Illegal attacks/steps during a turn

Discussion in 'TCG News & Gossip Discussion' started by M_Liesik, Mar 14, 2007.

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  1. M_Liesik

    M_Liesik Master Trainer<br><font color=green><i>Keeper of t

    In regards to the debate spawned in this thread.

    Copied from the POP boards:

    I discussed this issue with both Yasu and Dave, and we feel that we've come to a fair consensus.

    Per the rulebook, the game is split into 4 "steps";

    1) Draw a card.

    2) Do any of the following:
    > Put Basic Pokemon on the Bench (as many as you want).
    > Evolve Pokemon (As many as you want).
    > Attach 1 Energy card to 1 of your Pokemon (only once per turn).
    > Play Trainer cards (As many as you want, bot only one Stadium and one Supporter card per turn).
    > Retreat your Active Pokemon (only once per turn).
    > Use Poke-Powers (as many as you want).

    3) Attack!
    > Check to make sure that you have enough Energy attached to your Active Pokemon to attack.
    > Check Weakness and Resistance of your opponent's Pokemon.
    > Put damage counters on your opponent's Pokemon.
    > Check to see if you Knocked Out your opponent's Pokemon.
    > Take a Prize card (if you Knocked Out your opponent's Pokemon).

    4) Your turn is over now (also known as "between turns").

    If an action is mandatory (i.e. draw a card at the beginning of your turn, take a prize for knocking out a Pokemon, place damage counters for an attack, etc.), and you forget to take that action, you do not need your opponent's permission to do it. However, you should immediately call a judge so that things don't get muddled.

    If an action is optional (playing a Trainer, attaching an Energy, attacking your opponent's Pokemon, etc.), and you forget to take that action, you must ask your opponent for permission to take that action. For example, if you attach a Grass Energy to your Pokemon, and you wanted to attach a Fire Energy, you must ask your opponent's permission to take back the Grass Energy and attach the Fire energy instead. If he or she says no, you're stuck with the Grass Energy.

    While it is mandatory to proceed through both step 2) and step 3), the actions in those steps are optional. You can choose not to attach an Energy card. You can choose not to play a Trainer. You can choose not to attack the defending Pokemon. However, once you have entered one of these steps, you cannot rewind to a previous step without your opponent's permission.

    In other words, once you've entered step 3), you cannot leave it without your opponent's permission. If you declare an "illegal" attack, you may ask your opponent if you can back out of step 3). If he or she says yes, you go back to step 2) and can take any actions that you could have taken during that step. If he or she says no, you may either select an attack that is "legal" or pass.

    Most often a rewound game state is due to mandatory game actions that were not taken (i.e. placing damage counters for an attack or effect).

    Now, lets all play nice. :D
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 15, 2007
  2. Rainbowgym

    Rainbowgym Active Member

    Mike,
    How do people "know" they are in step 3?

    Is it an option to add:
    3). Announce you are going to attack. (so it is clear you are out of step 2 and into step 3).
    That way people have to say what they are doing, and even a penalty can be given for not announcing (sloppy play).
     
  3. PSYCO829

    PSYCO829 New Member

    yo mike?
    what if i just wave my hand at my opponents pokemon and say "ko"
    is that my attack for the turn?
     
  4. Rainbowgym

    Rainbowgym Active Member

    Don't know how to explain what I am trying to say, but this is my best try.

    3) Announce you are going to attack
    > Check to make sure that you have enough Energy attached to your Active Pokemon and tell your opponent which attack you are going to use.
    > etc.
    > etc.
     
  5. M_Liesik

    M_Liesik Master Trainer<br><font color=green><i>Keeper of t

    I'd like to see that, but I don't write the rules. :wink:

    I'll talk to R&D about it, but they're pretty hesitant to add too much more complexity to the rulebook, as the theme deck rulebooks are targetted at newer players.

    Let's not rules lawyer this too much, okay?

    It should be pretty obvious when your opponent is announcing an attack, even if they don't say "I attack your Pikachu with my Steelix ex's Mudslide attack for 100 damage and a Knock Out."
     
  6. Articjedi

    Articjedi Active Member

    so if I declare the wrong attack with a mew ex in play but still have the energy to pick a different one, I can do that different one, right?
     
  7. M_Liesik

    M_Liesik Master Trainer<br><font color=green><i>Keeper of t

    If you declare an attack that you don't meet the requirements for.

    If you announce an attack that requires Fighting Energy, but you don't have any Fighting Energy attached, you can pick another attack that you do have the Energy for. If do have the Energy to do that attack, but you meant to do another attack, you need to ask your opponent's permission to do that other attack. If he or she says no, you're stuck with the original attack.
     
  8. Flaming_Spinach

    Flaming_Spinach Feature Editor

    So basically, If I chose an attack I can not use, but there is another I can use, I am allowed to re-select.

    correct?



    eDIT: I'm too slow posting these things.
     
  9. Rainbowgym

    Rainbowgym Active Member

    Making things more clear by adding a few simple words is not adding complexity but clearity.
    Which is i.m.o. even the most important way to learn new players to play correctly.

    What is more clear for a new player?

    A) Attack
    or
    A) Announce you are attacking and say the attackname (or something simular).

    For experienced players it will have a bigger load, because they are supposed to understand they are in step 3 now.
    For experienced players it's "the point of no return".

    just my opinion.

    I like the way it's split up btw.
     
  10. Lawman

    Lawman Active Member

    Thx Mike for giving us this roadmap to a sticky wicket!

    Keith
     
  11. PokéMart

    PokéMart New Member

    But from now on that's the only way I'm going to announce my attacks, just to be safe ;-)
     
  12. Physics Squirrel

    Physics Squirrel Active Member

    Wow. I've always played as if the attack was part of the turn stage, but it ended your turn, so if you announced an illegal attack, you could go back to doing your turn. I'll have to be careful now.. Thanks for clearing this up.
     
  13. ZAKtheGeek

    ZAKtheGeek New Member

    This is very good to know.

    I'm wondering why the opposing player has the power to allow a return to a previous stage. I mean, technically, both players can just agree not to inform a judge, so as far as anyone knows there never was any reversal, but I don't see how that could be an official option...
     
  14. ninetales1234

    ninetales1234 <a href="http://pokegym.net/gallery/browseimages.p

    oh noooo! some judging grey area is missing!:tongue:
    OK, as long they don't tell us when a card is considered "played", we should be fine.:lol:

    Very interesting. Very clear and easy to understand. I do have a question: will you be updating the 2006-2007 Tournament Rules with this, or is your post just (possibly very good) advice?
     
  15. evil psyduck

    evil psyduck Moderator Trader Feedback Mod

    Say if they do an illegal attack and you say no to them going back to step 2. Can you call a judge over so they can keep a record of the people that do this and if they have a habit of doing it can cautions, warnings, or any penaltys be given to them? I am just asking because we have someone at or league that is constantly do it. They do it at leagues and tourney's.
     
  16. Big Daddy Snorlax

    Big Daddy Snorlax Administrator

    Spirit of the Game :thumb:

    BDS
     
  17. SlimeyGrimey

    SlimeyGrimey New Member

    I like it. :thumb:
     
  18. Robbgobb

    Robbgobb New Member

    I am glad to see this happen. I really like how the other player has the option of allowing things. I normally allow someone to fix a mistake. Does not mean I will at all times. I do not often ask an opponent to take something back and accept any time they have to point out I made a mistake because I got in a hurry. Now I know that until I announce an attack that I can do other things but if need to go back can ask if I can do something real quick.
     
  19. Pidgeotto Trainer

    Pidgeotto Trainer New Member

    A common thing I hear is "do 40." Then some people after seeing that there is resistance or some other effect and that they cannot "do 40", argue that they have not announced an action they can legally do, even though it is pretty obvious they meant to do the attack that normally does 40 damage, and not the one that normally does 60 damage (for example). What should the call be for this? Not announcing the actual attack name is very common.
     
  20. ninetales1234

    ninetales1234 <a href="http://pokegym.net/gallery/browseimages.p

    Make them announce the attack before they put damage counters or any counters on your Pokemon.
     
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