DonphanAtoZ
New Member
People who whine about donks are not as good as they think they are.
Issues Facing the TCG
- Thread starter Ness
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Porii Sames
Active Member
People who think offering up criticism and constructive opinions to help in the overall growth of the game is whining, clearly isnt as smart as they think they are.....
Jimmy
butlerforhire
New Member
lol...
A lot of world-class players in this thread have expressed a dislike of donks, including the OP, someone who has won World twice. Expressing dislike is not the same as whining, and even if it was, your claim is ridiculous and unfounded.
I'm guessing you think you're worth a million and love the donk.
Also, why is everyone in this thread arguing with a stubborn, self-contradicting senior who runs Beedrill G?
DonphanAtoZ
New Member
I didn't say expressing dislike. I said whining. I never said specifically who I thought was whining. Calm down. The OP was not whining. A certain person in this thread is.
---------- Post added 12/12/2010 at 09:22 PM ----------
People who think offering up criticism and constructive opinions to help in the overall growth of the game is whining, clearly isnt as smart as they think they are.....
Jimmy
See above...............
Kayle
Active Member
lol yeah, the OP is only the best player in the world...
Porii, once again I think you skimmed some portion of my post in the past. Let me retrieve it.
This is an ability unique only to "donk" decks. The overpowering and outspeeding you talk about is still problematic: it prevents the games from being full, strategic, tactical... or enjoyable. It's just all about who gets the cards quickly enough, all about luck, except your deck is designed to come out on top of that.
I've only ever played one tournament, a CC, purely for fun. It was utterly ruined when I came up against Shuppet in top 4. I've experienced this before.
Qwachansey
Active Member
I mean, it's obviously my fault for literally not getting a chance to do anything against Sableye or going 1st without a deck of 20 Basics and 4 Calls. What was I thinking?
Kayle
Active Member
Sorry, missed this; you talking about me?
If so, I'm curious as to how I came across as whining, sincerely. Simply so I can avoid that in the future.
I'm aggravated by my inability to get my point of view across to Porii, and I am concerned about the effect donks have on this game. I like donk decks on the face of it - they're fun to build and, to some extent, play - but I do feel that their existence is unhealthy.
People who think offering up criticism and constructive opinions to help in the overall growth of the game is whining, clearly isnt as smart as they think they are.....
Jimmy
Please come back to this game...
@Slow Deck
Agreed...
In the end its pretty simple, the faster a game gets the more luck dependent it gets because opening hands matter more and more. When I started pokemon it was a game that said "you have 60 cards, make them ost out of them" in contrast to ygo which I was a "pg" on and which I left because I hated "just make the best out of what you get, although it might not be enough, no matter what you do".
And this is what weve reached in pkmn as well. Its kinda like solitaire, you can play all you want, if lucks not on your side you wont win. And half of the games are lost before they even start.
When I used to play back then I wondered if I coudl outplay my opponent, when I play right now I wonder if Ill have the chance to play at all/do anything. Had this happen last week at league, I went second, had tomb/mesprit/magneton but nothing else because I dont have the hand of god. I ate the t2 rush despite that and thats it. Awesome game, great skills shown, very interesting...
And before anyone whos especially clever points this out, yeah, you can always have dead hands but you can go somewhere with little resources and proper managment if you dont get bright looked/dragon rushed/sprayed t2-4 or loose 3 pokemon til you finally have something up.
Im still really worried about lost world but otherwise I expect that the next season might be the return of the game I loved so much I started playing it despite ygo being bigger and me being bigger at it.
And even if HGSS on is simply smashing mons into another, that might at least be somewhat fun..
Swordfish1989
New Member
^To respond to a previous person on this thread, how is SP not fun? I've played a lot of different decks in the last 6 or so months and I finally decided to try an SP deck and I had a blast with it. I feel like there's so much strategy in the deck because of all the choices at any given time to get what you need, and, I guess to me that's fun.
Kayle
Active Member
I am starting to like SP - it took some time to grow on me. But it DOES hamper the fun of other decks quite a bit, because... well, its job is to be fast and aggravating.
DonphanAtoZ
New Member
IMO, donk decks are not a problem. Currently LC and Dos have the most tops, neither of them are designed to donk. (Although they can)
Porii Sames
Active Member
What effects?
Uxiedonk won 2 Cities in Masters. Didn't Luxchomp win like 14? And how many did Gyarados win? Vilegar?
That's not a huge ffect on the metagame, imo. And the donk decks don't normally donk.
---------- Post added 12/12/2010 at 09:42 PM ----------
SP is a blast. I luv SP do much.
It actually is a very difficult deck to precise and play. I prefer standard Sablock or Beedrill G myself.
I think it's become obvious that the people(who admittedly are a minority, probably) don't dislike donks aren't going to be changing their minds by this constant back and forth. The thread's become an "I like donks/I hate donks" thread, and I'm not seeing much suggestions for the improvement of the game anymore, which was the initial purpose of the thread.
Porii Sames
Active Member
Kayle
Active Member
I didn't say metagame. I said game.
I have been to three tournaments so far this year despite my ABILITY to go to about fifteen, sixteen. I don't want to play. I don't want my games to get ruined by people playing shenanigan decks that don't actually really have a strong competitive base, but are good enough to win without being any fun at all - I classify Mewperior as one of these, but that's a personal thing.
---------- Post added 12/12/2010 at 07:52 PM ----------
Porii - my point is that the ability to disrupt from the first turn on shouldn't EXIST. You need some time to set up or else the game isn't any fun. You rely on your starting hand, and you sit down to a game without any guarantee you'll ever have a chance to win. Who wants to play a game like that??? Who wants to travel miles and pay hard cash for a game like that?
Porii Sames
Active Member
Disruption is what makes Sablock a good deck.
Disruption is what makes Luxchomp a good deck.
Disruption is what makes the Uxiedonk vs Luxchom a good matchup.
Disruption 1st turn is not unfair. It is KO'ing a Pokemon on the 1st turn. You should be happy! You DIDN'T get donked!
If you don't get donked by Beedrill G; then you're in for a wild ride if you don't have a trainer lock of some sort or reliable search cards.
I will agree that donk/disruption is a bit mean in a way. But I do it because I want to win that way.
Disruption is what makes Luxchomp a good deck.
Disruption is what makes the Uxiedonk vs Luxchom a good matchup.
Disruption 1st turn is not unfair. It is KO'ing a Pokemon on the 1st turn. You should be happy! You DIDN'T get donked!
If you don't get donked by Beedrill G; then you're in for a wild ride if you don't have a trainer lock of some sort or reliable search cards.
I will agree that donk/disruption is a bit mean in a way. But I do it because I want to win that way.
Kayle
Active Member
no no no, Sablelock also suffers this same problem. If they impersonate Judge T1, my entire game revolves around the 4 cards I draw and what I already have in play. The only good news is, that goes for them too.
Dirsuption on the first turn is completely unfair because it denies me the chance to play the game.
Disruption with Luxchomp's speed is also unfair, but not nearly as much. You can tell because people complain! But it's navigable: play a fast deck, like Luxchomp itself, or play something that is able to survive that disruption, which many decks can under the right circumstances: see Jumpluff pre-rotation.
You want to win by not preventing your opponent from having a chance to actually play the game, okay.
Porii Sames
Active Member
That's how I play. That's how I win. It's a bit unfair. There are ways to prevent it. That's all I want to say.
Jimmy's not the only TO to run smooth tournaments. There are a few who have been doing it for a long time.
But when you get to the really big tournaments, ( States, Reg.) where 8 or 9 rds of swiss ( all with a +3 ) then a top 16, 1 1/2 hour top cut, at some point you gotta give food breaks. You're gonna have more delays, no matter how hard you try not to.
Those tournaments you have to look to because they will be your benchmarks. You have to have the same rules in place for all premier events.
Though I wouldn't mind a time limit on door prizes...
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