No More Scholarships in Regional Level Events?
- Thread starter Poke Trainer J
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ogremarauder
New Member
To answer the snide question you pose, We also play Pokemon 'for fun'.
The reality though is that this game can be played anywhere for fun. I can sit around someone's house or at a local cardshop and play games 'for fun'. Tournaments that are 100+ miles away from many players(ie. regionals/nats) ARE an investment for parents and should have an incentive for investing 2+ days worth of time, $$$$ on gas/hotel/food. An adult can choose to entertain themself any way they choose, a minor is mostly at the mercy of their parents. Will pokeparents still bring their children to events they themselves choose to attend anyway? I'm sure they will. Will non-pokeparents choose the same without scholarships being a possibility? I would venture that will be mostly a NO. Is that good for the game? Definitely not. Stating that pokemon is played for fun doesn't even address the issue. The issue is growing the game, not 'is the game fun?' Removing scholarships directly impacts the ability of minors to entice parents to invest in larger tournaments. And make no mistake- it is an investment in the eyes of parents that don't play pokemon to pour $$ into
travel expenses that can easily exeed $300 per event.
Phazon Elite
New Member
That's just the way it works. Everywhere.
ogremarauder
New Member
Why/what would you have expected to hear? Overzealous applause for something that was an institutional part of the tournament structure? Thats an unreasonable expectation. Of course you didn't hear about it before they were taken away, no one thought they would make a move like that.
Lucario-Master
New Member
YYYYYEEEESSSSSSS, i honestly think pokemon is run by a bunch of idiots or they are trying to kill the game, unless there are financial problems that we do not know about. I know that they only give you so much money to run events and for prizes, well tell them to make it more. If prizes were even close to magic or WOW I know i would spend more money testing and having the cards.
If you want to spend $10-$20 per even on entrance fees then we can have those kind of prizes. People forget that Pokemon is geared towards younger kids. If P!P gave no prizes at all and just printed cards you would still get young kids getting their parents to buy them cards. As it is now, P!P keeps the events free to have as many people as possible play. I can guarantee you that if entrance fees were implemented attendance would go down in juniors/seniors. Masters would probably not lose too many, but you would lose many the people who just play for fun. If you want to start up some sort of Pro tournament structure that would be fine, but that goes against the basis of Pokemon being targeted towards smaller kids.
PokeMedic
New Member
Nah, neither did I expect to hear overzealous criticism.
Hopefully they'll use the money they took from scholarships to make solid-gold dice with etched pokeball designs to give out to every player at Regionals, States, and Nationals who makes 1st through 4th place.
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Shino Bug Master
Front Page News Editor
Anyone who says the runners of Pokemon are Idiots needs to take a serious step back. Pokemon has made a lot of great steps forward, especially in the last few months. If they say no scholarships for now, i'm willing to wait and see what all is in store.
Poke Trainer J
New Member
If you're just playing the Pokemon TCG as an investment only instead of playing it to have fun and win games then what's the point of playing it in the first place? True humans can be egotistical creatures but just because we want to achieve something it doesn't necessarily mean we can have it all the time, you have to do the best you can to achieve it. That's all you can really ask for and If that's not good enough for you then you only have yourself to blame.
I'm one of those players who isn't overly competitive to the point where making topcut into the semifinals is an obligation I have to make but it is a nice feeling to have. I'll admit there were only 10 Seniors and 6-7 Junior Division players at my most recent BR's where as there were 27-28 Masters overall and yet we still have people who complain about not getting some kind of reward for playing. You'd think winning enough games would be a good enough satisfaction but apparently we want more out of it.
MTG I believe have been scaling back on their prize support as well because of the current state of the Global Economy so the Pokemon TCG isn't alone on this. Just because a TCG company has to make a few sacrifices you sit around and whine that you're not already satisfied with what you already have? At least be thankful that you get to play competitively and be proud of your win/loss record or something. HGSS-On from my point of view is a decent format but then again no format is perfect though If it weren't for SP's last format MD-On would've been perfect.
I'm one of those players who isn't overly competitive to the point where making topcut into the semifinals is an obligation I have to make but it is a nice feeling to have. I'll admit there were only 10 Seniors and 6-7 Junior Division players at my most recent BR's where as there were 27-28 Masters overall and yet we still have people who complain about not getting some kind of reward for playing. You'd think winning enough games would be a good enough satisfaction but apparently we want more out of it.
MTG I believe have been scaling back on their prize support as well because of the current state of the Global Economy so the Pokemon TCG isn't alone on this. Just because a TCG company has to make a few sacrifices you sit around and whine that you're not already satisfied with what you already have? At least be thankful that you get to play competitively and be proud of your win/loss record or something. HGSS-On from my point of view is a decent format but then again no format is perfect though If it weren't for SP's last format MD-On would've been perfect.
Lucario-Master
New Member
I guess I will just have to spell it out for you people, WALL OF TEXT TIME!!!
Pokemon is a corporation, they try to make money. How do they make money? Buy selling us a product(pokemon packs and all the stuff), how do they make us buy it? Create a demand for it, how do they create a demand for pokemon cards? By making People want to play them game, how do you make people play the game? For some people kitchen table or league is fine but for the majority of us we will not continue to play the game unless we can get rewarded with prizes. Yes they do have competitive events and they give out XXX prizes every year but it is a fraction compared to other card games. If the pokemon tcg was a product and it was to be compared to other games, it would be the worst one, longevity is iffy now, way less features then the competitors and very bad management.
Ya they made pokemon online that i will admit is a huge leap for them but magic had online in the 90s, over 10 years before we got it, yes magic has been around longer but even if pokemon came before magic and they were ran the same they are now magic would still be miles ahead.
As for the most likely cause to this, pokemon tcg is given a budget each year, they must run all there events and give our prize support based on that budget. According to them events costs more to run now because of 2 day regionals but day 2 is for VGC so it should not be included on there budget. Also they should just demand more, pokemon is growing and they could make more money if they give people more reasons to buy cards to play competitively.
Another reason this is happening is one I really hope is not correct, Pokemon may be slowly and softly killing the game, they may know that they had a big boom back when it first came out and now expect it to slow down to they are reducing prizes and everything so that eventually they can just call it quits.
I really think pokemon has to increase the prize support to even keep up, decreasing it is a plan for disaster.
A solution is the introduction of a Pro Circuit, big events hosted ALL AROUND THE WORLD that have big prize payouts, and when I mean big I'm talking bigger then worlds(they should bring worlds up too). This allows the very competitive people to have a change at legit prizes and if there is a problem with money we can take more from smaller events like provincials and regionals because according to you people its OK.
The only reason why anything i just said may not be possible is that he head of Pokemon(Nintendo) does not have the money to do this, but for some unknown reason I don't think that's it.
Pokemon is a corporation, they try to make money. How do they make money? Buy selling us a product(pokemon packs and all the stuff), how do they make us buy it? Create a demand for it, how do they create a demand for pokemon cards? By making People want to play them game, how do you make people play the game? For some people kitchen table or league is fine but for the majority of us we will not continue to play the game unless we can get rewarded with prizes. Yes they do have competitive events and they give out XXX prizes every year but it is a fraction compared to other card games. If the pokemon tcg was a product and it was to be compared to other games, it would be the worst one, longevity is iffy now, way less features then the competitors and very bad management.
Ya they made pokemon online that i will admit is a huge leap for them but magic had online in the 90s, over 10 years before we got it, yes magic has been around longer but even if pokemon came before magic and they were ran the same they are now magic would still be miles ahead.
As for the most likely cause to this, pokemon tcg is given a budget each year, they must run all there events and give our prize support based on that budget. According to them events costs more to run now because of 2 day regionals but day 2 is for VGC so it should not be included on there budget. Also they should just demand more, pokemon is growing and they could make more money if they give people more reasons to buy cards to play competitively.
Another reason this is happening is one I really hope is not correct, Pokemon may be slowly and softly killing the game, they may know that they had a big boom back when it first came out and now expect it to slow down to they are reducing prizes and everything so that eventually they can just call it quits.
I really think pokemon has to increase the prize support to even keep up, decreasing it is a plan for disaster.
A solution is the introduction of a Pro Circuit, big events hosted ALL AROUND THE WORLD that have big prize payouts, and when I mean big I'm talking bigger then worlds(they should bring worlds up too). This allows the very competitive people to have a change at legit prizes and if there is a problem with money we can take more from smaller events like provincials and regionals because according to you people its OK.
The only reason why anything i just said may not be possible is that he head of Pokemon(Nintendo) does not have the money to do this, but for some unknown reason I don't think that's it.
baby mario
Front Page Article Editor<br><a href="http://pokeg
Pokemon is a corporation.
The global economy is going down the toilet.
ALL corporations are cutting back on their budgets. Look at the number of people who have lost their jobs.
Pokemon OP has a budget freeze (which is a lot better than cuts). I don't know why people think Pokemon is weirdly immune to what is going on in the World and can somehow spend its way to greater profits, Fact is, Pokemon is a hobby and when times are hard, people spend less money on their hobbies. They could treble the prizes for regionals or introduce a MTG style pro tour, but they would nowhere near make that money back in increased sales.
I don't like budget freezes and cuts in prize support, but the way things are in the world, it could be a lot worse.
The global economy is going down the toilet.
ALL corporations are cutting back on their budgets. Look at the number of people who have lost their jobs.
Pokemon OP has a budget freeze (which is a lot better than cuts). I don't know why people think Pokemon is weirdly immune to what is going on in the World and can somehow spend its way to greater profits, Fact is, Pokemon is a hobby and when times are hard, people spend less money on their hobbies. They could treble the prizes for regionals or introduce a MTG style pro tour, but they would nowhere near make that money back in increased sales.
I don't like budget freezes and cuts in prize support, but the way things are in the world, it could be a lot worse.
Lucario-Master
New Member
DO YOU SEE THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE PLAYING POKEMON GO DOWN?
I've seen it go up since the recession, and times are not as bad as they were before(that may not be true for some people because i like in Canada) Now i know that more people could be playing but pay less but i dont see that being the case,and until pokemon releases an official statement on why stuff like this is happening I will continue to say its horrible running of a company, there is nothing wrong with them saying times are hard but if the wont then everything must be fine right?
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baby mario
Front Page Article Editor<br><a href="http://pokeg
Please don't font shout. It's rude.
I don't know what 'the resection' is, so I can't answer that. If you look at worldwide Nats attendance, the Junior and Senior divisions have been in decline for the last 2 years.
The won't release a statement about the economy being tough because
a) they don't have to
b) their finances are private information
and c) it should be obvious
TPCI has posted on here and explained that their budget is frozen and they are trying to make the best use of it. Not everyone is going to agree on what they should do, but most people who criticise them don't have any idea what's going on behind the scenes with their budget and costs. And there's no way they will share that information. It's confidential and there's no entitlement to know.
I don't know what 'the resection' is, so I can't answer that. If you look at worldwide Nats attendance, the Junior and Senior divisions have been in decline for the last 2 years.
The won't release a statement about the economy being tough because
a) they don't have to
b) their finances are private information
and c) it should be obvious
TPCI has posted on here and explained that their budget is frozen and they are trying to make the best use of it. Not everyone is going to agree on what they should do, but most people who criticise them don't have any idea what's going on behind the scenes with their budget and costs. And there's no way they will share that information. It's confidential and there's no entitlement to know.
Lucario-Master
New Member
I want them to be more open about whats going on, don't get some guy or 2 to post of a forum saying they are having problems. I want an official statement on the pokemon site saying that they are having some hard times so this, this and this are happening. I don't want financial statements, just them to be open. But as of now they have not done such.
MTG is doubling the amount of major events that they are doing this year, and giving more trips to events. I know pokemon is different then magic but they are doing something right, also its kinda hard to argue when you seem to know information that is not open to the public and cannot release it.
MTG is doubling the amount of major events that they are doing this year, and giving more trips to events. I know pokemon is different then magic but they are doing something right, also its kinda hard to argue when you seem to know information that is not open to the public and cannot release it.
Merry X-mas.
http://www.tse.or.jp/english/
Note: Link is to the japanese stock exchange public trade site. Type in "nintendo" and be amazed.
Otaku
Active Member
Let's see...
It is sad they are cutting the scholarships but if the money is needed elsewhere, it is needed elsewhere. Some people will have to stop playing: their budget for Pokemon depended upon the chance they might "win" some of the money invested back through the tournaments. This is less a financial reason than an ethical one: if your budget is so tight you simply should not be attempting to play Pokemon competitively. You are free to, and to complain about these changes, but I am also free to claim it is foolish. There are other hobbies that are fun and can prove profitable, and more reliably than Pokemon and its scholarship money.
If you (your parents, etc.) can't justify investing enough to play in this game competitively without at least potential returns, so be it. It is unfortunate but the scholarships are failing to keep attendance steady, let alone raise it. I would point out there are many benefits from playing the Pokemon TCG besides winning scholarships. It is a great learning exercise and I personally have learned much from my involvement with this game... which began with its release when I was a Junior in High School! Younger players have even more they may learn or hone through involvement with the game.
Many are favoring entry fees to improve Prize support, but I must advise caution: you do not want to encourage "mercenary" players who are here just for the Prize support. I personally saw the problem this caused in Yu-Gi-Oh and while not admissible as fact here, have been given anecdotal evidence (largely through others' first-hand accounts) of what this does to Magic: The Gathering. Spirit of the Game dies in these venues, because you have created a great incentive to kill it!
I already know players who have had their decks stolen at tournaments. I sincerely doubt this is because of the inherent value of the cards, because even during the more expensive times of Pokemon, we aren't talking that much of a monetary gain. These thefts take place during the tournament, when someone having a deck stolen can lead to the victim being disqualified, unless they can quickly pull together replacements for the stolen cards!
If Pokemon becomes a game players play only for the Prizes, the secondary market will explode. If you can play this children's card game well (or coach your own children well enough) you can get a lot from playing it... especially if you aren't good enough to do it with other, similar venues. Again this is anecdotal (after all, I can't even remember these player's names) so I will just say I got the impression that the Yu-Gi-Oh players who just "played to win" couldn't cut it in the climate of Magic: The Gathering.
As for suggestions about selectively charging for entry fees... either charge a flat fee or do not. I know there is a desire to make it fair but guess what? TPCi has yet to get God to run OP. Mortal man has to invest far, far too much to make sure people don't play the system... and we already know that more players in the 14- divisions are having others pay their way than those in the older brackets. That is to say, if someone's parents has the money to keep them in Pokemon competitively, why is it any more "fair" to ask that person pay than a similarly blessed adult who pays his own way?
What about situations where the family who has a single child has plenty of money to play, but a family full of dedicated players has to sit things out because they literally have spent all they can on the game, and any more makes it financially infeasible. I've had to walk away from great deals because I was just a few bucks shy. It isn't a cost vs. benefit issue, its a threshold of "I can spend X and no more." Plus even assuming there is flexibility... longtime family of four where everyone plays comes up against a $20 entry fee and all players are in the Master's Division, that's an extra $80 for the event!
Asking for entry fees in general is risky: as stated there is evidence to the contrary that the money will not go into Prizes, and even those well meaning by suggesting improving other aspects of the tournament... what about those of us who can't enjoy it? I am morbidly obese with Irritable Bowel Syndrome that severely restricts my diet. My standard operating procedure for tournaments is to eat a light breakfast, drink plenty of water, maybe allow myself some foods that are incredibly easy to digest and providing just enough calories to avoid serious issues, and not eat for real until it is all said and done. Anything else, and if my condition flairs up I risk DQing myself from the event! I can't even drink coffee anymore: I so miss caffeine.*While a hat is nice, I have a big head (even ignoring my weight) so getting one that fits well can be tricky. Events with free shirts? I get them if it doesn't deprive anyone else, just to see if someone else I know wants it (like a friend or family member): it does me no direct good.
Here's a thought: if we want to make big events more rewarding for players without taxing the TPCi budget? How about exclusive merchandise to purchase at events? Works for many conventions. Top player's might get some freebies, everyone else can just pay-up. Didn't attend? Learn to live without it or pay for the secondary market. This helps encourage people to attend, and I know a lot of conventions where players get to enjoy themselves because the "swag" they get (including what they actually purchase) gets resold to cover a large chunk of the expense. While still hardly full proof, it seems a better deal than competing and hoping you're "the best" for a scholarship.
*Technically I get small doses of caffeine from certain foods, but nothing significant enough to make my earlier statement untrue if taken completely literally.
tl;dr: If this was about the bottom line, Nintendo could cut all OP, focus on the video games and cash in on the name alone to maintain profitability, just like so many other TCGs. No, not a summary but if someone didn't want to read all the above, this is the part that trumps it all anyway: OP is all optional for Pokemon! The amount of clients who buy into the game for "Organized Play" pales in comparison to "random little kids" driving sales!
It is sad they are cutting the scholarships but if the money is needed elsewhere, it is needed elsewhere. Some people will have to stop playing: their budget for Pokemon depended upon the chance they might "win" some of the money invested back through the tournaments. This is less a financial reason than an ethical one: if your budget is so tight you simply should not be attempting to play Pokemon competitively. You are free to, and to complain about these changes, but I am also free to claim it is foolish. There are other hobbies that are fun and can prove profitable, and more reliably than Pokemon and its scholarship money.
If you (your parents, etc.) can't justify investing enough to play in this game competitively without at least potential returns, so be it. It is unfortunate but the scholarships are failing to keep attendance steady, let alone raise it. I would point out there are many benefits from playing the Pokemon TCG besides winning scholarships. It is a great learning exercise and I personally have learned much from my involvement with this game... which began with its release when I was a Junior in High School! Younger players have even more they may learn or hone through involvement with the game.
Many are favoring entry fees to improve Prize support, but I must advise caution: you do not want to encourage "mercenary" players who are here just for the Prize support. I personally saw the problem this caused in Yu-Gi-Oh and while not admissible as fact here, have been given anecdotal evidence (largely through others' first-hand accounts) of what this does to Magic: The Gathering. Spirit of the Game dies in these venues, because you have created a great incentive to kill it!
I already know players who have had their decks stolen at tournaments. I sincerely doubt this is because of the inherent value of the cards, because even during the more expensive times of Pokemon, we aren't talking that much of a monetary gain. These thefts take place during the tournament, when someone having a deck stolen can lead to the victim being disqualified, unless they can quickly pull together replacements for the stolen cards!
If Pokemon becomes a game players play only for the Prizes, the secondary market will explode. If you can play this children's card game well (or coach your own children well enough) you can get a lot from playing it... especially if you aren't good enough to do it with other, similar venues. Again this is anecdotal (after all, I can't even remember these player's names) so I will just say I got the impression that the Yu-Gi-Oh players who just "played to win" couldn't cut it in the climate of Magic: The Gathering.
As for suggestions about selectively charging for entry fees... either charge a flat fee or do not. I know there is a desire to make it fair but guess what? TPCi has yet to get God to run OP. Mortal man has to invest far, far too much to make sure people don't play the system... and we already know that more players in the 14- divisions are having others pay their way than those in the older brackets. That is to say, if someone's parents has the money to keep them in Pokemon competitively, why is it any more "fair" to ask that person pay than a similarly blessed adult who pays his own way?
What about situations where the family who has a single child has plenty of money to play, but a family full of dedicated players has to sit things out because they literally have spent all they can on the game, and any more makes it financially infeasible. I've had to walk away from great deals because I was just a few bucks shy. It isn't a cost vs. benefit issue, its a threshold of "I can spend X and no more." Plus even assuming there is flexibility... longtime family of four where everyone plays comes up against a $20 entry fee and all players are in the Master's Division, that's an extra $80 for the event!
Asking for entry fees in general is risky: as stated there is evidence to the contrary that the money will not go into Prizes, and even those well meaning by suggesting improving other aspects of the tournament... what about those of us who can't enjoy it? I am morbidly obese with Irritable Bowel Syndrome that severely restricts my diet. My standard operating procedure for tournaments is to eat a light breakfast, drink plenty of water, maybe allow myself some foods that are incredibly easy to digest and providing just enough calories to avoid serious issues, and not eat for real until it is all said and done. Anything else, and if my condition flairs up I risk DQing myself from the event! I can't even drink coffee anymore: I so miss caffeine.*While a hat is nice, I have a big head (even ignoring my weight) so getting one that fits well can be tricky. Events with free shirts? I get them if it doesn't deprive anyone else, just to see if someone else I know wants it (like a friend or family member): it does me no direct good.
Here's a thought: if we want to make big events more rewarding for players without taxing the TPCi budget? How about exclusive merchandise to purchase at events? Works for many conventions. Top player's might get some freebies, everyone else can just pay-up. Didn't attend? Learn to live without it or pay for the secondary market. This helps encourage people to attend, and I know a lot of conventions where players get to enjoy themselves because the "swag" they get (including what they actually purchase) gets resold to cover a large chunk of the expense. While still hardly full proof, it seems a better deal than competing and hoping you're "the best" for a scholarship.
*Technically I get small doses of caffeine from certain foods, but nothing significant enough to make my earlier statement untrue if taken completely literally.
tl;dr: If this was about the bottom line, Nintendo could cut all OP, focus on the video games and cash in on the name alone to maintain profitability, just like so many other TCGs. No, not a summary but if someone didn't want to read all the above, this is the part that trumps it all anyway: OP is all optional for Pokemon! The amount of clients who buy into the game for "Organized Play" pales in comparison to "random little kids" driving sales!
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Lucario-Master
New Member
A random kid who plays the game may but packs for a while, but when they get older they will drop it if there is no motivation to keep on playing. Also there is no way that dropping scholarships will help attendance.
P.S I was told that masters will still get scholarships, that its only juniors and seniors who will not, just confirming.
P.S I was told that masters will still get scholarships, that its only juniors and seniors who will not, just confirming.
Just because you heard masters still get scholarships doesn't confirm it. Nothing on the official site says masters are getting them.
Do me a favor. Google the world birth rate for me. Now the death rate. Compare. They don't need to hold onto the kids that age out, they're perfectly content grabbing the new ones just starting. I'd be willing to venture that the number of kids that "start Pokemon" in a given year is larger than the number of masters players in existence.
---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=36.816507,-119.749836
ogremarauder
New Member
I tired of all the "stop whining about it" comments that ppl are posting. I do not think anyone is "whining" about scholarships. I for one will still play this game with my children no matter what the prize payout for large tournaments is. The only thing that will change is the amt of $$ and time I will invest in travelling to regionals/nats.
As far as the rest of pokedom, I do feel that dropping scholarships will hurt the "tournament" scene as a whole; If the point is to draw in new players. As I said b4 and others have as well- We are only stating that non-invested parents will continue to be such without the draw of a meaningful possibility of reward(a shcolarship). In most extracirricular activities, the idea(beyond the participation and comradery that is found in ANY social activity) is to wind up with a college that will pay for your education in return for your participation. Maybe even higher dreams of being asked to join a professional team/group/ensemble/ect. What makes anyone think that the averagePARENTwho spends the $$ (not minor child who plays) wouldn't view Pokemon in the same way?
I think a big factor I've heard mention of is the fact that OP is part of advertising. Maybe this needs to be re-evaluated
and OP should be its own division, instead of a sub-group of a sub-group?
As far as the rest of pokedom, I do feel that dropping scholarships will hurt the "tournament" scene as a whole; If the point is to draw in new players. As I said b4 and others have as well- We are only stating that non-invested parents will continue to be such without the draw of a meaningful possibility of reward(a shcolarship). In most extracirricular activities, the idea(beyond the participation and comradery that is found in ANY social activity) is to wind up with a college that will pay for your education in return for your participation. Maybe even higher dreams of being asked to join a professional team/group/ensemble/ect. What makes anyone think that the averagePARENTwho spends the $$ (not minor child who plays) wouldn't view Pokemon in the same way?
I think a big factor I've heard mention of is the fact that OP is part of advertising. Maybe this needs to be re-evaluated
and OP should be its own division, instead of a sub-group of a sub-group?
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