HGSS-on Magneboar - In need of advice.

[wyoungb]

So I've recently put together a Magneboar build and it's nothing special but I find myself with no real surprise and every deck I've played has some fairly red face paint but useful element to it. I'm looking for not only help streamlining this deck but also some advice on what tech would be helpful or if anyone can help me think of a "surprise" element. Before you start critiquing please read everything in my strategy section. Also, this is not net decked so I have no idea what other lists look like, I just liked the concept...

Pokemon: 22
4-2-4 Magnezone Prime
2-1-2 Emboar
1-1 RDL
3 Cleffa HGSS
2 Promo Shuckle

T/S/S: 17
4 Rare Candy
4 Pokemon Communication
4 Pokemon Collector
3 Judge
2 PETM

Energy: 21
15 Fire
5 Lightning

Now that I look at my list, it may be a little energy heavy but the reason is when I had only 18 energy in the deck I played a zekrom build and ran out of energy and even though I had a 4 prize lead, I scooped because I only had 2 energy left in the deck and on the field. Now if you can't tell I play for consistency, I will not drop my magnezone line even though it has been recommended to me. I like no having to play recovery cards. The cards I'm iffy on keeping are promo shuckle and all 4 collector as well as RDL. Although I find shuckle helpful while setting up, once I have magnezone prime set up, it becomes redundant. I'd like to get some feedback on why or why not keep the cards. Also, I have yet to use RDL. I find I end up putting almost all of energy of the field before I get RDL on the bench. It's quite possible I am using it incorrectly but I'm weary of getting used to use it since catcher is coming out soon and RDL is so easy to tech against (colorless weakness). Also, I will need to make room for switches for the same problem since emboar and magnezone have such massive retreat costs. I also, love judge in combination with an eeeek or magnetic draw afterwards so I won't be dropping those either!

Just in case people don't know the basic concept of the deck. I use cleffa to start and use eeeek until i am sufficiently set up (or cleffa dies). Then use magnezone prime to get OHKO's viz "Lost Burn" and keep drawing using "Magnetic Draw". Also, emboar's ability allows me to attach as many fire energy as I'd like to fuel "lost burn". Shuckle is there to attach energy to and draw extra cards. RDL is used to take the final two prizes (theoretically).

PLEASE leave comments with more than just addition and subtraction of cards. I like the to think about the reasoning much much more than just exchanging cards. Please discuss any changes you feel should be made and WHY. Thanks!

 

[thediceboss]

you might want to try putting interviewers questions in since you have so much energy. then you can just put the energy on your bench pokemon and burn them from there while your magnezone is active

---------- Post added 06/19/2011 at 10:52 PM ----------

also you might trade some of your fire energy out for lightning energy just so your not in a situation where you cant use magnezones lost burn

 

[sToRm07]

Why not 3-1-3 Magnezone? It seems to be the play for all the best builds I've seen so far...

 

[wyoungb]

you might want to try putting interviewers questions in since you have so much energy. then you can just put the energy on your bench pokemon and burn them from there while your magnezone is active

---------- Post added 06/19/2011 at 10:52 PM ----------

also you might trade some of your fire energy out for lightning energy just so your not in a situation where you cant use magnezones lost burn

I haven't had any energy issues with the current amount. I never am in need of extra lightning nor have a problem getting enough altogether so I don't think interveiwers in needed.

Why not 3-1-3 Magnezone? It seems to be the play for all the best builds I've seen so far...

I've always built my deck based on consistency and because I am not running any recovery, I don't want to risk having one or more magnezone lines prized as I tend to use three every game. Without azelf I've buffed my pokemon lines. What makes 3-1-3 the best build in your opinion?

 

[The Purple Pro]

Why not 3-1-3 Magnezone? It seems to be the play for all the best builds I've seen so far...

Exactly. That's the way to go. 4-2-4 is just bad. You arn't going to be attacking with Magnezone so much and you won't be drawing anything off Magnetic Draw because you would have used it already 2+ times...

 

[Shishio]

How is a 3-1-3 line good? its basically saying "Hey if I play trainer lock there is a good chance of not getting magnezone at all." Nothing wrong with a 4-2-4, its definitely better than a 3-1-3

 

[The Purple Pro]

How is a 3-1-3 line good? its basically saying "Hey if I play trainer lock there is a good chance of not getting magnezone at all." Nothing wrong with a 4-2-4, its definitely better than a 3-1-3

Ummm I know a few trainer lock decks will be played, but Vileploom isn't exactly up-to-par anymore due to the loss of Spiritomb. You may see a few Mismagius/Vileplooms, but I kinda doubt they will be any good. Mismagius gets OHKOed by most attacks in the format and that's that. Also Pokemon Reversal can move up a Gloom/Oddish before it evolves...

 

[JPN Gallade]

Based off your style, here's what I would do to improve the deck.

-1 Magnezone Prime
-1 Magneton
-1 Magnemite
-2 PETM

+3 Junk Arm
+2 Professor Juniper/Sage's Training
+1 Judge
+1 Flower Shop Lady

Allow me to explain. Yeah, 3-1-3 is the ideal Magnezone line, and I really don't think you need two PETM either. 4 Communication, 4 Collector, and quite some nice drawpower is enough if you ask me. 3 Junk Arm is very helpful in that it helps you reuse trainer, and discarding cards means more to draw from Magnezone's power. An added Judge is in there because it is quite good to run in this deck. 4 Judge means that you can utilize Magnezone's power more in drawing more cars, as well as being able to disrupt your opponent at the same time. 2 Juniper/Sage's Training is for more consistency, and it is preferential. If you prefer getting totally new hands, use Juniper. If you prefer keeping cards in your hand and simply want to just add some cards to it, use Sage's Training.

Flower Shop Lady is a card I would actually run at least one of in any Magneboar deck because one observation I noticed is that the deck is commonly known for decking/nearly decking itself out towards the end of the game. Flower Shop Lady helps add some cards back into the deck late game so that you can avoid that decking out possibility at the end.

By the way, just a little notice, you actually run 20 energy from what I'm seeing, not 21. But don't worry, my suggestions helped add one card to make it 60.:thumb:

 

[wyoungb]

Exactly. That's the way to go. 4-2-4 is just bad. You arn't going to be attacking with Magnezone so much and you won't be drawing anything off Magnetic Draw because you would have used it already 2+ times...

I have no idea what you mean by I won't be attacking with magnezone so much... he IS the attacker. The extra magnetic draw is bonus... I want to guarantee that I'll have at least three magnezone prime in play during a game which is why i run a heavy line.

How is a 3-1-3 line good? its basically saying "Hey if I play trainer lock there is a good chance of not getting magnezone at all." Nothing wrong with a 4-2-4, its definitely better than a 3-1-3

I think trainer lock will be played more when Beartic is released. I know it's awhile away but I can't go to nationals so I am planning on playing next fall.

Ummm I know a few trainer lock decks will be played, but Vileploom isn't exactly up-to-par anymore due to the loss of Spiritomb. You may see a few Mismagius/Vileplooms, but I kinda doubt they will be any good. Mismagius gets OHKOed by most attacks in the format and that's that. Also Pokemon Reversal can move up a Gloom/Oddish before it evolves...

Again I think Beartic will bring back trainer lock.

Based off your style, here's what I would do to improve the deck.

-1 Magnezone Prime
-1 Magneton
-1 Magnemite
-2 PETM

+3 Junk Arm
+2 Professor Juniper/Sage's Training
+1 Judge
+1 Flower Shop Lady

Allow me to explain. Yeah, 3-1-3 is the ideal Magnezone line, and I really don't think you need two PETM either. 4 Communication, 4 Collector, and quite some nice drawpower is enough if you ask me. 3 Junk Arm is very helpful in that it helps you reuse trainer, and discarding cards means more to draw from Magnezone's power. An added Judge is in there because it is quite good to run in this deck. 4 Judge means that you can utilize Magnezone's power more in drawing more cars, as well as being able to disrupt your opponent at the same time. 2 Juniper/Sage's Training is for more consistency, and it is preferential. If you prefer getting totally new hands, use Juniper. If you prefer keeping cards in your hand and simply want to just add some cards to it, use Sage's Training.

Flower Shop Lady is a card I would actually run at least one of in any Magneboar deck because one observation I noticed is that the deck is commonly known for decking/nearly decking itself out towards the end of the game. Flower Shop Lady helps add some cards back into the deck late game so that you can avoid that decking out possibility at the end.

By the way, just a little notice, you actually run 20 energy from what I'm seeing, not 21. But don't worry, my suggestions helped add one card to make it 60.:thumb:

I love the addition of junk arm and I have been trying to find room for them. Also I do want a forth judge because it is so good in this deck. But you didn't exactly say WHY I should take out the 1-1-1 Magnezone. I just can't see the deck winning if a magnemite or magnezone gets prized with only three in the deck and no azelf. I'll edit after I post this but the energy was a typo. I actually do have another electric energy as I know I put six in not five. Lastly, I found draw supporters a little unhelpful as my starter has draw as well as magnetic draw. I've found using my judge for early disruption and the attacks/ powers to draw have been quite sufficient. Especially since promo shuckle is still in the list, draw has not been an issue.

I don't know if its just me but I have found juniper to be incredibly unhelpful. I don't generally find myself with a hand in the type of decks i build where i am willing to discard everything. I am very uncomfortable with it thus far. As for sage's is MORE draw really necessary? I mean it seems that's all the deck already revolves around.

I did have a copy of flower shop lady in the deck before posting but had yet to use it in about 10 games. I'm not saying that's all I should go off of but I will reconsider the addition as the metagame begins to form and I can thoroughly test.

All in all I really appreciate this type of response so thanks!

 

[The Purple Pro]

When I said it isn't the main attacker I meant it like you won't be attacking with it all game. You will Lost Zone all your Energies and lose.
Posted with Mobile style...

 

[Nintendan]

Guys wyoungb can use what line he/she feels best with.

Anyway, I would probably take out the Promo Shuckles. All they do is mess your draw engine up. You use Emobar to attach them Magnetic draw for more. Shuckle is a bit opposite. He draws with Emobar but contradicts Magnetic Draw because you won't get many to draw with it. I'm seeing a lack of Reversal (kinda) and Junk Arm. You should really run some Junk Arm in this. Helps a lot. Being able to set up faster (get comms) and get rid of stuff in your hand for more Magnetic Draws is a really great way to get through your deck.

I would probably remove those Shuckle for 2 Junk Arm.

Edit: Also quick word about Juniper. I wouldn't run it. My little bro doesn't and the decks works fine. You draw 7 with Juniper which stops you from MDing.

 

[JPN Gallade]

I love the addition of junk arm and I have been trying to find room for them. Also I do want a forth judge because it is so good in this deck. But you didn't exactly say WHY I should take out the 1-1-1 Magnezone. I just can't see the deck winning if a magnemite or magnezone gets prized with only three in the deck and no azelf. I'll edit after I post this but the energy was a typo. I actually do have another electric energy as I know I put six in not five. Lastly, I found draw supporters a little unhelpful as my starter has draw as well as magnetic draw. I've found using my judge for early disruption and the attacks/ powers to draw have been quite sufficient. Especially since promo shuckle is still in the list, draw has not been an issue.

I don't know if its just me but I have found juniper to be incredibly unhelpful. I don't generally find myself with a hand in the type of decks i build where i am willing to discard everything. I am very uncomfortable with it thus far. As for sage's is MORE draw really necessary? I mean it seems that's all the deck already revolves around.

I did have a copy of flower shop lady in the deck before posting but had yet to use it in about 10 games. I'm not saying that's all I should go off of but I will reconsider the addition as the metagame begins to form and I can thoroughly test.

All in all I really appreciate this type of response so thanks!

Glad to see you'll consider these changes.:smile:

As for the 3-1-3 Magnezone line, it is my error for not going more in depth to it. Basically, if you max out your Rare Candies and run at least 3 Junk Arm (as well as having some nice drawing consistency), you should be able to most commonly play a Rare Candy to evolve a Pokemon into its stage 2 line, so that means you don't really have to worry about Magneton if it was prize, because if you are able to get a Rare Candy (which shouldn't be hard since the deck runs 4), you can simply evolve straight away from Magnemite to Magnezone. This is also a similar thing with Tepig to Emboar as well.

 

[wyoungb]

When I said it isn't the main attacker I meant it like you won't be attacking with it all game. You will Lost Zone all your Energies and lose.
Posted with Mobile style...

21 energy.... if all six pokemon have 150 hp or less itll take 18 energy to win the game. with 21 i have breathing room in case i need to retreat a starter or something gets knocked out with an energy. I'm not sure understand the point of the deck... besides a 1-1 RDL that may or may not ever hit the field (it has yet to be used) magnezone is the only attacker.... your arguement makes no sense at all

Guys wyoungb can use what line he/she feels best with.

Anyway, I would probably take out the Promo Shuckles. All they do is mess your draw engine up. You use Emobar to attach them Magnetic draw for more. Shuckle is a bit opposite. He draws with Emobar but contradicts Magnetic Draw because you won't get many to draw with it. I'm seeing a lack of Reversal (kinda) and Junk Arm. You should really run some Junk Arm in this. Helps a lot. Being able to set up faster (get comms) and get rid of stuff in your hand for more Magnetic Draws is a really great way to get through your deck.

I would probably remove those Shuckle for 2 Junk Arm.

Edit: Also quick word about Juniper. I wouldn't run it. My little bro doesn't and the decks works fine. You draw 7 with Juniper which stops you from MDing.

i like the idea of adding junk arm instead of shuckle, although i have had luck with shuckle early game i don't think its consistent enough to be warranted.

Glad to see you'll consider these changes.:smile:

As for the 3-1-3 Magnezone line, it is my error for not going more in depth to it. Basically, if you max out your Rare Candies and run at least 3 Junk Arm (as well as having some nice drawing consistency), you should be able to most commonly play a Rare Candy to evolve a Pokemon into its stage 2 line, so that means you don't really have to worry about Magneton if it was prize, because if you are able to get a Rare Candy (which shouldn't be hard since the deck runs 4), you can simply evolve straight away from Magnemite to Magnezone. This is also a similar thing with Tepig to Emboar as well.

I'm not worried about magneton or pignite being prized... i am worried about magnezone or magnemite being prized... if i run a 3-1-3 line and one or the other is prized i could be limited to only 2 magnezone for the entire game. the reason i fear this scenario is i played gyarados for about three years... having magikarps prized happened SO often. That deck truly made me realize the imprtance of prizes and with no azelf i don't see a positive side of risking a 3-1-3 line when its possible your prizes alone could cause you to lose the game entirely.

 

[Nintendan]

Hmm... If you're worried about being limited to 2 Magnezone each game, maybe you could run a 3-1-3 line and use up the other space for another attacker - Reshiram? The other cards taken out can be to support Reshiram such as Energy Retrieval and other stuff or maybe just to add to overall consistency.
Just a thought...

 

[SanguineYeti]

Let me preface this fix by saying that I really like your approach to this deck. As seems to be the case with you, playtesting with 3-1-3 magnezone lines has just proven to be too thin for my taste. While most of the top players agree that 3-1-3 is the best option, 4-2-4 is a matter of personal comfort, taste, and most importantly; playstyle. 4-2-4 works in this build because of your high energy count. also, this decks Thrives mid-late game, and getting a magnezone out obviously gets it to that point faster.

FIXES:

-2 Promo Shuckle ---------- Like you said: a redundant card that adds little to the deck. Opening with him is weak, and drawing into him is a dishearteningly useless sight when you needed something that actually does something..

+1 Tyrogue ---------------- Before testing with this card, I thought it was a bit underwhelming. HOWEVER, in MagneBoar it can be a MAJOR player. That 30 damage turns donphans into 3 energy ko's, and any 110-130 HP into 2 energy ko's. pretty important considering pluspowers aren't an option. BUT! Possibly Most Importantly, he allows for turn 1 donks. nearly EVERY deck plays cleffas, and if they open with one, and you open with a collector, they just got DONKED.
+1 Switch ----------------- You'll need this to get your own sleeping babies out of the way, and a variety of other situations.
+1 Junk Arm -------------- GREAT for reusing switch, communications, or candies. (This brings the count to 60, since you had a free spot)

I would personally at least Consider dropping the 2 Elm's in favor of 2 PONT. I love elms, but.. the PONTs add more consistancy, especially with this next consideration:
Drop one Judge (I know, i know.. it's a great card at 3, but something to consider) for another Junk Arm. These get you back candies, that switch, and the important communications, as well as lower your had size for magnetic draw.

Other cards to Consider:
* Pokemon Circulator ------ Get those annoying sleeping babies OUTTA there.. and keep the KO's rolling. Great with Junk Arm.
* Another Switch ------ This will be very important when catcher comes out.

 

[wyoungb]

Hmm... If you're worried about being limited to 2 Magnezone each game, maybe you could run a 3-1-3 line and use up the other space for another attacker - Reshiram? The other cards taken out can be to support Reshiram such as Energy Retrieval and other stuff or maybe just to add to overall consistency.
Just a thought...

Now many people have suggested this same thing to be "just add reshiram and two energy retrevial". I do understand that becuase reshiram is a basic its easy to get out and could be helpful in a pinch. However that combo is three cards which is the same as adding a 1-1-1 magnezone and having a better chance of getting it out as well. I guess I don't really understand how adding in another attacker helps a deck with the most powerful attack in the format (arguably).

Let me preface this fix by saying that I really like your approach to this deck. As seems to be the case with you, playtesting with 3-1-3 magnezone lines has just proven to be too thin for my taste. While most of the top players agree that 3-1-3 is the best option, 4-2-4 is a matter of personal comfort, taste, and most importantly; playstyle. 4-2-4 works in this build because of your high energy count. also, this decks Thrives mid-late game, and getting a magnezone out obviously gets it to that point faster.

FIXES:

-2 Promo Shuckle ---------- Like you said: a redundant card that adds little to the deck. Opening with him is weak, and drawing into him is a dishearteningly useless sight when you needed something that actually does something..

+1 Tyrogue ---------------- Before testing with this card, I thought it was a bit underwhelming. HOWEVER, in MagneBoar it can be a MAJOR player. That 30 damage turns donphans into 3 energy ko's, and any 110-130 HP into 2 energy ko's. pretty important considering pluspowers aren't an option. BUT! Possibly Most Importantly, he allows for turn 1 donks. nearly EVERY deck plays cleffas, and if they open with one, and you open with a collector, they just got DONKED.
+1 Switch ----------------- You'll need this to get your own sleeping babies out of the way, and a variety of other situations.
+1 Junk Arm -------------- GREAT for reusing switch, communications, or candies. (This brings the count to 60, since you had a free spot)

I would personally at least Consider dropping the 2 Elm's in favor of 2 PONT. I love elms, but.. the PONTs add more consistancy, especially with this next consideration:
Drop one Judge (I know, i know.. it's a great card at 3, but something to consider) for another Junk Arm. These get you back candies, that switch, and the important communications, as well as lower your had size for magnetic draw.

Other cards to Consider:
* Pokemon Circulator ------ Get those annoying sleeping babies OUTTA there.. and keep the KO's rolling. Great with Junk Arm.
* Another Switch ------ This will be very important when catcher comes out.

Thanks for this post! It really make several good points and appreciate the explanations.

First off, I am going to drop the two shuckle, I've come to realize it doesn't really help where as there are cards to add that could. Also, my deck does have 6 lightning energy not 5 so thats my bad. Also, i hate to negate you but i am not droping judge, the card has been so unbelievably helpful i can't even begin to explain. It serves so many useful purposes i can't imagine the deck without it. Next, I'm not against the idea of dropping elm's but I don't see why PONT would be so much more helpful in a deck with so much draw power from pokemon. Especially since i run a heavy judge line (may add a forth). What i can agree with needed now are junk arm and eventually switch (pokemon catcher). tyrogue is an intresting idea but i've never had much luck with sacrificing consistency for a donk. I didn't run dark energy in gyarados even with 4x sableye, seeker, and crobat/poketurn. Pokemon circulator is a highly underated card. often it serves the same purpose reversal does except with no flip. (i ran 3 cyclone energy in gyardos and it won me countless games). I really like the idea of it just don't know how i could fit it without messing with consistency.

Now for the more difficult decision, what do add instead of the shuckles.... since i have so many good options...

 

[SanguineYeti]

Fair enough, sometimes, the same card (judge in this case) just has a way of working out differently for different players.
The PONT idea was simply to get out of bad hands full of dead stage 1 and 2's (which happens to me a fair bit it seems when i run this sort of deck)
I felt like 20 was actually a real solid number for the energy, so a real simple fix to try out might be:
- 2 shuckle
- 1 fire energy

+2 junk arm
+1 pokemon circulator/switch.

 

[DarthKalas]

By reading ur posts I have. Noticed how u can't seem to get out rdl, have u thought of thickening the line? After all its all about being consistent. Also, I have found that junk ARM is most for this deck, being able to drop stuff from ur &and, being able to use what u need, it just helps tremendously.
So what I would change is
-2 schuckle
-1 lightning energy
-2 pelm
+1-1 rdl
+3 junk ARM

As for the things I would take out, well u already said u want schucle out, I personally like 4 but 5 is ok while 6 just seems excessive.after all, how many magnezones do u plan on playing in a game? Around 3 right? So u can put 3 energies on them to attack n the other two can go to either rdl or something else.
As for the elms, well u r already running 4 communications, n with the junk arms u could potentially have 6 or 7
Posted with Mobile style...

 

[wyoungb]

Fair enough, sometimes, the same card (judge in this case) just has a way of working out differently for different players.
The PONT idea was simply to get out of bad hands full of dead stage 1 and 2's (which happens to me a fair bit it seems when i run this sort of deck)
I felt like 20 was actually a real solid number for the energy, so a real simple fix to try out might be:
- 2 shuckle
- 1 fire energy

+2 junk arm
+1 pokemon circulator/switch.

i will replace the shuckles with junk arms. and as i continue to playtest, i will see if i find myself with extra energy and if i do i will thin them down. thanks for the help!

By reading ur posts I have. Noticed how u can't seem to get out rdl, have u thought of thickening the line? After all its all about being consistent. Also, I have found that junk ARM is most for this deck, being able to drop stuff from ur &and, being able to use what u need, it just helps tremendously.
So what I would change is
-2 schuckle
-1 lightning energy
-2 pelm
+1-1 rdl
+3 junk ARM

As for the things I would take out, well u already said u want schucle out, I personally like 4 but 5 is ok while 6 just seems excessive.after all, how many magnezones do u plan on playing in a game? Around 3 right? So u can put 3 energies on them to attack n the other two can go to either rdl or something else.
As for the elms, well u r already running 4 communications, n with the junk arms u could potentially have 6 or 7
Posted with Mobile style...

with the addition of junk arms it does make sense to take out the PETM's however i do not have a second line of RDL handy and they are becomming very expensive and hard to come by, ill probably add a third junk arm and possibly forth judge. my main problem with getting RDL out is having enough energy to drop on it since it comes out so late. i've found myself with almost all energy attached around the field and not enough to actually use RDL... i probably should have specified that

 

[DarthKalas]

oh well, in my playtesting experience, i seem to always have one of the rdl pieces prized, which makes it so hard to get out, though honestly once i get it out i always find the energy to attack with him turn one or two