Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Oklahoma state championships

Hmmmm a female by the name of boyhood wants to judge my looks. Let's move on here. I'm happy the kid found his DS!

---------- Post added 03/16/2011 at 01:53 AM ----------

Martin -


For Martin - You must have forgot I told you I also talked to Pokepop, and he would've done something different than what we did. Don't know who you talked to, unless you mean Birch. Go ahead and write the report to POP. I feel my staff was justified in what they did. And I do have the sleeves by the way.


Wait, I just caught this. You just admitted to stealing my sleeves? And I'm the one who got punished in the tournament? Wow, the way you guys do thngs in Oklahoma is different than everywhere else in the country I've played this year. You guys can learn from the Ohio area when it comes to running a tournament IMO.
 
Well, here's my side of the story to the whole judging fiasco.

I thought everything was run smoothly (ON MY PART). The whole sleeve situation was handled well on my part. The judges basically noticed that 10 of my sleeves were marked because they had a manufacturing defect because each Ultra Pro pack comes in 50. I had to use 2 packs and the second pack had faulty sleeves that I didn't notice (nor did the deck checker might I add).

I thought Fish was very professional and considerate when he pulled me aside and started talking to me about the situation at hand. He showed me the sleeves and asked if I could tell the difference. I did notice it at that point, although not until that point. He then told me I would get a game loss for having marked sleeves rather than being DQ'd because he had talked with the judges and Jose and determined that this wasn't intentional and simply a factory defect. Obviously, I was a little upset, naturally. BUT, at the same time, I knew that the judges had to give some penalty because the sleeves were obviously faulty. I'm really glad they didn't decide to DQ me because that would have pissed me off because I am not a cheater, and would never intentionally do that. I even pulled out my extra 40 sleeves I had and showed the judges, and sure enough all the other 40 sleeves had the same mark on them that I hadn't noticed. I also thank Jose for vouching for me on my character as a player. I don't think I could've topped 4 nats last year being a cheater.

I really do wish me and Martin could have played the match out completely though, because our 1 game was very close and a really amazing game that could have really gone either way.

Overall, though, I think the judges did what they had to do, and I respect them for that.
Now, I think the deck checkers should take a few more seconds when they are checking sleeves, so these types of situations don't occur to legitimate players in top cuts. I also take responsibility for my deck and sleeves though, and this is the reason I didn't argue with the judges. That, and it's just a freaking Pokemon game haha. I have more important things in life going on then to get all pissy about 1 states tournament.

But, special props to Fish and my other judges in top cut. They all were very respectful and nice, and I personally had no problems.

This is speaking for myself though, so the other situations I cannot talk about.

EDIT: And to Martin, I really enjoyed our game and wish we could've done a legit match. Sucks we had to play under those conditions bro. Ur a great player though, and it was one of my toughest games in the tournament.
 
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After reading, I do not want to get caught up in a back and forth so I will Post the Rules and then the decision making process and that is where I will stop:

7
.2. Marked Cards
Cards in a player’s decks that are clearly distinguishable from other cards in the deck during play are
called marked. A variety of conditions can cause the cards in a player’s deck to become marked. Because
marked cards can give a player foresight into the next card that he or she will draw, the contents of his
or her deck, or the location of a specific card in the player’s deck, marked cards cannot be allowed in a 9
Pokémon Organized Play Penalty Guidelines
Rev: September 1, 2010
player’s deck at a sanctioned Pokémon TCG event. If the problem is caught during deck checks prior to
the start of the event, these errors can be corrected without issuing a penalty.
While considering the severity of penalty to be assessed based on advantage, the tournament staff
should take into account both the markings on the cards or sleeves, and the variety of cards that have
these markings. For example, if five different cards in a player’s deck are marked due to sleeve length, it
is reasonable to assume that little advantage was gained, as knowledge of which cards are in those
sleeves provides very little advantage. However, in the same example, if the cards all have a similar
mechanic, such as allowing the player to search their deck for a Pokémon, significant advantage could
have been gained, so a stronger penalty should be applied
.
If a player is required to resleeve a deck due to deck problems, the player should be strongly
encouraged to randomize the deck prior resleeving. In the event that there is a flaw in the new sleeves
that goes undetected initially, randomizing the deck will reduce the likelihood of a pattern occurring.
Players are always responsible for the condition of their cards and card sleeves, even if any problems
were missed by the event staff during a previous deck check.

7.2.2. Major
This penalty applies to a player who has marked cards or sleeves and there is a discernable
pattern to which cards are marked. Because the possibility for a player to gain an advantage is
high, the penalties associated with this category are more severe.
Further investigation may be
required to determine if the markings are intentional, or if the player is using accidental
markings to intentionally gain advantage. If this proves to be the case, the penalty should be
escalated to Unsporting Conduct: Cheating, and the appropriate action should be taken.
Placing the deck in card sleeves (if unsleeved) or replacing the damaged sleeves (if sleeved)
usually solves the problem. Marked cards or sleeves should be replaced as soon as possible,
without disrupting game play.

Examples of Marked Cards: Major include:
 All of the Basic Pokémon in a player’s deck are parallel holo, causing a slight bend down
the center of the card. This creates a pattern which allows the player to identify Basic
Pokémon when the cards are face-down, at rest.
 A card in the player’s deck was damaged, and has created a visible wear mark on the
back of the sleeve along the damaged area, allowing the card to easily be identified
while face-down.
The sleeves on all of the Special Energy cards in a player’s deck are slightly longer than
the rest of the sleeve
s.
Recommended Starting Penalty:
Tier 1: Multi-Prize Card
Tier 2: Game Loss

For both players, it was determined there was an unintentional defined pattern to the markings.

In Martin's case, all Pokemon Collector had a crease down the middle of the sleeve in the same position and all of the Cyrus' had several creases down the sleeves. The rest of the sleeves had normal wear and not significant. These cards were easily identifiable when laying out prizes or randomizing the deck. Since States is a Tier 2 Event, the appropriate Penalty is a Game Loss in Swiss which could have been carried over to a Match Loss in Top Cut. The HJ, PTO, and myself weighed every option and determined the a Match Loss/DQ would be too harsh due to feeling it was unintentional.

In Kyle's case, 10 out of 12 Energy Cards had factory flaws in the sleeves and was unintentional on the player's behalf. The flaws gave a significant advantage, however, the determination as was with Martin's, was to go with a similar penalty.

The HJ and I had no knowledge they two players were playing each other in Top Cut until after the fact. Additionally, both sleeve scenario's were reviewed by numerous Judges during Top Cut deck checks and the result was the same in defining the cards marked. Judges did this without prompt or knowledge what they were looking for other than an issue with the deck.

I firmly stand behind the HJ and PTO on their determination of only a GL in Match Play which at least gave the Player the chance of playing and not a Ruling determining your final position. This is something all Judges Learn from experience and correct when possible.

As for Judging in General, we are flawed, but do the best to our abilities to provide a forum for Players to Play. Judges are volunteers and do so for the love of the game and the desire to grow the brand. Deck Checking is a learned tool in the Judges box. Therefore some flaws can get through initial deck checks if a lesser experienced Judge, who may have vast knowledge of the game, has little experience deck checking. Judges must learn each area of the game just as players much learn each area of a deck. A Judge has much to cover to become elite and also much to handle when the time comes. I stand behind my Judges and the decisions made. A Player always has the right to appeal to the HJ if they feel they are receiving a Penalty unfairly. Also, Player ALWAYS have the right to contact P!P if they deem necessary.

To the community in large, be aware that PTOs, TOs, Judges, Runners, and CPU Staff are there for the event and also because they enjoy providing a Forum for everyone in this community to gather. Without Staff there would be no Events, and without Players there would be no reason for Staff. We need each other and lashing out at one side or the other is just unhealthy.

Personal note: If I have, in your opinion, unjustifiably taken away something from anyone in this community, I sincerely apologize. My wife recently reminded me why I started getting into Pokemon, for my Family. Who knew over 10 years my family would extend globally. At OK States this year, I tried to make things as light and Fun as possible fro all involved. It was a Great Event in all and I can't wait for next Year!! Thanks to the Staff for your time and dedication to this Game! Thanks to Roy for providing a Great Venue as always. Thanks to the Players for bringing your best and putting it on the line, there were some amazing matches!! And Special Thanks to my Wife for reminding me to have FUN and be FAIR! She let's me be a kid and allows me to enjoy my Hobby!

Fish
 
You really don't owe this thread any sort of explanation Fish. I was really offended by the way the DR took me aside and presented this to me. I was well aware any participation you had in this strictly had to do with your position and nothing more.
 
Top 8!! My first States!!

Props: to old man for yet another great premier event!
to my T16 opponent for figuring out I played 30 cards in 1 turn!!
to all the players who had FUN at this event!!

Next year I WIN!!!!! AAAAAAAAHHHHHH HAAAAHAHHAHAHAHA!!!!!
 
I am slightly amazed that over 100 posts failed to mention the abomination that was seniors.

My son was repaired 5 times in 3 rounds evidently. Everyone was repaired round one, and etc...

In round three I gather, he actually WON his game turned in his slip, but the game slip did not match the computer. Congrats Nate, you just won round three with Luxchomp, but it didn't count, now please go play your worst matchup, Machamp. Yes, the game was over, done, but it didn't count. Go play Machamp.

"Dad, I'm never playing Pokemon again."

I don't know what to think...

He also says judges were super jerks, and I believe it.

He turned in a decklist from SteveP program. There was an extra prize if you did. SteveP program was messed up! It reported 60 cards. Three of us counted the list, three times, there was only 59 cards. We added a fourth Poketurn, scratched through it and changed 3 Poketurns to 4.

Ooooo, but.... there is a pencil mark on the list, no prize ticket for you!

What a load!

Deck checkers wouldnt let my wife play because 2 cards were 'marked'. She has played exactly twice this year, way to catch that cheater Pokemom with the horrible Kingdra list guys!

After we turned in lists, and were sitting 20ft from the deck check line, talking, waiting patiently, some guy with a judge shirt on came over to tell us to move. I am the most considerate person on the planet, we were in nobodys way, this was the most obvious "I'm a judge, do what I say, because I'm a failure at life and I get off on bossing kids around weekends" I have ever seen.

I have seen it constantly though in the five years I've been playing. Big man is now a judge, boss baby boss!

I was not there, but I tend to believe, as my sons game was over, he was barked at by Jeremy:

"Get out or I will give you a game loss next round, clear the area!"

Yeah, you are Big Mans at Pokemons, Judges. It's sooooo cool its the one place you 'win' and can demand respect. Way to go loser.

This is tough to write. Especially in this thread. My family has had sooo much fun playing in Oklahoma the last four years or so. I REALLY appreciate Dr. Dave explaining how Nate's round three win didn't count. It sucks, I've never heard of anything like that happening, but I kind of understand how it happened, thanks Dr.

I especially don't mean this to reflect badly on Old Man's tournament. I played seven games in masters, called for judge three times, and they responded perfectly every time.

Maybe I have inappropriately chosen to respond on this thread, but Power Hungry, ooooo Goody-I'm-Important-This-Weekend judges are bad for the game.

Disregard my post gym, you are good at that. No problem here, it's been so great playing with you all.

Ed
 
Ed, if you know who the Judges were, or have a description, please PM me. I really want to know as I was the Lead for Masters. Not discrediting the Deck Check with the sleeves, but we had sleeves to give to players provided by old man and were offered for resleeve situations. If this didn't occur, then it will be corrected internally.

Shoot me a PM!

Fish
 
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