I'm not even emphasizing the good start here, if you read carefully. I think good start would be to get T1 Gengar without Claydol and Uxie in the format. It does not require good start for SP deck to be able to empty your hand from the pokémon. If SP deck plays 4 Lv.Xs (let's say, 2 Garchomp Lv.X and 2 Luxray Lv.X for example) with something like 10 basics after rotation, they can put down about 8 of those pokémon (6 basics, 2 level ups). You'd have to strike when they Pokéturn a Lv.X, but they propably won't as there is nothing directly threathening them. Note that you will have to get 6 out of 14 pokémons to lost zone. This means, if they have 8 pokémon cards the field and 1 prized, you're limited to 5. Not to mention that almost every SP deck WILL be teching Dialga G Lv.X because of Vileplume decks entering the format. Dialga + Metal = Deafen = Win condition nullified.
Except that you are assuming that the Gengar player will simply not disrupt anything at all and that the pokemon Gengar lost zones are somehow irrelevant.
You are assuming that the player will have both Garchomp C Lv X and both Luxray GL Lv X out before the Gengar attacks once?
Seriously?
How about if the level x is sitting in the lost zone and they have a normal Garchomp C to attack with?
I guess that couldn't happen because the player will trigger their millennium item to make use of the heart of the cards to magic the Lv X they need into their hand (without ever having it in their hand when it isn't their turn)?
There really weren't any Stage 2 speed decks in the format before Kingdra. Why? As Uxie came in the same set as Kingdra. So, we are losing both Claydol and Uxie. You need 4-5 cards in your starting hand to get T1 Gengar (Gastly, Candy/Haunter + B-TS, Gengar, Psychic Energy). Of course, you are able to slow down with Spiritomb and Gastly.
In the current iteration of modified, or are you saying that the modified format never saw stage 2 decks before Uxie came out?
Then, some corrections if we are assuming to have PL-on format (which I would believe we will):
- Azelf will be rotated. Rotom will be coming out. Rotom can basically control your topdeck by taking something from prizes and putting it to topdeck.
So did the Ratatta from the original Team Rocket. It wasn't a staple either.
- Looker's will be rotated. You'll have to fall back on using either powers or Alph Lithograph on that hand-peeking activity.
- Gengar can not remove basics if they're on bench. You can put a basic to your bench at the setup or T1, when you can Gengar at T1 going second at the earliest. You can't really force your opponent to draw the basics either with other than Giratinas and Judges, which are both random shots.
- Gengar will be KO'd. That's a given, as the win condition for SP decks is mostly to draw 6 prizes (unless they go with something crazy like Palkia G/Absol G).
- Lookers probably won't be rotated.
- No way in the world it could ever do that. . . unless it's active when they get knocked out.
- I know that Luxchomp is a strong deck, but it won't exactly be doing 130 every turn.
Are you honestly resorting to saying that Gengar isn't a good card because it doesn't have infinite HP? Really?
OMG 130hp = easy OHKO!
I wonder if you have played Gengar SF? It never really hit the Masters scene here despite the HUGE conditional advantages it has. It was a contender, that's a given, but never really won anything big. You will have to: 1. keep your powers Guarded 2. Keep trainers out from your hand 3. Keep an eye on Relicanth, not lay down too much tools 4. Get around Fainting Spell, which was made increasingly difficult with Nidoqueen. These are some things that incredibly limit the actions of other player. ALSO, they are things that if the other player can control effectively, Gengar is doing nothing against it. Thus, Gengar didn't win States here. Gardy did, Gigas did, Luxchomp did.
Gigas did?
As in Regigigas?
Time to brag about how high-level your area is because a Regigigas won?
So what if the Gengar goes into a spread deck?
They either play everything as fast as they can (easy targets) or hold them in their hand (easy targets)?
It's never too good to rely on your opponent's moves to win the games. This is why I don't believe Gengar Prime's FIRST ATTACK - that was discussed here - will become the main attraction of any higher tier deck. You'll have to give them something more to play around against (like, say, Cursegar switching to Primegar while KOing pokémon, getting them to Lost Zone, able to use the Primegar's first attack if your opponent is for example holding his or her lv.x as if it was being put down, it would end up to Lost zone, too). And these are just the assumptions of mine (high-level, though, but still just mine) - we have seen the hype bandwagons here over and over and over again.
That's like saying that the original Slowking was horrible because you were relying on the opponent not running Muk.
How about, "If you flip tails for all of your Slowkings, the trainer gets through, so the card is garbage and will never win anything"?
The ability to completely remove the opponent's pokemon from the game before it can even be a threat is a huge level of disruption.
Even without the Lost World stadium, that attack can be downright crippling to any deck in the format.
I don't like to hype things, but you seem to think that saying that a mountain is a molehill will make it a molehill.
I call people out on silly hype all the time (like that stupid Vileplume that everybody thinks will change the world), but saying that the card isn't good enough is kind of stupid.
Just to clarify, this Gengar isn't good because:
1. 130 HP isn't high enough for you.
2. A different deck based around a different Gengar doesn't win.
3. The opponent can magically not have any pokemon in their hand because they can play all their basics and lvl Xs before Gengar can attack once.
4. Every SP deck will have turn one or turn two full bench, with rotom and Dialga G using deafen (with the speed they would burn through to get all of that out, they would probably deck out before they could win at 10 damage a turn).
I concede, you have obviously given Gengar every benefit of the doubt by assuming that it will never remove any vital cards from the game, every other deck will have exactly what they need whenever they need it, and pointing out that Gengar will only be good if it has infinite HP. :thumb:
I was a fool to ever think that a stage 2 with massive disruption could ever be viable.
You sir, are a scholar and a gentleman.
