Chiefmcfuz
New Member
I would definitely be interested in information expanding the setups in this thread.
I Double Theme Decks: Improving Through Double-Decking
- Thread starter MegaVelocibot
- Start date
I would definitely be interested in information expanding the setups in this thread.
MegaVelocibot
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Apologies, I had thought I had put up the EX review at some point; I know I wrote it up. I'll make a few updates to it before eventually posting it. First, though, will come the Boundaries Crossed double-decks.
bullados
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For the Ice Shock PCD, I could easily see some sort of play of energy acceleration based on Blastoise and Black Kyurem. There are plenty of good Trainers to work around. The question is, what second line to run? You can go Disruption with Jellicent, but it leaves you with only 4 attackers. You can go speed-stall with Golduck, but there's no power behind that thing. You can go with power with Electivire, but he's kinda expensive. Lopunny has the potential to be decent, I'm just not sure if it's really worth it.
For the Cold Fire PCD, the easiest thing to do would be energy acceleration of a different sort. Delcatty and Dunsparce are a good starting pair, while White Kyurem can clean up the mess. The Trainers aren't as good as the Ice Shock PCD, but the Pokemon are probably easier to work with. You can try and fit in another evolution line, but I think that would just take away from the Gather Energy and Draw strategy. That Gather Energy also does 30 damage is a HUGE help for this deck.
For the Cold Fire PCD, the easiest thing to do would be energy acceleration of a different sort. Delcatty and Dunsparce are a good starting pair, while White Kyurem can clean up the mess. The Trainers aren't as good as the Ice Shock PCD, but the Pokemon are probably easier to work with. You can try and fit in another evolution line, but I think that would just take away from the Gather Energy and Draw strategy. That Gather Energy also does 30 damage is a HUGE help for this deck.
MegaVelocibot
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Piezoelectric (Double IceShock)
Pokémon: 13
4 Black Kyurem
2 Blastoise
3 Wartortle
4 Squirtle
Trainers: 24
4 Switch
4 Energy Search
4 Cheren
4 Energy Retrieval
4 Great Ball
2 Pokemon Communication
2 Skyla
Energy: 15
12 Water Energy
3 Lightning Energy
Free slots: 8
Piezoelectricity refers to the phenomenon of electrical charge gathering in solids, usually crystalline material, when put under pressure. Not only doe it live up to its namesake, but the Piezoelectric double-deck can also be quite a shock for your opponents even when the pressure is not yet on. This can be attributed to the Blastoise evolutionary line, which bypasses one of the fundamental restrictions of most low-level decks: multiple Energy attachments per turn without the usage of an attack. (As a reminder, this is the same reason I suggest a doubled Furious Knights as a strong option for new players.)
While not an ideal attacker, multiple Black Kyurem serve the primary function of a high-HP wall of a Basic Pokémon to set up behind. It can, of course, also be used for attacking. There exist multiple options for directions to take this deck foundation:
4 Lopunny and 4 Buneary allow you to heal multiple Pokémon at the same time; this is made easier by the high Switch count this deck runs, allowing you to retreat damaged Pokémon with no loss of Energy. To compare the attack to a card from the previous format, it is like being able to use a Life Herb on each of your Pokémon (though without the removal of Status Conditions from your Lopunny).
Room for Improvement: It should be somewhat easy, though not entirely necessary, to trade for or obtain Victini (NVI14/NVI98/BW32), improving your odds of success with Lopunny's attack, in addition to allowing for reflips on the attacks of Squirtle, Wartortle, and Black Kyurem.
2 Jellicent, 3 Frillish, 1 Wartortle, and 2 Water Energy allow for you to disrupt your opponent; unless their Retreat Cost is reduced to zero (such as Darkrai-EX), your opponent's Pokémon will have a Retreat Cost increased by one for each of your Jellicent in play. This can make it more difficult for your opponent to retreat damaged Pokémon, possibly making it easier for you to score knock-outs. The Jellicent line of Pokémon don't have strong attacks; they are better left to the Bench, while attacking with Blastoise and Black Kyurem.
2 Electivire, 3 Electabuzz, and 3 Lightning Energy allow for you to damage your opponent's Benched Pokémon before they even have the chance to come Active! The Energy costs are somewhat high, but with a Blastoise in play, they should be easier to manage. This also provides you with a third Energy type (after Water and Dragon) to attack with, increasing your odds of hitting your opponent's deck for its Weakness. This does, however, come at the disadvantage of sometimes not having the right Energy type to attack with.
Room for Improvement: The issue of having the “right Energy” can be alleviated in one of two ways. First, with the use of Kyurem (NVI34 / BW44)L its Water-type Glaciate attack takes the same number of Energy to attack with, all Water or Colorless. It comes with the additional benefits of having 130 HP, and an Outrage attack that becomes stronger the more Kyurem is damaged. Second, using Blend WFLM Energy, a Special Energy card that provides both the Water and Lightning type Energy needed in this deck, will keep you from worrying about having one or the other. However, this comes at the cost of not being able to be searched for by Energy Search, as well as the risk of being discarded by Enhanced Hammer.
Pokémon: 13
4 Black Kyurem
2 Blastoise
3 Wartortle
4 Squirtle
Trainers: 24
4 Switch
4 Energy Search
4 Cheren
4 Energy Retrieval
4 Great Ball
2 Pokemon Communication
2 Skyla
Energy: 15
12 Water Energy
3 Lightning Energy
Free slots: 8
Piezoelectricity refers to the phenomenon of electrical charge gathering in solids, usually crystalline material, when put under pressure. Not only doe it live up to its namesake, but the Piezoelectric double-deck can also be quite a shock for your opponents even when the pressure is not yet on. This can be attributed to the Blastoise evolutionary line, which bypasses one of the fundamental restrictions of most low-level decks: multiple Energy attachments per turn without the usage of an attack. (As a reminder, this is the same reason I suggest a doubled Furious Knights as a strong option for new players.)
While not an ideal attacker, multiple Black Kyurem serve the primary function of a high-HP wall of a Basic Pokémon to set up behind. It can, of course, also be used for attacking. There exist multiple options for directions to take this deck foundation:
4 Lopunny and 4 Buneary allow you to heal multiple Pokémon at the same time; this is made easier by the high Switch count this deck runs, allowing you to retreat damaged Pokémon with no loss of Energy. To compare the attack to a card from the previous format, it is like being able to use a Life Herb on each of your Pokémon (though without the removal of Status Conditions from your Lopunny).
Room for Improvement: It should be somewhat easy, though not entirely necessary, to trade for or obtain Victini (NVI14/NVI98/BW32), improving your odds of success with Lopunny's attack, in addition to allowing for reflips on the attacks of Squirtle, Wartortle, and Black Kyurem.
2 Jellicent, 3 Frillish, 1 Wartortle, and 2 Water Energy allow for you to disrupt your opponent; unless their Retreat Cost is reduced to zero (such as Darkrai-EX), your opponent's Pokémon will have a Retreat Cost increased by one for each of your Jellicent in play. This can make it more difficult for your opponent to retreat damaged Pokémon, possibly making it easier for you to score knock-outs. The Jellicent line of Pokémon don't have strong attacks; they are better left to the Bench, while attacking with Blastoise and Black Kyurem.
2 Electivire, 3 Electabuzz, and 3 Lightning Energy allow for you to damage your opponent's Benched Pokémon before they even have the chance to come Active! The Energy costs are somewhat high, but with a Blastoise in play, they should be easier to manage. This also provides you with a third Energy type (after Water and Dragon) to attack with, increasing your odds of hitting your opponent's deck for its Weakness. This does, however, come at the disadvantage of sometimes not having the right Energy type to attack with.
Room for Improvement: The issue of having the “right Energy” can be alleviated in one of two ways. First, with the use of Kyurem (NVI34 / BW44)L its Water-type Glaciate attack takes the same number of Energy to attack with, all Water or Colorless. It comes with the additional benefits of having 130 HP, and an Outrage attack that becomes stronger the more Kyurem is damaged. Second, using Blend WFLM Energy, a Special Energy card that provides both the Water and Lightning type Energy needed in this deck, will keep you from worrying about having one or the other. However, this comes at the cost of not being able to be searched for by Energy Search, as well as the risk of being discarded by Enhanced Hammer.
Generally what I had in mind.
i would drop a potion and 2 energy search for another energy retrival and 2 giant capes. with Cheren and Milotic yoiu don't REALLY need all that energy searching,but it's good to have a cople of those on the deck to take you out of an awkard situation. aside from that,pretty solid deck listing there.
MegaVelocibot
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Could be more specific as to what you are referring to? Last I checked, there was only one Giant Cape per DragonSpeed theme deck, thus the max of two from a double-deck. The extra Energy Search aren't as much for searching for Energy as they are for thinning the deck down, increasing your chances of drawing something that isn't an Energy at the beginning of your turn. (By pulling more things out of the deck that are Energy with Energy Searches, you diminish the number of cards remaining in your deck that are Energy.)
sorry,by the time i posted this,i didn't noticed that therew was actually a third page! XD i was referencing your double dragon speed deck.
Chiefmcfuz
New Member
Any chance with the new decks?
MegaVelocibot
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I've been putting this off for some time, simply because I've found these double-decks to be inferior to IceShock. That said, I have finally finished testing, and come to the conclusion that I was trying too hard to incorporate too many lines of the theme decks to make the double-deck functional. So, I've separated it into two decks.
Pokémon: 22
3 White Kyurem
2 Samurott
3 Dewott
3 Oshawott
3 Delibird
4 Delcatty
4 Skitty
Trainers: 23
3 Energy Retrieval
4 Energy Search
4 Great Ball
2 Pokémon Communication
4 Potion
4 Hugh
2 Skyla
Energy: 15
11 Water Energy
4 Fire Energy
Strategy: Delibird and Delcatty both support the set-up of the Pokemon lines, through deck-searching and Energy acceleration. There aren't any hard-hitting Pokemon that set up fast, though, so be prepared to sacrifice Pokemon to power up other ones. Potion will help buy some time.
This deck can also function just fine without the big basic Pokemon White Kyurem as well as the Fire Energy to power it:
Pokémon: 22
2 Samurott
4 Dewott
4 Oshawott
4 Delibird
4 Delcatty
4 Skitty
Trainers: 24
4 Energy Retrieval
4 Energy Search
4 Great Ball
2 Pokémon Communication
4 Potion
4 Hugh
2 Skyla
Energy: 14
14 Water Energy
And, for Fire-types:
Pokémon: 22
4 White Kyurem
4 Darmanitan
4 Darumaka
2 Delibird
4 Delcatty
4 Skitty
Trainers: 23
3 Energy Retrieval
4 Energy Search
4 Great Ball
2 Pokémon Communication
4 Potion
4 Hugh
2 Skyla
Energy: 15
11 Fire Energy
4 Water Energy
Pokémon: 22
3 White Kyurem
2 Samurott
3 Dewott
3 Oshawott
3 Delibird
4 Delcatty
4 Skitty
Trainers: 23
3 Energy Retrieval
4 Energy Search
4 Great Ball
2 Pokémon Communication
4 Potion
4 Hugh
2 Skyla
Energy: 15
11 Water Energy
4 Fire Energy
Strategy: Delibird and Delcatty both support the set-up of the Pokemon lines, through deck-searching and Energy acceleration. There aren't any hard-hitting Pokemon that set up fast, though, so be prepared to sacrifice Pokemon to power up other ones. Potion will help buy some time.
This deck can also function just fine without the big basic Pokemon White Kyurem as well as the Fire Energy to power it:
Pokémon: 22
2 Samurott
4 Dewott
4 Oshawott
4 Delibird
4 Delcatty
4 Skitty
Trainers: 24
4 Energy Retrieval
4 Energy Search
4 Great Ball
2 Pokémon Communication
4 Potion
4 Hugh
2 Skyla
Energy: 14
14 Water Energy
And, for Fire-types:
Pokémon: 22
4 White Kyurem
4 Darmanitan
4 Darumaka
2 Delibird
4 Delcatty
4 Skitty
Trainers: 23
3 Energy Retrieval
4 Energy Search
4 Great Ball
2 Pokémon Communication
4 Potion
4 Hugh
2 Skyla
Energy: 15
11 Fire Energy
4 Water Energy
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Thanks alot for this information! My girlfriend and I our new players, and double decking to improve our theme decks never crossed my mind. We have been buying booster packs looking for cards we need but this will be much easier and more consistent until we know what we are doing a little more.
MegaVelocibot
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I'm so sorry for this, PlasmaShadow players. There's so little I can do with this theme deck, because almost none of the Pokemon work together in any discernible way. This hurts quite a bit, considering how cool I consider Giratina to be.
Pokémon: 22
4 Giratina
2 Weezing
3 Koffing
2 Watchog
3 Patrat
4 Amoonguss
4 Foongus
Trainers: 22
4 Energy Search
4 Colress
4 Escape Rope
4 Pokémon Communication
4 Team Plasma Grunt
2 Hypnotoxic Laser
Energy: 16
12 Psychic Energy
4 Grass Energy
Strategy: The Amoonguss exist in this deck only to be discarded by Team Plasma Grunt, or to a lesser degree to get a different Pokémon via Pokémon Communication. Avoid discarding other Team Plasma Pokemon, as you lack any discard recovery in this deck. Save Hypnotoxic Laser for using with Giratina's Hex, or to get the last knock out/s in a match. Weezing spreads damage, increasing the damage that Watchog's Second Bite does. Please look for a more reliable, better-hitting theme deck to double.
EDIT: Removed Garbodor line. Original use in strategy - "The Garbodor gives you an excuse to use it in battle, letting your opponent know the deck they beat was utter trash. Joking aside, it can do some damage, but its second attack takes far too long to prepare."
Barrel of Flaming Monkeys (Double PlasmaClaw)
Pokémon: 21
4 Druddigon
2 Infernape
3 Monferno
4 Chimchar
4 Simisear
4 Pansear
Trainers: 22
4 Energy Search
4 Colress
2 Hypnotoxic Laser
4 Pokémon Communication
4 Potion
4 Team Plasma Grunt
Energy: 17
4 Water Energy
13 Fire Energy
Strategy: Take advantage of low-Energy attacks, though beware the Energy loss from using Infernape's powerful Inferno attack. More details in the future.
The third, oddly enough, was building 30 card decks, which were built around a particular strategy. From there, I would combine two (ensuring I had no cards that had more than 4 copies) to have a very modular deck-building system, where I could rely on either strategy as need be. While it seemed like a great idea at the time, I later realized that sometimes one strategy might get in the way of another, realizing that many of the double-half decks I used that both focused on the same strategy worked better than those that didn't.
Pokémon: 22
4 Giratina
2 Weezing
3 Koffing
2 Watchog
3 Patrat
4 Amoonguss
4 Foongus
Trainers: 22
4 Energy Search
4 Colress
4 Escape Rope
4 Pokémon Communication
4 Team Plasma Grunt
2 Hypnotoxic Laser
Energy: 16
12 Psychic Energy
4 Grass Energy
Strategy: The Amoonguss exist in this deck only to be discarded by Team Plasma Grunt, or to a lesser degree to get a different Pokémon via Pokémon Communication. Avoid discarding other Team Plasma Pokemon, as you lack any discard recovery in this deck. Save Hypnotoxic Laser for using with Giratina's Hex, or to get the last knock out/s in a match. Weezing spreads damage, increasing the damage that Watchog's Second Bite does. Please look for a more reliable, better-hitting theme deck to double.
EDIT: Removed Garbodor line. Original use in strategy - "The Garbodor gives you an excuse to use it in battle, letting your opponent know the deck they beat was utter trash. Joking aside, it can do some damage, but its second attack takes far too long to prepare."
Barrel of Flaming Monkeys (Double PlasmaClaw)
Pokémon: 21
4 Druddigon
2 Infernape
3 Monferno
4 Chimchar
4 Simisear
4 Pansear
Trainers: 22
4 Energy Search
4 Colress
2 Hypnotoxic Laser
4 Pokémon Communication
4 Potion
4 Team Plasma Grunt
Energy: 17
4 Water Energy
13 Fire Energy
Strategy: Take advantage of low-Energy attacks, though beware the Energy loss from using Infernape's powerful Inferno attack. More details in the future.
As always, glad to be of assistance! Many people do think to start with a theme deck and build with cards from boosters to improve it. I certainly did when I started. Double-decking was the second step on my way to improving my deck-building skills.
The third, oddly enough, was building 30 card decks, which were built around a particular strategy. From there, I would combine two (ensuring I had no cards that had more than 4 copies) to have a very modular deck-building system, where I could rely on either strategy as need be. While it seemed like a great idea at the time, I later realized that sometimes one strategy might get in the way of another, realizing that many of the double-half decks I used that both focused on the same strategy worked better than those that didn't.
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MegaVelocibot
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I've tried that, with quite a lot of testing. The only times it is successful is if an opponent can't switch out of Poison/Burn, or fails to wake up from Sleep. The first and last of those conditions are achieved by Hypnotoxic Laser, which, even when buying two copies of the deck, does not afford enough uses of that card. There's also the matter of attempting to retreat Amoonguss without Switch (two Energy wasted) or letting it get Knocked Out (opponent takes a Prize, Hex is thus a mutual Prize draw at best). After all, using the included Escape Rope would remove the Special Conditions from the Defending Pokemon, even if you got them to stay on.
That said, I had underestimated Astonish on both the base and evolved forms, and might give it an edit.
Normal guy
Member
Any news on the EX tin upgrades?
MegaVelocibot
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I really need to stop forgetting to post this thing that I wrote up! Thanks for the reminder. This will be also updated for the White/Black Kyurem-EX and Keldeo-EX tins once they are released. These will also be general recommendations as to what decks these Pokemon can comfortably fit into.
Mewtwo-EX
X-Ball brings to Mewtwo-EX the ability to fit into any doubled theme deck with its entirely Colorless Energy attack cost. But should it be? The answer is probably yes. The longer answer is if you can attach enough Energy to Mewtwo quickly enough for the attack to be worthwhile.
Darkrai-EX
Darkrai-EX can be fit comfortably into any deck that: runs or can run Darkness Energy, runs Grass, Fire, Psychic or Darkness Pokémon Pokémon and can take advantage of Blend Energy GRPD, or big Basic Pokémon with Prism Energy whose Retreat Costs merit it. It also works in some decks with high-Retreat Cost Pokémon that has reason not to use Switch or Escape Rope. One that immediately springs to mind would be the PlasmaShadow theme deck, working well with the aforementioned Blend Energy to allow an Amoonguss that achieves a Special Condition with staying power to retreat to a Hex Giratina.
Rayquaza-EX
Rayquaza-EX sits with a few issues needing a deck to work around it. It needs Fire and Lightning Energy in order to use its second attack (and thus do any damage). It also needs at least one Energy attachment per turn in order to continue using its second attack, which will be your one per turn unless you have a card that allows for more Energy to be attached or moved to it. Only the Furious Knights deck has the infrastructure to make that possible, but it lacks any Fire Energy needed for the attack. As of the time of writing this, no theme deck can take great advantage of Rayquaza-EX without another theme deck (or Energy) to power the attack.
Keldeo-EX
Keldeo-EX benefits most in decks that use Water Energy, to strengthen its attack. While Rush In is useful as a limited Switch, the Rush In/Float Stone combo cannot be used, if the latter component is not available. This principle extends similarly to its inclusion into a deck with the tin Darkrai-EX and Darkness Energy.
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Normal guy
Member
IceShock seems good for the Mewtwo EX blastiose can keep the energy coming and you can get rid of a black Kyurem easily
MegaVelocibot
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I was pleasantly surprised with both the Trainers and Pokemon that I had to work with for this double-deck. Were it to include the alternate Eevee card that came in this set, this double-deck would be even higher on my list of recommended double-decks.
Turbo-Turbine (Double Frost Ray)
Pokémon: 22
3 Glaceon PLF 23
1 Vaporeon PLF 20
2 Jolteon PLF 48
4 Eevee PLF 89
4 Pachirisu PLF 37
2 Electrode PLF 33
2 Voltorb PLF 32
2 Rattata PLF 87
2 Raticate PLF 88
Trainers: 24
4 Energy Retrieval BW 92
4 Pokémon Communication BW 99
4 Energy Search BC 128
4 Team Plasma Ball PLF 105
2 Potion BC 132
2 Shadow Triad PLF 102
2 Superior Energy Retrieval PLF 103
2 Team Plasma Grunt PLS 125
Energy: 14
3 Lightning Energy
11 Water Energy
Strategy:
Eevee's evolutions are diverse enough in this double-deck to be modified to suit your tastes. I would start with no fewer that two Glaceon, for the benefit of its Ability in reducing your Retreat Costs, and adjust to suit your needs. To start with, I would include no more than six cards that evolve from Eevee, as there are no Revive to get the Eevee back into play as needed. Pachirisu is excellent for getting whichever basic Energy cards you need, allowing for two types of Energy to be run very easily. Raticate allows for the reuse of components of your Team Plasma-based search Engine. So long as you can keep your hand size low, Electrode provides a valuable service on your Bench, effectively allowing you to use Bicycle (in the form of its Ability) every turn.
My overall concern with this double-deck is the lack of a sufficiently hard-hitting attacker. Without the support of Victini from Noble Victories, an attack such as Vanilluxe's ChillMAX can be a very risky investment. While Cryogonal is very useful to search out Water-type Pokémon, with the reduction in this deck down to Eevee's Evolutions, its services are no longer needed. However, a Vanilluxe-based double-deck could put it to great use. Potion could arguably be left out, if you feel that you require additional space for additional Energy cards.
Further modifications: replace the included Eevee with the other Eevee (PLF 90) that can search out its evolutions to make Eevee a very potent starting Pokémon.
Turbo-Turbine (Double Frost Ray)
Pokémon: 22
3 Glaceon PLF 23
1 Vaporeon PLF 20
2 Jolteon PLF 48
4 Eevee PLF 89
4 Pachirisu PLF 37
2 Electrode PLF 33
2 Voltorb PLF 32
2 Rattata PLF 87
2 Raticate PLF 88
Trainers: 24
4 Energy Retrieval BW 92
4 Pokémon Communication BW 99
4 Energy Search BC 128
4 Team Plasma Ball PLF 105
2 Potion BC 132
2 Shadow Triad PLF 102
2 Superior Energy Retrieval PLF 103
2 Team Plasma Grunt PLS 125
Energy: 14
3 Lightning Energy
11 Water Energy
Strategy:
Eevee's evolutions are diverse enough in this double-deck to be modified to suit your tastes. I would start with no fewer that two Glaceon, for the benefit of its Ability in reducing your Retreat Costs, and adjust to suit your needs. To start with, I would include no more than six cards that evolve from Eevee, as there are no Revive to get the Eevee back into play as needed. Pachirisu is excellent for getting whichever basic Energy cards you need, allowing for two types of Energy to be run very easily. Raticate allows for the reuse of components of your Team Plasma-based search Engine. So long as you can keep your hand size low, Electrode provides a valuable service on your Bench, effectively allowing you to use Bicycle (in the form of its Ability) every turn.
My overall concern with this double-deck is the lack of a sufficiently hard-hitting attacker. Without the support of Victini from Noble Victories, an attack such as Vanilluxe's ChillMAX can be a very risky investment. While Cryogonal is very useful to search out Water-type Pokémon, with the reduction in this deck down to Eevee's Evolutions, its services are no longer needed. However, a Vanilluxe-based double-deck could put it to great use. Potion could arguably be left out, if you feel that you require additional space for additional Energy cards.
Further modifications: replace the included Eevee with the other Eevee (PLF 90) that can search out its evolutions to make Eevee a very potent starting Pokémon.
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girlsplaytoo
New Member
add kyreum for big hitter
Built this double deck a few days ago now working to add in kyreum for a hitter along with changing out the eevees for the evolution type from the psy crusher deck....
Built this double deck a few days ago now working to add in kyreum for a hitter along with changing out the eevees for the evolution type from the psy crusher deck....