Medals at Nationals?

[Cyrus]

Cyrus:

Olympics.

The Olympics took a long, long time to get where they are now as far as prestige. Plus, the medals are made out of precious materials (real silver), whereas Pokemon medals in the past have been made of pretty basic stuff. You can't compare dislikes so easily.

As for glass trophies, they don't photograph well, but keep in mind that last year was the first in which Pokemon Organized Play used them at Nats. Trophies from years past were different, and _could_ photograph well.

RE Gorn: seconded. Although it's pleasing to see that the big money items (scholarships, travel awards) are largely in tact. And for media+people who don't get the game, there's a lot of strength behind saying that your tournament's winner gets $5,000.

 

[nnaann]

I don't actually see any difference between 100 and 101 or even 100 and 120.

Extrapolation is fraught with problems but the UK trend is down overall this year This time last year there were around 600 players in the UK ratings. This year we are down by a third. It will be interesting to see what States can add to the numbers. And how this affects nationals which is a different beast to all the other UK events I can't predict other than I don't expect to run out of space at UK Nationals. Last year that was actually a concern as the masters trip could not be won by Sami or Nicholas as they both had trips and that could be expected to bring out a few more masters who even if they don't fancy their chances against Sami view the rest of the field as a much lower standard of play. Will anyone in the UK be able to displace Sami from that 1st place trip that he has made his own for the past several years?

I used that as an hypothetical situation to show how a lack or prizes/or increase can influence factors that have an impact on the prestige of the event itself. I know US Nationals is a tournament a lot of people feel is more difficult to win that Worlds, even though it compares the best player in the US to the best player in the World, because of the huge attendances it gets.

That actually surprises me, are you sure it's just not a problem with people getting registered with the new website? It seems like there's been a lot of growth within the past couple of years in the UK. I remember when only our States/Nationals got a Top 4, but this year already we've had 2 City Championships hit that (one with a Top 8 Cut ), plus your Battle Road was only one Master from that as well.

I'd be surprised if Sami didn't win this year, but considering how luck based this format is, this is probably the best chance people will get for a while.

 

[MudkipPrime]

You know what?

It's the EVENT that gives the prestige to the prize, not the other way around. A Nats medal means exactly the same thing as a Nats trophy.

Do you think Olympic medal winners sit around wishing they had a glass trophy instead? Because only a glass trophy can properly reward achievement, right?

The trophies are nice but . . . they aren't exactly practical. My Nats trophy sits in its box on a shelf. I've taken it out of the box probably twice since I won it.

thats funny cause my dad told me the exact same thing

 

[Lawman]

See, we have a States trophy on display because that is highest won. We have gone to a grand total of one event higher than a States, that was US Nationals, not even gone to a Regionals. This year will change that. I know the odds are against my son winning, they are against most players. But, going by the same idea of limited shelf space, I do not think my son would like to remove his nice big hunk of glass, that displays very nicely with something dark behind it, with a piece of metal that sits flat on the shelf. So what if the medal is from a higher event, it has the same amount of prestige as the "participation" medals he gets.

Angry over getting a DSi instead of a 3DS? Who cares what you can sell it for. Dump the DS altogether and get a decent long lasting memento for what would be a memorable accomplishment.

If it helps, I'll send P!P a check, so they can buy some trophies for US Nationals. Yes, I know there are other Nationals, if someone from those Nations cares enough, they can offer the same thing. Do they have to be heavy pieces of fragile, hard to ship glass? NO! Get a trophy, put a "master ball" on top, engrave it and call it a day! Shipping problem solved, cost problem solved, IMAGE problem solved,


But, it looks like the nice frame for the medal, with a spot for the picture will have to do. Thanks for the great idea. My son has a much better chance of getting a medal in States than anything else and will use that idea if any medal is won. I may actually frame one of his CC medals, it looks nice.

If you knew how much those trophies cost, I'd doubt you would still write that check. Just sayin'

Keith

 

[TcgPlayer2006]

Hahaha! I think that Nationals must have trophy because is a one year event that must be recognized, but with this Nintendo is saving money because Nationals are in 32 countrys or more and they must provide those trophies!

 

[ShuckleLVX]

Right upfront, I like the idea of dumping trophies in favor of more states. I can let slide dumping of trophies for regionals. But I strongly dislike the idea of medals for nationals.

That being said, lots of folks are saying something along the lines of "I wouldn't feel as accomplished just winning a medal". But how about the flip side - Doesn't that make Worlds feel like a greater accomplishment? Now instead of sharing trophy-winnerdom with States, Regionals, and Nationals, Worlds winners stand apart. Just my devils-advocate styled two cents.

 

[Blue Blur]

That might sound okay, for competitive players who really want the trophy. To Little Timmy's mother, who reads on the Pokemon site that if Timmy wins, he'll have to buy his own trophy, it will sound like a lame way to cheat small children out of their money.
Nobody wants to hear "Congratulations, you've won! Here's a code that you can use to get your trophy. It costs 75$ plus shipping and handling." I'd prefer an entry fee to that, and I hate the idea of Premier Events having entry fees.
No parent wants to buy countless booster packs, finally get to see their kid win a tournament, and then either have to spend more money, or tell their child that despite winning, even though everyone else gets a trophy, he can't have one.

OK, so if they charged more for the older divisions? Maybe $25 for Juniors, $50 for Seniors and $75 for masters trophies? And besides, even if they don't redeem the code they still get the medal at the event? And in the US this is all free; as such they get one free commemorative item and one well-appreciated item that requires a fee but is worth it.

...Or P!P could give us back the chance to win trophies next year :clap:

 

[Scorpidad]

If you knew how much those trophies cost, I'd doubt you would still write that check. Just sayin'

Keith

Keith, I said they don't have to be expensive, hard to ship pieces of glass.

 

[ChaosJim]

People paying for their own trophies is pretty ridiculous, and I think there are a large number of solutions that will happen before that.

I think the best part about winning Nationals is the fact that you become NATIONAL CHAMPION.

Still, I do sort of associate a trophy with that. I'm not sure how I feel about a medal by comparison, but as long as I'm still called National Champion I think I could shrug off the difference.

 

[Porii Sames]

I got an idea.

We should boycott winning Nationals.

 

[Elite_4_Allen]

Because we can just teleport to Indianapolis, right? The tournament itself maybe free, but we still spend a lot of money to get there/ prepare.

Of course we can!
Planes are for suckers.

 

[Lawman]

Keith, I said they don't have to be expensive, hard to ship pieces of glass.

Yeah, cause cheap pieces of glass dont break either.

If Pokemon was going to continue w/ trophies, they would want them to look nice IMO, not be cheap.

Keith

 

[SD PokeMom]

*nods to keith*

i don't think people understand the process...and cost...of making a custom trophy for a high-profile event like a national or world championship.

this is not going to be nearly as simple as going down to the local trophy/engraving shop, picking out a generic 'cup' in three different sizes and getting an engraved self-adhesive plaque made and slapped on, like for the local bowling or soccer league.

we haven't even SEEN the medals yet, and people are complaining? i can think of a lot of ways to make a medal just as impressive as a trophy: presentation case, display stand, etc.

jmho
'mom

 

[meganium45]

I am sorry, but I have to agree that the medals are the way to go, when we look at what has happened to the trophies over the last few years.

Back in "the day" (the day being 2004-2007), the trophies that were given out for Nationals were elite.

I love looking up at the PLASTIC 2nd place Nationals trophy my son won - a full color Pikachu with a silver medal.

Then in 2005 - he lands the COOLEST trophy ever made for Pokemon - the Hologram Charizard Trophy for 3rd place. That was simply, well, still a great trophy - glass prism that lights up from the bottom with Charizard in 3-D illuminated on the inside.

Then in 2006 - 1st place GIANT crystal trophy for 1st - impressive.

Then, they started making the tropies look just like "bigger" States and Regionals Trophies and they lost a lot of their cool factor.

I was glad to see Pokemon step outside the box, and try to re-energize the "cool" factor of the awards.

The STS Medals (the Scizor one especially) is one of the coolest items ever made. Way cooler than the 2009 or 2010 Nationals trophies. AND...we got to see it almost a year AFTER it was won being worn around the neck of a MASTERS player at a future event!!!

Mega Murkrow brought it out once in a while on request. What an elite item.

Let's not criticize these until they are seen. If they are lame, then I will say they are lame.

If they are what they certainly could be....then I can't wait to see the kids at Worlds WEARING them!!

Vince

 

[Scorpidad]

If they are what they certainly could be....then I can't wait to see the kids at Worlds WEARING them!!

Vince

Vince, et al.

They will wear them, their parents will let them be worn. Why? Because they can be worn and they are not as cherished or prized as the trophy that can actually be displayed easily.

Does anyone here have little children that play sports? I know you (collective you - Vince, 'Mom, Keith) have been around for a long time, I respect that, I respect that your kids are accomplished. But, kids get medals for showing up at events now. Medals are for PARTICIPATION not for winning, that is what trophies are for. Blame society for that, someone decided not getting a medal for showing up is bad for a kid's character. My son was sick for a soccer tournament once, you know what they did, they gave him his medal anyway, why? Did he win? No, his team didn't and he didn't even show up! And you expect him to think a medal has the same prestige as a trophy?

And yes, winning/placing high/top-cutting is of way more value than any prize (well, OK, I do kinda like the scholarship). But giving a medal for winning is not the same as a trophy.

Yes, I feel strongly about this, too strongly it appears. But, guys, come on. There is no way you can honestly say a medal is better than a trophy to an eight year old.

 

[Chairman Kaga]

Medals are for PARTICIPATION not for winning, that is what trophies are for.

You might want to let the International Olympic Committee know about this rule, I don't think they've heard.

 

[Team Cook]

Vince, et al.

But, kids get medals for showing up at events now. Medals are for PARTICIPATION not for winning, that is what trophies are for. Blame society for that, someone decided not getting a medal for showing up is bad for a kid's character. My son was sick for a soccer tournament once, you know what they did, they gave him his medal anyway, why? Did he win? No, his team didn't and he didn't even show up! And you expect him to think a medal has the same prestige as a trophy?.

What? Now days every player on every team gets a trophy just for participating in a league. YMCA league kids ALWAYS got trophies. I remember when I coached baseball & soccer, I would order little trophies and it didn't matter what place they finished.

Church fishing days give out trophies just because a little boy/girl caught a fish from a lake that was stocked, lol.

Honestly, the trophy losses its luster after a couple of years, it just sits there collecting dust, it's too big, bulky, or doesn't fit well somewhere else in the house so it will sit there in the same place on the mantle and not got looked at or thought about. A medal on the other hand has many options.

A million bucks says we'll see someone wearing a 2011 States, Regional, or National medal at a tournament in 2012, 13, 14, etc. I GUARANTEE it.

 

[bullados]

I've got about 30 trophies sitting in a box at my parents place. I played soccer for 5 years, two leagues a year. Swam for 13. Heck, I've got ones for summer day camp. Did I actually win anything with any of those trophies? Not a one. Every single one is a participation trophy. They sit in a box and gather dust.

Do you want to know what one of my most prized possessions is?

It's a stuffed bear, about the size of your average 3-year-old, to which I have affixed about 13 medals for various achievements. Winning the 100 yard free at Conference when I was 10 years old. Taking 4th out of 40 in another distance race. Taking 5th out of about 50 in another one. Piano achievements. That stuffed bear now weighs about 30 pounds with all the medals I've got on the thing. It's displayed quite prominently in my parents' house because I don't have the space to have it in my current residence.

To me, unless it's a trophy with history like the Stanley Cup or the Lombardi Trophy, it's a participation prize only, not something to be proud of.

 

[meganium45]

Scorpidad.

It must be a Regional thing, as kids in this area get trophies for participation, and medals for doing well.

I do NOT want you to think I am pulling down your child or yourself for wanting the trophies.

I know what it is like to have kids have a "dream" moment, and then to have something happen that affects whether or not that "dream" moment can even happen.

Am I sad that one of my sons will never win a States Trophy? Yeah, I kind of am. It was fun to get the pictures, and be SOOO careful with the trophies and the boxes.

Am I excited about the medals? Yeah, I am.

What will tell you, is whenever the moment happens for your son, whether it be a trophy, a medal, or something else next year, it is up to us, as the organizers, and you as the parents to make the moment feel special and like a dream for those young players.

I can't wait to put the youngsters in their medals, and get their pictures. Same thing we did for the trophies in the day.

I don't care what I am giving out, but I am going to make the 4th place champion feel like a champion, and will make the 1st place champion feel like a deity!

Vince

 

[Scorpidad]

You might want to let the International Olympic Committee know about this rule, I don't think they've heard.

This is not the Olympics, the medals are not precious metals, there is not a hundred plus years of history associated with these medals; what there is, is years of association with trophies. Sarcasm does nothing but aggravate people, please check it at the door.

I have no reason to believe the medals will not be nice, it was said as much in the SPT thread and I have no reason to disbelieve it. And, besides, anyone who wins will enjoy being National Champion more than any medal or trophy. P!P is an amazing company, they provide incredible support for a free activity, both on the casual level and on the competitive level, for that I am thankful and do what I can in return. But, I will not change my opinion that a trophy is a better representation of the accomplishment (of winning Nationals) than a medal is.

Like you said in the counterfeit thread, no matter what I say it gets misconstrued and misrepresented. I am done here, my thoughts are well known.

---------- Post added 03/08/2011 at 05:19 PM ----------

Scorpidad.

I do NOT want you to think I am pulling down your child or yourself for wanting the trophies.

Never in my wildest dreams did I think that!

What will tell you, is whenever the moment happens for your son, whether it be a trophy, a medal, or something else next year, it is up to us, as the organizers, and you as the parents to make the moment feel special and like a dream for those young players.

I can't wait to put the youngsters in their medals, and get their pictures. Same thing we did for the trophies in the day.

I don't care what I am giving out, but I am going to make the 4th place champion feel like a champion, and will make the 1st place champion feel like a deity!

Vince

I will in no way ever diminish the accomplishment of winning an SPT, Regional, etc, no matter what (if any) prize there is. It is an accomplishment, a great one at that! I have talked up the medal to my son and will to anyone who wins one. I will actually use the main argument used here, that it can be worn and not just displayed.

Chris