered to help folks set up tournaments in their area and amongst other things. Tom is a good friend and is incredibly knowledgeable in the area of Gaming. This is his living, he has done this for many years and he PTOs some of the largest events on the East Coast for Magic (700-1000 is not unreasonable). By the fact that he has offered to help the Pokémon Community to GROW on the WEST COAST while he lives on the EAST COAST is amazing. If that is not a sign of good will, I don't know what is.
Some data:
Each city was queried on line at POP home site for active leagues. A given zip code was entered and all leagues within 100 miles were displayed. There may be some minor overlap (1) between San Fran and Sacramento.
CA, Los Angeles = 14 Leagues
CA, San Francisco = 14 Leagues
CA, Sacramento = 14 Leagues
MA, Westboro = 14 Leagues
NY, NYC = 15 Leagues
NY, Albany = 4 Leagues
NY, Buffalo = 3 Leagues
I am quite sure that if you took NE (MA, NH, CT, VT, ME, RI) + NY one could closely approximate that they are very near in area. From a League perspective, CA is on par or better than the Northeast. So, let's look at the next step. What are the tourneys -
BR = As many as you can at any league where you can sanction an event
CC = As many as you can at any league where you can sanction an event
SC = Just one per state (for now wrt CA)
RC = 14 Nationwide
NC = 1
If there were more BRs and CCs in CA, then you would find that State championships would have a far less impact on ratings than is presently occurring. (somewhere in this thread I think I read there were less than 10 BRs in CA).
My take away from this is that you have an EAST COAST PTO offering to help WEST COAST folks set up events to INCREASE the availably of events that produce POINTS.
This may sound harsh but I do not intend it to be so. I say this in all my meetings, if you don't show up, you lose your right to vote. Similarly, if you don't start a grassroots method for increased OP, then complaining about the system is out of bounds.
This is in no way any criticism of any TO/PTO on the west coast. I think the OP community just needs a heck of a lot more of you than you presently have.
Very Respectfully,
Steve
Mama_Schutte
New Member
What also lacks in Cali ,is the amount of tournaments in San Diego County. Not one Battle Road was in San Diego this year. We all had to drive North 1 1/2 to 2 hours each way. Now looking on the pre-releases, in Aug, we only have one, which is in Vista. What San Diego needs, are profressors that are willing to run these events. I would, but I am not a profressor. San Diego is a big city with lots of players, without local tournaments. Is anyone willing to step up to run these events? The LA professors are great and come down to run pre-releasese and Cities. THANK YOU for putting in your time for these events. I belive there are three leagues in San Diego, plus an undergrounds banned league. Anyways, Cali does have a GREAT players!!!. Yes, two state tourneys, would be nice, but we all, including AZ and NV would come to both...
Bolt
New Member
I've advocated this from the start! Something like 4 Cities, 2 States, 2 Regionals - this doesn't hinder the people who can travel because there's still prizes to pay for, and it doesn't hurt those who can't because they won't fall too far behind. Keep in mind that people were travelling far for tourneys last year when rankings didn't matter.
Poor Trainer
New Member
I came on for another reason, but the urge to post here kept increasing.
Our group here in the Sacramento region also share the distance pain that many Northern California players do (especially before we were able to host our own events like City Championships and now Battle Roads (and when we were able to get those events up and running in our area, it was a big victory for us)). I like Santa Clara and Team Invasion because of the fact that they have parents who play the game and go all out to see the game grow and such (I always believed that the best way to make Pokémon grow is to have such hard working parents that will do a lot for the game in that region). Cheers for the next season that is about to come upon us.
PokeDad: Great post and hope that you and Charlie do have fun at Worlds (we'll come too if my Aluminum Foil boat works out).
Epyon0015: Hope it all goes well for you.
Tadreth: Congrats and good luck.
Now to go on to what I came for, to find out what happened to my "Professor" icon.
Our group here in the Sacramento region also share the distance pain that many Northern California players do (especially before we were able to host our own events like City Championships and now Battle Roads (and when we were able to get those events up and running in our area, it was a big victory for us)). I like Santa Clara and Team Invasion because of the fact that they have parents who play the game and go all out to see the game grow and such (I always believed that the best way to make Pokémon grow is to have such hard working parents that will do a lot for the game in that region). Cheers for the next season that is about to come upon us.
PokeDad: Great post and hope that you and Charlie do have fun at Worlds (we'll come too if my Aluminum Foil boat works out).
Epyon0015: Hope it all goes well for you.
Tadreth: Congrats and good luck.
Now to go on to what I came for, to find out what happened to my "Professor" icon.
~Blazi-King~
Active Member
Like me? :frown:
Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:
Texas has an amendment (out of its 400+) that states that it can separate into 4 separate states, as part of its agreement to be re-integrated into the Union after its brief reign as a independent country. (If the people should choose too (pending a super majority vote, etc)).
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OK all those who have griped, how many of you have stepped up and will recruit players, start leagues, and become a TO?
This whole entitlement issue around Pokémon loses the fact that this is a fun, competitive, friendly,and profit providing business.
- Problem: CA folks are not capable of playing in an equitable amount of Premier events as the East Coast thus making the rating/ranking invite system biased and unfair. West Coast has to travel more to get to events thus limiting the amount of events West Coast people can go to.
- Cause: Not enough events spread through out West Coast (Not PUI owes you this cause you live in CA and are nice). West Coast has to travel more to get to events thus limiting the amount of events West Coast people can go to.
- Solution: Have more events. Any thought of eliminating events is ludicrous. Someday when you are accountable to a profit making organization, cutting back on venues to make it fair to some but not others is just plain dumb economics.
- Plan: Either move to the East Coast or get more tourneys running. How many states has TX? ONE They aren't whining, they deal.
This whole entitlement issue around Pokémon loses the fact that this is a fun, competitive, friendly,and profit providing business.
- Status