Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Is there a pokemon banlist?

yankeezone13 said:
Thats because that's what everyone chose to run. People chose to run 0 of the *'s and Shinings, 1 of the Luxury Ball's and they could run as many copies of a tech as they want.
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How many people complained when Slowking or even Sneasel were banned? Even if they did, it was to save the health of the game.
 
If there were cards that were needed to be banned in the TCG they probably would be, like Slowking and Sneasel when they were banned from modified.
 
vaporeon said:
How many people complained when Slowking or even Sneasel were banned? Even if they did, it was to save the health of the game.
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Likewise, almost no-one complained when they banned Sableye and the SP engine via rotation. When banning a card saves the health of the game, people generally respond positively. However, banning Vileplume or Junk Arm isn't exactly healthy for the game (unless someone can use concrete examples to prove otherwise).

That being said, I'm not entirely against a palace point system in the future.
 
psychup2034 said:
Likewise, almost no-one complained when they banned Sableye and the SP engine via rotation. When banning a card saves the health of the game, people generally respond positively. However, banning Vileplume or Junk Arm isn't exactly healthy for the game (unless someone can use concrete examples to prove otherwise).

That being said, I'm not entirely against a palace point system in the future.
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Cards are banned for being too good at what they do. Vileplume and junk arm are too good at what they do and should be banned and restricted.

Vileplume sits on the bench and block all items from being played. The vileplume player does not care about this. Its the only reason The Truth came second at worlds. There are no real ways to deal with it. Most decks can't deal with it. In the case of junk arm, the card is just too good based on the options it can grab. With ND coming, the card becomes a pain to deal with. It can grab crushing hammers, lost removers, catchers, switch, max potion, etc.

It would be fine if it stopped at say switch but it does not. It grabs a lot of disruptive cards. Deck like durant will be half as good. With junk arm banned or even at 1 per deck, people don't have the luxury of discarding cards they don't need now for something they can get a kill with. I think junk arm is fine at 1 per deck.

Games ban to restore health to the game. Naruto does it, yugioh does it and magic does it. Even the video game bans for the reasons I posted above. Its time pokemon did this for the TCG.
 
vaporeon said:
Cards are banned for being too good at what they do. Vileplume and junk arm are too good at what they do and should be banned and restricted.
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Whether or not a card is 'too good at what they do' is a matter of opinion. Yours may differ from that of TPCI and other players.

Vileplume sits on the bench and block all items from being played. The vileplume player does not care about this.
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The Vileplume player has to take account of the fact they they will not be able to use Trainers. No Catcher, Switch, Candy etc for them. They also have to run very weak Basics and Bench multiples of them at the start of the game. Plenty of downsides to Vileplume.

Its the only reason The Truth came second at worlds. There are no real ways to deal with it.
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Players have developed ways to deal with it since. At the time, it was a unique puzzle. Also remember that the deck only made cut because of a scoop in Swiss. Hardly evidence of it being unstoppable

In the case of junk arm, the card is just too good based on the options it can grab. With ND coming, the card becomes a pain to deal with. It can grab crushing hammers, lost removers, catchers, switch, max potion, etc.
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Wait . . . I thought we had that unstoppable Vileplume to deal with Junk Arm . . .

It would be fine if it stopped at say switch but it does not. It grabs a lot of disruptive cards. Deck like durant will be half as good. With junk arm banned or even at 1 per deck, people don't have the luxury of discarding cards they don't need now for something they can get a kill with. I think junk arm is fine at 1 per deck.
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What exactly is wrong with discard/recovery as a strategy?

Games ban to restore health to the game. Naruto does it, yugioh does it and magic does it. Even the video game bans for the reasons I posted above. Its time pokemon did this for the TCG.
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Just because other games have bans, it doesn't follow that they are needed in the Pokemon TCG. There's no logic to that whatsoever.
 
I have played other card games, but I don't see why that's relevant.

Each game makes its own decisions on whether a ban is needed. They don't sit there saying 'everyone else does it so we need to do it too!'. Pokemon obviously feel that they do not need a banlist and quite honestly I've never seen much credible support for one either. The only exception to that (in the Nintendo era) was the problem caused by the BW rules and the old cards . . . and they fixed it with the early rotation.
 
That action was justified. We would have had 2 sets blocks not compatible with BW on rules. Card games make the choice to ban cards to keep the game healthy. When a card performs better then expected, the actions are taken against it.

Reshiram and Zekrom are not good for the game but Pokemon EX are. Instead of banning Reshi and Zekrom to make the EX pokemon more playable, they gave then unreal HP. See the problem in that. Because they choose not to ban Reshi and Zekrom, the rest of the BW block is going to suffer due to a power creep they started. Now, I like the BW cards but the dragons ruined the format.

Vileplume in BW on has NO checks. Cards will no longer be printed to deal with Poke Powers and Poke Bodies. Only Abilities. Vileplume and Junk Arm does not belong in the BW Block. You know they killed Umbreon completely but not putting an errata on it saying 'Poke Powers, Poke Bodies and Abilities' but if they choose to rotate to CL-On format, we have a useless card yet they choose to keep junk Arm. There is a huge difference in a trainer and item but they made Junk Arm work over Umbreon and choose to keep Vileplume.

I only asked you if you played other TCG's because I wanted to know where you stood on cards being banned to preserve the health of the game.
 
I think that if a card truly did ruin the health of the game like Neo Sneasel, Slowking, or the old sets + BW rules, then ban/rotation would be justified.

Those are incredibly exceptional cases though. Since I've been playing I've seen threads calling for the banning of everything from Absol SW to Zekrom (see what I did there?), and I didn't think any of them ruined the health of the game.
 
If I recall correctly, Neo Sneasel was banned because it's damage output was far greater then the HP limit of its time. I believe it was like 60 to 80 on stage 1 Pokemon. Also due to darkness energy being the special dark so you were alway doing + 20 damage (No weakness)and Slowkind due to a translation error.

Sneasel was reptinted in HGSS because it's not a broken as it was. It's still powerful but nothing is too scared of it now. The reason I said Ban the dragons because BW on were really good sets. Just think of them without Reshiram, Zekrom or even Kyurem. If they made outrage cost of of their type and a random. it would be good. If both blue flare and Bolt Strike did 80, maybe 90 damage, that would also be fine. Drop the HP from 130 to something between 100 and 120. Even better right?

The problem with the format is we have basic Pokemon with 130 HP and Eviolite that can do 120+ damage, can take a beating and outrage back. Why use Ho-Oh/Legend over Reshiram? There's not point. What about Promo Pika/BW Pika over Zekrom. Who would when you can Bolt Strike?

The problem is overshadowing. Even with the new Pokemon EX. I expected them to have more HP. Maybe something at 150 as the max but they can't because they don't want to make pokemon that can get blue flare or bolt strike for 2 prizes. The trade off won't be fair. The dragons are the problem with the format right now on top of other issues.
 
I'm not going to bother arguing about power creep again, but to rehash some quick thoughts. The power creep was probably intended and Reshiram and Zekrom are not the cause of the problems with the game state.

vaporeon said:
Vileplume in BW on has NO checks. Cards will no longer be printed to deal with Poke Powers and Poke Bodies. Only Abilities. Vileplume and Junk Arm does not belong in the BW Block. You know they killed Umbreon completely but not putting an errata on it saying 'Poke Powers, Poke Bodies and Abilities' but if they choose to rotate to CL-On format, we have a useless card yet they choose to keep junk Arm. There is a huge difference in a trainer and item but they made Junk Arm work over Umbreon and choose to keep Vileplume.
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Vileplume has no checks? Really? Snip cards disagree. We're getting some decent snipe this coming set, and incredible snipe with the set following. Even then Vileplume in of itself is a double edged sword as it stops its own player from playing trainers. If Vileplume was as good as you say it would top in most if not all tournaments, but it hasn't. Further as far as Junk Arm goes, it isn't half as abusive as it was last year.
 
TheRolesWePlay said:
I'm not going to bother arguing about power creep again, but to rehash some quick thoughts. The power creep was probably intended and Reshiram and Zekrom are not the cause of the problems with the game state.



Vileplume has no checks? Really? Snip cards disagree. We're getting some decent snipe this coming set, and incredible snipe with the set following. Even then Vileplume in of itself is a double edged sword as it stops its own player from playing trainers. If Vileplume was as good as you say it would top in most if not all tournaments, but it hasn't. Further as far as Junk Arm goes, it isn't half as abusive as it was last year.
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The Vileplume Trainer does not care about playing Items. It's the reason they are playing Vileplume. To talk about snipe. What good reliable snipe do we have or are we getting. The best snipe I can see as of now is 100 from SEL and Raikou EX. As of now, what we have is not enough. We need something to shutdown vileplume. Pokemon can't use poke bodies, etc.
 
vaporeon said:
The Vileplume Trainer does not care about playing Items. It's the reason they are playing Vileplume. To talk about snipe. What good reliable snipe do we have or are we getting. The best snipe I can see as of now is 100 from SEL and Raikou EX. As of now, what we have is not enough. We need something to shutdown vileplume. Pokemon can't use poke bodies, etc.
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Though rather unknown the Zebstrika and Zapdos next set do some pretty decent snipe (enough to OHKO the Solosis and Oddish no problem), the former even OHKO the stage 1s. Additionally while Vileplume doesn't need to rely on Items, a well built deck should still be able to play around it enough. Lastly I'd like to remind you that Vileplume is a Stage 2 and, because of its body needs to limit its items, making it a little difficult to get it out at times, which is enough of a drawback IMO.
 
TheRolesWePlay said:
Though rather unknown the Zebstrika and Zapdos next set do some pretty decent snipe (enough to OHKO the Solosis and Oddish no problem), the former even OHKO the stage 1s. Additionally while Vileplume doesn't need to rely on Items, a well built deck should still be able to play around it enough. Lastly I'd like to remind you that Vileplume is a Stage 2 and, because of its body needs to limit its items, making it a little difficult to get it out at times, which is enough of a drawback IMO.
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While that is true but once the vileplume gets setup, there is not much you can do about, having a well built deck or not. The simple fact is that Vileplume is in a block that won't ever target it. Sure it being a stage 2 pokemon hurts now but it does not care about that. once it's it, you don;t have to worry about catcher and such. You opponent can't really fight back once you stop half their deck. Thats really broken considering if a card game has an effect like that, you can normally stop it or at least get the chance to respond to it.
 
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