Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Pokemon or Yu-gi-oh???

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From what I have seen, the English version of Pokemon beats YGO. Why? Pokemon, as stated, is more light hearted and less complex. This is why the "Americanized" version is much less painful to watch. Yes, Team Rocket, especially Jessie, has gotten so stupid it hurts (well, most episodes). James was never the brightest bulb, and given some comments they have him slip in, almost seems smarter. Meowth bounces back and fourth: originally, his justifications for why they were after certain Pokemon weren't that bad... but a lot of them are. Still, in the long run, the show doesn't change as much.

Compare this to YGO. Poor YGO. It was a series targeted towards an older audience, and from a country where such an audience would naturally be allowed to view more (which I will not comment on as being better or worse). This means its original content is far beyond what would normally be allowed for general consumption. So right there, we see the episodes getting hacked into itty-bitty pieces. Also, without the actual first season airing, although its quality is dubious according to the people I have talked with, it still went quite ways in defining the characters. If you haven't yet, try to catch the Shonen Jump Graphic Novels; from what I have heard and read myself, they are great translations. Back to business though. YGO has been so turned into an ugly, hollow shell of itself. To see how, check out the recent Uncut DVDs, and this site: http://yugioh.dbzoa.net/index.html

So it comes down to watching a highschool butcher a perfomance of MacBeth vs a perfomance of WillyWonka.
 
From what you're saying, I gather it's the difference between the painful and the dreadful. I'd take painful any day of the week, IMO.
 
Thing is, YGO is really aimed at a niche market in terms of the themes it uses. Now, in America, you don't get a lot of people into that stuff, because it's a cultural mandate to make everyone only like popular things, and worse, the fun stuff has to be changed and/or glossed over to make it marketable in America.

I'm just saying, even with all that 4Kids is doing to it, it's holding up better than some shows I've seen get this treatment. Pokémon just takes the old standby of "monster of the week" (usually used in superhero/-ine type shows) and turns it into "Pokémon of the day" without any real form of overall plot aside from the whole "let's go get the badges!" schtick.
 
Marril said:
Thing is, YGO is really aimed at a niche market in terms of the themes it uses. Now, in America, you don't get a lot of people into that stuff, because it's a cultural mandate to make everyone only like popular things, and worse, the fun stuff has to be changed and/or glossed over to make it marketable in America.
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Nice attempt at distracting from the real topic. Indeed, there are a lot of aspects of YGO that get changed because of the difference in culture... and isn't it ironic that you dislike a culture for disliking another culture? The stuff you define as fun is most offensive to others. Yes, I am one of the "kooks" who are glad that several YGO cards have been censored. Not all of them, but many of them.

You do realize that Pokemon has also seen its share of censorship: again, some of it annoying, other parts of it somewhat welcome. Actually, with Pokemon, I am not sure how much of it has been welcome...

Marril said:
I'm just saying, even with all that 4Kids is doing to it, it's holding up better than some shows I've seen get this treatment. Pokémon just takes the old standby of "monster of the week" (usually used in superhero/-ine type shows) and turns it into "Pokémon of the day" without any real form of overall plot aside from the whole "let's go get the badges!" schtick.
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Please note, despite the quote use, the following addresses some previous posts content and some new content.

Where as I am saying the opposite: YGO has been butchered almost completely beyond repair. I still watch, but like many serial shows, it's because I hate leaving things "unfinished". Pokemon has suffered much less, and most of the dislike comes from not liking the content of the show to begin with. The irony is that YGO has become as hackneyed as Pokemon: with seemingly two or three episodes of exception each season, it's "Yugi must prevent something awful from happening by winning a tournament or duel." The first Duel Monsters story arc, Duelist Kingdom, Yugi is dueling to rescue his Grandfather's soul. After a few differing episodes, the Battle City Episodes have Yugi struggling to beat Marik and aquire the "Egyptian god cards" in order to save the world. Now he has to defeat the "forces of evil" to save the world. Yup. Never seen that in a cartoon before. Character development in both series is low; in both cases, more is seen in the Japanese episodes (although YGO has more than Pokemon there, to my understanding). Neither represent their respective TCGs accurately. For Pokemon, this is more forgivable. Why? The cartoon is supposed to ape the video game world, and of course, the video games are less than completely immersive: they use a simple videogame RPGish interface. In YGO, the TCG came after the manga and anime, so naturally, it won't match up perfect. However, Duel Monsters was a McGuffin, a plot device. It took some aspects of pre-existing TCGs and added a few twists. Demand for the real game was high, so it was released... by Bandai. Things weren't doing so well, and eventually it was redesigned and relaunched by Konami. Konami was less faithful to the source material, because the source material was too fanciful. Now, some progress has been made: the game in later seasons is much closer to the real thing than the early episodes had it. Its still quite a ways off though. First you have the "obvious": Life-Points are half the real starting value. As you'd expect from playing Pokemon with just three prizes, this drastically alters strategy. Less obvious is that cards have rarities that Konami only dreams it could get away with: most filler monsters from the sets we see exist, at least in part, because in the source material most of the commonly played cards here aren't so common there. Now realize that cards still are often radically different from their real life counter parts, and tend to debut in the manga. Finally, the play style is just completely backwards. Decks are often insane hodgepodges. Yugi himself has single copies of sevearl Dark Magician supporting cards, the Magnet Warrior Trio, Gaia the Fierce Knight and related cards, and then whatever helps the plot along. Mai has uses a "Grrl Power!" deck composed of several female monsters... some in related "clumps", like Harpies or Amazons.... and others that only match by being female (Dunames).
 
I don't think I can bear to watch either of the shows anymore...with the same repetative phrases such as "my move!" and "Team Rocket!"(shock when they see them again) It kinda gets on my nerves...YGO storyline is kinda interesting, but I can't stand how they talk. Maybe I should watch it without sound. Pokemon occasionally have interesting battles with characters like lance.
 
Otaku: Paragraphs please. It's not very easy to read one huge, long block of text. That said, what I define as "fun stuff" is merely what gives YGO its flavour. It's not all that offensive, really it's not all that much worse than when Atem played the Seal he got from Raphael and went insane for a short time.

Aside from that, you didn't really say anything contrary to what I've been saying. You just aren't seeing that I'm not saying YGO is a good show. It's not. All I'm saying is that it's better than Pokémon.
 
Marril said:
Otaku: Paragraphs please. It's not very easy to read one huge, long block of text. That said, what I define as "fun stuff" is merely what gives YGO its flavour. It's not all that offensive, really it's not all that much worse than when Atem played the Seal he got from Raphael and went insane for a short time.

Aside from that, you didn't really say anything contrary to what I've been saying. You just aren't seeing that I'm not saying YGO is a good show. It's not. All I'm saying is that it's better than Pokémon.
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I count three paragraphs myself... but I will assume you refer to the third one. Indeed, I really need to format that better. And you are correct-one large block of text is harder to read. Somehow, I don't believe that you brought that up because you were that concerned with legibility.

Different things offend different people. Though "offend" may not be the correct word. It's a bit lengthy to get into, and would risk steering this off topic, so I will just stick with "offend".

Actually, events like Atem playing the Seal are usually the highlight of the show for me. Those aren't the problem.

You are right... I am not saying anything too different from you... except that the "Americanized" YGO is worse than the "Americanized" Pokemon. I guess that was one of those things that were too obscure in my large, blocky, paragraph.

I will reiterate my stance: when dealing with the original Japanese versions of the shows, Yu-Gi-Oh almost wins hands down. I say almost because when you see them true to form, you may not feel comparing them is fair-sort of like comparing Trigun to Cowboys of Moomesa. In the "Americanized" versions though, Pokemon is made to wear "nice" clothes while YGO is put in a straigh jacket and given a sedative. After the butchering, Pokemon is better. they are more or less the same level on the final product... but YGO has obviously suffered more. That directly impacts my enjoyment of the show. With Pokemon, I am not having to ask myself "what got cut this episode". With YGO, I am constatly asking myself these things.

And yes, I know both have had siginificant cuts. I don't think any entire YGO epidsodes have actually been cut (on multiple occasions two episodes have been hybridized into just one), where as we have had three to five episodes of Pokemon that were never aired or only aired after heavy edits. Still, even factoring that in, YGO still possesses the greater deficit.
 
Otaku said:
I count three paragraphs myself... but I will assume you refer to the third one. Indeed, I really need to format that better. And you are correct-one large block of text is harder to read. Somehow, I don't believe that you brought that up because you were that concerned with legibility.
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Actually, I did. I just don't seem to read huge, large blocks very well. After a while it just becomes an eyestrain on me.
 
PenguinMaster said:
1) Everything the characters say is like a declaration. They shout every single action they do! Calm down...
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PIKACHU! THUNDERSHOCK! NOW!

OKAY! CHIKORITA! I CHOOSE YOU!

OH NO! BLAZIKEN!

Shouting happens in Pokemon just as much when they're battling. -.-;

2) I don't see why they take three episodes to finish a single duel. If you miss one episode, you're totally lost
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Some people do prefer a continuous plot over an episodic style like Pokemon's, and the continuous events style is very characteristic of Anime as a whole.

3) The plot is a joke. They walk around battling people, Yugi turns into an egyptian guy, send some souls to the shadow realm while we're at it... So what? Most of the time I don't know what they're trying to accomplish.
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You have to watch the show from the start to understand the plot fully. Pokemon's plot is haphazard and downright pathetic when you get down to it - a group of loser kids want their little critters to beat the stuffing out of a bunch of other little critters, so they can get badges. Whoop. At least Yugi is battling for something other than little metal pins.

4) It's a walking advertisment for the TCG. The show has no background other than there were egyption guys that played an evil game. Woot. I don't want to see them do something that I can spend ten dollars on and do myself.
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The show came before the card game. If anything, the card game is a mobile advertisement for the anime.

That, and the show has tons of background and plot, you just choose to ignore it. The show also has a great dramatic flair, and is wonderfully written and planned out (the original Japanese version, that is; screw the horrific excuse that we got here in the US).
 
Ok Guys , there is ONE big thing you are missing. There are 2 different types of Animation. There is "Anime" and there is "Cartoons". In my oppinion Pokemon goes in the Cartoon section and Yu-Gi-Oh Falls into the Anime Category.Lets Trace the Shows back to the newest seasons that are out in Amer. But get the Episodes in Japanese.

Recomended Age:

Yu-Gi-Oh!- Yu-Gi-Oh was mainly designed for teh attention of the older crowd. It was aimed for ages of 12-18 in japanese.

Pokemon- Pokemon is desgined for Ages 6-15 in Japansese.

Content:

Yu-Gi-Oh- In japenese Yu-Gi-Oh has some language and is a little more violent.

Pokemon- I japanese Pokemon is pretty much teh same a few different scences are cut , but pretty much no language no violence.

I only named 2 different things but That is pretty much like it is. Dont get me Wrong the pokemon TCG Kicks the Crap outta the Yu-Gi-Oh TCG , But Anime Hell no. Yu-Gi-Oh is an awsome Anime.
 
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Squirtle said:
Ok Guys , there is ONE big thing you are missing. There are 2 different types of Animation. There is "Anime" and there is "Cartoons". In my oppinion Pokemon goes in the Cartoon section and Yu-Gi-Oh Falls into the Anime Category.Lets Trace the Shows back to the newest seasons that are out in Amer. But get the Episodes in Japanese.

Recomended Age:

Yu-Gi-Oh!- Yu-Gi-Oh was mainly designed for teh attention of the older crowd. It was aimed for ages of 12-18 in japanese.

Pokemon- Pokemon is desgined for Ages 6-15 in Japansese.

Content:

Yu-Gi-Oh- In japenese Yu-Gi-Oh has some language and is a little more violent.

Pokemon- I japanese Pokemon is pretty much teh same a few different scences are cut , but pretty much no language no violence.

I only named 2 different things but That is pretty much like it is. Dont get me Wrong the pokemon TCG Kicks the Crap outta the Yu-Gi-Oh TCG , But Anime Hell no. Yu-Gi-Oh is an awsome Anime.
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Okay, first, the differentiation between "anime" and "cartoon" is pretty varied. Some classify all cartoons set at a maturity level (not just sex and violence, but in terms of complicated plot and social issues) as "anime", but thats pretty rare. Most classify all Japanese cartoons of said maturity level as anime. I think that literal definitions would mean all Japanese animation, or at least a much wider variety of it would classify as anime: its more style than story based (e.g. both Pokemon and YGO animation would be anime).

Now, you do pretty good until you hit YGO Content. I finally picked up the Uncut DVDs (if you are a YGO fan, you will want them). Its not just missing violence and/or profanity; the actual storylineis butchered in the American version. I was so shocked; Jounochi (Joey) isn't an idiot, Anzu (Tea) is sweet and supportive while still being honest, instead of alternating between belittling and naive, and Honda (Tristan) actually gets to make the occasional insight! All the their VAs are better too (note: the main characters, not every VA). And all this was just in the first 6 Episodes.

Finally, and this is the most important:

The discussion is over which "cartoon" is better, so it's "American" Pokemon VS "American" Yu-Gi-Oh.

Thanks. ;)
 
There are two main points to be said...

1) Animé is simply animation from Japan. This encompasses all the genres and forms that it takes, from Hamtaro to Gundam to FMA to anything else from there. It's not a genre in itself, it's more of a "super-genre" like the word "cartoon" is. Animé is, well, the Japanese word for cartoon, in a nutshell.

2) Even just comparing their dubs, YGO comes out way ahead of Pokémon. 4Kids is a group of idiots, to be sure—like I've said before, rent a Pokémon movie DVD and listen to the audio commentary, it speaks for itself—but though Pokémon doesn't get hit as hard as YGO, it's still true that the Pokémon dub has all the intelligence of a brick behind its plot-writing. I've read better fanfics than the cheap, overly-recycled plots. At least YGO gets to have new main villains from plot arc to plot arc (note: Teams Aqua and Magma are secondary villains, Jessie and James are the primary ones).
 
Maybe a better way to judge is by seeing how well each achieves their goal? I see Pokémon as almost a sitcom, and YGO as a drama (or it wants to be one...).

So, I can honestly say that Pokémon has literally made me laugh out loud on occasions, and it at least at the level of funny as newpapers' comics pages. So, with that in mind, I say Pokémon achieves its goal pretty well and consistantly.

As for YGO, as a drama, it has yet to evoke any real emotional bind between the story or characters and me, the viewer. Not once has the gravity of a situation set in for me. The show just can't effectively communicate the intesity that it implies. In that regard, YGO simply does not achieve its goal as a drama.

With these considerations, I place the Pokémon animé above YGO.
 
Comparing Pokémon to the average TV sitcom is an auto-lose. Those shows, well, suck hard. Cheap laughs just stop being funny after the zillionth time.
 
Marril said:
Comparing Pokémon to the average TV sitcom is an auto-lose. Those shows, well, suck hard. Cheap laughs just stop being funny after the zillionth time.
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The main point of Psycho Lugia X's post was that Pokemon is geared towards being a simple, enjoyable show that has a good deal of action and humor to it. Yu-Gi-Oh (again, talking about 4kids made for TV dub) is the same way, only more forced since it is not supposed to be that way. What tastes better? A good hot dog or a gourmet meal that has been combined and blended into mush? Unless you have a particular aversion to Pokemon, its hard to believe you would enjoy that which was once great and is now turned into garbage.
 
I'll admit that I have a rather severe... dislike of the animé because it's a huge steaming pile, but my point was that a bad comparison can basically be the death sentence of an argument for something.
 
Wait--my comparison was invalid? How so? Logically the best way to judge something is by seeing how well it achieves its particular goal isn't it? That way you can make a universal test for anything whose quality you want to assess.

To clarify, however, I suppose I should have labeled Pokémon an adventure/sitcom and YGO a...drama.

Fair?

[Edit--sorry for the dreadful typo!!]
 
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If you're referring to what I said about comparing things to sitcoms, that was just a hyperbole.

Anyways, IMO, an attemped plot > no plot to begin with.
 
Marril said:
If you're referring to what I said about comparing things to sitcoms, that was just a hyperbole.

Anyways, IMO, an attemped plot > no plot to begin with.
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How does that matter here? See, I think I finally get the problem. You hate the Pokemon cartoon. Therefore, the Yu-Gi-Oh cartoon gets an "auto-win" in your book. Therefore, debating this with you further is pointless-because you don't like the show, it has no plot (instead of a simplistic one).
 
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