Non-Professor wins Professor Cup!

[Box of Fail]

(b) Under this chapter, a person's control over property of another person is "unauthorized" if it is exerted:

(4) by creating or confirming a false impression in the other person;

(5) by failing to correct a false impression that the person knows is influencing the other person, if the person stands in a relationship of special trust to the other person;

This is almost certainly meant as a safeguard against misrepresenting the item in question or the payment in a voluntary transaction, e.g. grossly misrepresenting the value of payment, neglecting to mention that a house you're selling has a large mortgage on it, not mentioning that a laptop you're selling is defective, etc.

I would be VERY surprised if entry into a tournament were covered by this law. Especially in the case of P!P which is a company, I would naturally expect that (legally speaking) their failure to consult their own database would make this their responsibility.

Aires did not misrepresent the supposedly "stolen" item or the payment to obtain it (seeing as there was none). P!P has no case.

 

[cole]

@ Rocketman

My post and opinion was subjective to the matter we were talking about?

Comparing it to shoplifting is just....dumb....

sorry but everyone understands shoplifting is stealing, there is no subjective matter that can change the fact that taking something that isn't yours is stealing.

In his case there were alot more factors to consider...

 

[Spidy]

to Rush17:
i think its noble thy you are returning the prizes

but do you think it would be a good idea to give the trophy to the girl you beat in the finals?

 

[cole]

And I agree that the people checking in did make a mistake. But you dont find it just a little funny that it was publicly know that everyone needed to have these qualifying items and he knowingly didnt. Hmmm.

Don't you find it just a little funny that he said up front he didn't know if he qualified, and they said they would check into it and didn't ?

 

[Tylertyphlosion]

Agreed.

Most of the viewpoints have now been presented.

 

[Jaeger]

Talk is cheap to everybody involved will see what P!P really does as well if this kid actually returns anything

Sorry kid your 18 now and not a minor the days of doing stupid crap and knowing nothing will happen but a slap on the wrist are over...Being an adult really sucks sometimes.

 

[cole]

Agreed.

Going back and forth about this is going to get nowhere. What has happened has fallen into one hell of a grey area, we all agree it's a "naughty" thing to do. He has admitted it, said he will give everything back e.t.c so I don't think this conversation can really go anywhere from here (other than downhill)

 

[Chairman Kaga]

This is almost certainly meant as a safeguard against misrepresenting the item in question or the payment in a voluntary transaction, e.g. grossly misrepresenting the value of payment, neglecting to mention that a house you're selling has a large mortgage on it, not mentioning that a laptop you're selling is defective, etc.

You're talking about fraud, not theft. The things you're arguing make no sense in the context of theft.

Especially in the case of P!P which is a company,

A corporation or similar legal entity is the same as a person in matters of law.

I would naturally expect that (legally speaking) their failure to consult their own database would make this their responsibility.

If you leave your front door open by accident, and someone walks in and steals stuff, it's still burglary.

 

[grassmaster239]

It was posted and advertised that you had to be a professor and had to have 75 or more points. He knew he needed to be a professor and wasnt. You dont consider the misrepresentation?

But he told them he wasn't sure if he could enter. It is equally the judges fault for not checking after he gave fair warning that he wasn't sure if he could play.

 

[cole]

Yes i do. I have openly said that those doing the check in made a mistake letting him in. Now do you find it ok that he participated in the event and took prizes from it know full well he shouldnt have even bee there in the first place?

Integrity?? Honor?? Oh yeah thats right. Thiese things dont matter anymore when someone makes a mistake.

No I don't think that's allright, I have also openly admitted that it wasn't ok that he participated. He certainly didn't "Take prizes from it" as he WON the prizes. But yes since he technically shouldn't have been allowed to enter, he shouldn't have been allowed to WIN (not TAKE as he didn't TAKE he was GIVEN) the prizes.

Integrity ? Honor?

Oh yeah thats right. He admitted publicly and will now be hated by many, has been banned from pokemon for life (speculation) and has said he will return everything he wrongfully WON (again, didn't take)

Although it may not be as "honorable" as doing the right thing first time around, it shows alot of integrity to follow it through like this?

 

[SD PokeMom]

No I don't think that's allright, I have also openly admitted that it wasn't ok that he participated. He certainly didn't "Take prizes from it" as he WON the prizes. But yes since he technically shouldn't have been allowed to enter, he shouldn't have been allowed to WIN (not TAKE as he didn't TAKE he was GIVEN) the prizes.

Integrity ? Honor?

Oh yeah thats right. He admitted publicly and will now be hated by many, has been banned from pokemon for life (speculation) and has said he will return everything he wrongfully WON (again, didn't take)

Although it may not be as "honorable" as doing the right thing first time around, it shows alot of integrity to follow it through like this?

nope, because he had no intention of returning anything until told to; read the article, everything's been disposed of BEFORE the article was posted. not to mention that his trophy auction is still up...

jmho
'mom

 

[siLPH_Co]

What you guys haven't heard Kent State's slogan? "Kent read, Kent write, Kent win the Professor Cup without lying and cheating. Kent State."

Hope I don't see you on campus anytime soon. You will get an ear full as I'm not too thrilled by this at all. :nonono:









(Kent = Can't for you slowpokes out there)

 

[yuki_potsd]

i cant believe professors are complaining about 22 packs of a set they filled 3x over, an amazon kindle (should bought one with the money u could have earned while you were crying on this forum at work.), a professor backpack they can most likely get for hosting a PR or 2, and a piece of scrap metal they can can get and fix up from a flea market.
I had a friend who played in the cup, he dropped out because it wasnt that serious. If you wanna win something im more then sure you can enter a battle road in the fall (because you really dont need all that much staff), and win there. God forbid a random bakugan player picks up a easy deck and knocks someone outta top cup and wins 0.0 i can imagine professors running onto targerts and walmarts across america , destroying all the bakugan in sight.
smh...

 

[Rush17]

I'm giving everything back and accepting the punishment! Hope this will make some people happy

 

[wyoungb]

Mods, why is this not closed? Its just a bunch of emotional hating and bickering since page 1...

Because the mods are professors who feel they have personal stake of the matter at hand. This thread is pretty much a joke now. P!P isn't going to sue anyone. The kid will get a ban of some sort just like all kids who do this get. And he'll (probably) keep the prizes. After all, whether the professors on this site will admit it or not, it was still partial fault of the organizers that this happened.

When a party walks out on a waitress, the waitress has to pay for the lost monies on that check. Even though the party is also in the wrong, it is still the responsibility of the waitress to make sure in doesn't happen... same principal applies to this situation.

---------- Post added 08/03/2011 at 01:30 AM ----------

I'm giving everything back and accepting the punishment! Hope this will make some people happy

Don't give it back unless they ask. Which they probably won't because it's chump change in the long run. If giving it back or not doesn't lessen your "sentence" there's no point. I've never heard of P!P asking for anything back and i doubt it'll happen now... again just speculation. Just wait for P!P that's what I'm getting at. If you really want to give something back just give it to the person who go second, but not to Pokemon.

 

[cole]

Oh and thanks to those of you defending him, and the fact that he was ok to be in the tournament because of a mistake or an oversite.

I just want to point out that I am not defending him or his actions, I know it may seem like it from some of my post's

Heck even I would think I was defending him reading through my post's so let me make it clear right here and now that what he did was WRONG.

Was it as wrong as shoplifting ? No.
Was it as wrong as Identity Theft ? No.

But it was indeed wrong. Yes he wasn't originally going to hand back what he got, but is he going to now? Yes.

I just feel that people are taking this matter as if he is some huge criminal mastermind who has been plotting to destroy the professor cup from the inside out. That's what im defending here.

Perhaps we have different outlooks on life? We are all different, we all react to different things in different ways. But at the end of the day His actions didn't really Hurt anyone...

People are upset, people didn't get the prizes he got blah blah blah...but no-one is dieing? No-one's life has been ruined?

Perhaps I'm the idiot here, and I may need to see it the way some of you all see it?

 

[Rush17]

Theres been some confusion of how I entered the tournament. This is exactly how it went down -

I went up to the registration desk that had 3 professors and told them that I had my own league and asked how many seasons would give me enough points. They said 3 and I told them I had enough and I should be in the systemThey said they would look and so forth/

So, yeah, I did lie because I knew I wasn't a prof but that's the one little thing that set off this chain of events.

 

[Articjedi]

So, guys, out of curiosity, what if someone pulled this off at a certain other invitation only pokemon event, say the world championships? I just wonder how the reactions among the individuals around here would change.

 

[Mystery Thing]

I'm giving everything back and accepting the punishment! Hope this will make some people happy

This, and ONLY this, is why I am putting the brakes on this thread for now. People's opinions on who's at fault, should they give the stuff back, etc etc is going to be split and nobody who has established an opinion is going to be swayed. As such, the only further that this thread can go towards is continued pot shots, and quite frankly, I'm getting tired of having to watch this thing so much. I had costume making to do tonight, danggit! :tongue:

Seriously though, in my view, this thread has reached its inevitable conclusion. They have said they will give the stuff back. I hope that they follow through, because if anything can help their case at this point, that's probably it. For those calling for his ejection from school, I personally hope that you stop being so harsh. Yes, they screwed up big. Yes, it was a conscious decision. Yes, punishment is very likely coming down, and it will be deserved. But that said, we are talking about a card game. I am all for you being mad about what they did (and as people ought to be). But to suggest that their future should be cut out from under them for it? That seems more than a little extreme, in my opinion.


People's opinions have been established. Nobody will change their mind. Rush, I genuinely hope for your sake that you are honestly sorry. I hope that you do return the prizes and accept the consequences. But to everybody else, the dirty laundry has been aired. We've all seen it. What happens now is between P!P and the player.

Move along. We've all seen everything that there is to be seen here.

 

[SD PokeMom]

I just want to point out that I am not defending him or his actions, I know it may seem like it from some of my post's

Heck even I would think I was defending him reading through my post's so let me make it clear right here and now that what he did was WRONG.

Was it as wrong as shoplifting ? No.
Was it as wrong as Identity Theft ? No.

But it was indeed wrong. Yes he wasn't originally going to hand back what he got, but is he going to now? Yes.

I just feel that people are taking this matter as if he is some huge criminal mastermind who has been plotting to destroy the professor cup from the inside out. That's what im defending here.

Perhaps we have different outlooks on life? We are all different, we all react to different things in different ways. But at the end of the day His actions didn't really Hurt anyone...

People are upset, people didn't get the prizes he got blah blah blah...but no-one is dieing? No-one's life has been ruined?

Perhaps I'm the idiot here, and I may need to see it the way some of you all see it?

you're not going to be able to see it the way the professors who are angry about this until:

--you spend 3, 4, more hours a week EVERY week running a league: keeping track of games played on scorecards, making sure you have supplies, distributing promos and patches to those who have earned them, supervising trades, answering rulings questions, talking to parents who are new to the game, reporting the league, keeping track of player IDs, and on and on and on...for in many cases, YEARS.

--you give up playing in local events...BRs, cities, states, regionals...in order to ensure that the event runs well for everyone else by judging or staffing...

--you do all the above and more and rarely get a 'thanks' or appreciation for what you do from those players who receive the benefits...a league or tournaments to play in. instead you get complaints when league shipments don't arrive when expected or the promos aren't to players' liking...or attacked online when players don't like the way you do things at your events, even though they benefit from said events.

but you do this for the love of the game and for the people who DO appreciate what you do for them...which includes the good folks at TPCi.

and one of the ways they show just how they appreciate the work we do week in and week out is to put on the professor cup for those who are able to make it to us nationals. not everyone who is eligible to play, can be there...and not everyone eligible can play even if they ARE at nats.

practically everyone wearing a red staff shirt at nats would have been eligible to play...but were happy to be there to help put on the 'big show' for everyone else who attended, even if that meant we had to miss the cup. given the choice, staff or play...i'd dare say it would be a unanimous 'staff'...

sure there were twinges of regret when we learned that the cup would conflict with top cuts...we're only human and like to play the game, after all...especially for those of us who remember being able to play in the cup when it was held the friday before nats. but once the event got large enough that it HAD to go to three days for the good of the players and staff, we understood.

and THAT'S WHY professors are so outraged at this player. besides being completely against SotG and the professor core values, his doing this essentially cheapened the small sacrifices each one of us make to grow the game and OP day in and day out by taking away the one big event that was 'ours': the professor cup.

honor was mentioned upthread as the reason why the professor cup event has traditionally been a casual one with kids as the judges, no deck lists/checks to make sure decks met format, etc. it was a given that professors would play to the highest standard and that the event would stay 'fun' for all...no matter what the prizes were.

sadly, it seems that has all changed with this stunt. just how many professors do you think are going to get the benefit of the doubt from now on, should they state they're qualified for the cup when the printout or whatever states 'no'? assuming there ARE professor cups in future, that is...

we do it all for the players...and THIS is what a pretty decent number of those players find 'cool' or 'funny' or not a big thing? talk about a slap in the face... =/

/*rant

jmho
'mom