Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Post-Release SSBB Discussion [SPOILERS]

Top Tier;

Olimar
Wolf
Toon Link
Marth
Zelda

High Tier

Ike
Fox
Pokemon Trainer
Ice Climbers
Pikachu
Yoshi
Mr Game and Watch
Snake
Zero Suit Samus
Wario

Mid Tier

Meta Knight
King Dedede
Diddy Kong
Ganondorf
Kirby
Bowser
Sonic
Pit
Captain Falcon
Lucario
Ness
Lucas
Samus


Low Tier

Peach
Falco
Link
Shiek
Mario

Bottom tier

Luigi
Jigglypuff
Donkey Kong


This is based off competition I have seen, basically you dont need to have the highest tier to win or be competitive, the reason so many in the Mid Tier range is because most of those chars either lack the ability to time anything right with button delay, or they are some of the best fighters but lack any smash abilities you KO anyone until they get 150% or more usually. Ike I dont know about, you need no button lag to make use of him, he could technically be Top tier, but he could also be mid tier as well.
 
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Bullet said:
Top Tier;

Olimar
Wolf
Toon Link
Marth
Zelda

High Tier

Ike
Fox
Pokemon Trainer
Ice Climbers
Pikachu
Mr Game and Watch
Snake
Zero Suit Samus
Wario

Mid Tier

Meta Knight
King Dedede
Diddy Kong
Ganondorf
Kirby
Bowser
Sonic
Pit
Captain Falcon
Lucario
Ness
Lucas
Samus


Low Tier

Peach
Falco
Link
Shiek
Mario

Bottom tier

Luigi
Jigglypuff
Donkey Kong


This is based off competition I have seen, basically you dont need to have the highest tier to win or be competitive, the reason so many in the Mid Tier range is because most of those chars either lack the ability to time anything right with button delay, or they are some of the best fighters but lack any smash abilities you KO anyone until they get 150% or more usually. Ike I dont know about, you need no button lag to make use of him, he could technically be Top tier, but he could also be mid tier as well.
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No Yoshi? I think this whole Tier thing is for losers. Anyway, this list looks wrong.
 
I forgot about Yoshi, but the way Tiers work is dependent on alot of factors.

How easy it is to master

How much one char is played

what kind of balance the char has

priorirty of attacks over another char

attacks a char has and how long it takes to kill someone


While you can be competitive and win matches with the low and bottom tier characters, its not often but 1 out of 100 chances you going to see any of them used.

Basically what you see on my list of Top tier is mostly characters thats easy to pickup and just win without having much skill to put to use with the exception of Olimar, truly I could probably put Mr Game and Watch up there as well, Olimar and GAW can KO someone at 0%.

Tier list purpose is basically if you want to be competitive and use a char that actually has something, then you have to choose out of a list of Top, High, and mid.

Yoshi I will add probably into the High Tier.

I am thinking about putting Link into the bottom tier, if anyone has ever tested out link, he blows really really bad in this game, I can make a case for most characters at least having something to work with, But Link dont have anything you can work with except his Down+A attack which you be lucky to even hit anyone with it anyway.

Another way to test out chars and determine the tier, do 100 man melee.
 
Bullet said:
I forgot about Yoshi, but the way Tiers work is dependent on alot of factors.

How easy it is to master

How much one char is played

what kind of balance the char has

priorirty of attacks over another char

attacks a char has and how long it takes to kill someone


While you can be competitive and win matches with the low and bottom tier characters, its not often but 1 out of 100 chances you going to see any of them used.

Basically what you see on my list of Top tier is mostly characters thats easy to pickup and just win without having much skill to put to use with the exception of Olimar, truly I could probably put Mr Game and Watch up there as well, Olimar and GAW can KO someone at 0%.

Tier list purpose is basically if you want to be competitive and use a char that actually has something, then you have to choose out of a list of Top, High, and mid.

Yoshi I will add probably into the High Tier.

I am thinking about putting Link into the bottom tier, if anyone has ever tested out link, he blows really really bad in this game, I can make a case for most characters at least having something to work with, But Link dont have anything you can work with except his Down+A attack which you be lucky to even hit anyone with it anyway.

Another way to test out chars and determine the tier, do 100 man melee.
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Okay, what you just said about Link is not right. You have to see my brother play his Link. Link does not suck. He is one of the best sword players in the game and the most balance.
 
The only thing that makes Link any useful is bomb spamming, hes total garbage in this game because none of his attack have an lick of knockback, meaning it takes incredible damage to KO anyone without charging a full smash up and unleashing it, now of course this is on Wifi, against a CPU and everything else I am sure you can be good with Link or any char for that matter because the CPU lets you do anything.
 
Luigi can not possibly be bottom tier. Even if not top or high tier, the lowest he could possibly go is mid tier. I played against all of the top tier characters you listed at a club yesterday and kept winning. They would try to gang up on me because I kept winning, and I still won. One game I played was me as Luigi and three Snakes as the others.
 
depends on the competition and skill level to, bad players playing high tier characters will lose to descent players with low tier characters.
 
Kyfogre22 said:
It's his opinion.
There won't be any "official" tier lists for months, and those ones will be wrong. It takes at least a couple of years of substantial tournament time before a tier list that's any accurate will come out. The metagame is hardly developed at this point and quite frankly nobody knows anything. Marth was thought of as crap for a long time.
Having said that, I highly doubt Pit will be that high up. He's somewhat lacking in KO moves and is easily outprioritized for a character with a sword. He's also kind of light and suffers from predictable recovery syndrome.
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Yes, there is no way to predict the actual tier list before any major tournaments, but my first thoughts on the game are in that list.

As for Pit, the KO moves he has are good enough, as his damage racking and speed are amazing. He's somewhat light, that's a given. As for his save, he jumps so many times he only needs to use it when he fights off stage, when it wouldn't make much of a difference.

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

Bullet said:
the way Tiers work is dependent on alot of factors.

How easy it is to master No.

How much one char is played No.
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In Melee, Falco/Fox was pretty hard to master, in fact, without the online descriptions I doubt many people would have done it. They were probably the hardest to master. Also, determining the tiers has nothing to do with how much they are played. Everyone and their grandma can use Ganondorf, that doesn't make him tier one, because he's still a bad character.
 
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Depends on what is determined as major tournaments, because I seeing ladders contain alot of games being played world wide and hardly much difference in that then whats going to be going on at some tournament out in California, it seems Smash bros pros is all determined by what goes on in 1 state, it happened with melee, and its happening with brawl.

Falco/Fox wasnt hard to master in melee, it was the easiest characters to master, albeit its little harder to do so in brawl, but in Melee NO WAY

And how much a char played does determine a tier some what, why? because if they using it, then they are either winning with it or its easy to learn.

I see alot of people use Wolf, why? because they win with it, even though the only strat they got is Spam laser, then Forward+A, its winning them games.
 
There is no way Fox and Falco are easy to master. I am a Fox player from melee and I still could not do everything every other Fox player could even after a year and a half of practice.
 
But that doesn't put them at a high tier, ease of use doesn't automatically put anyone at high tier, or even mid. This isn't about popularity contests either, just because a lot of people use it, doesn't mean an equally skilled player who knows how to counter your strategies won't win. Just because wolf is dominating wifi doesn't mean he's the best, only the people the wolf player is facing are so pisspoor that they don't know how to get around it.
 
Heres the problems, theirs no way around it usually.

people tell others learn to get around the constant laser spam, but its almost impossible, why? because Wolfs laser interrupts every god given thing a character attempts to do, sure you could shield, roll your way and dodge you way to him, Oh WAIT!!! SMASH, thats right he will Forward-A you from about 10 feet away.

Their is characters that counter him, but they are rarely used, and whats the chances you going to find Zelda vs Wolf? Peach vs wolf? platforms only go so far when you have wolfs Up smash, thats why Wolf players are winning so much. Its like playing yugioh all over again where if you dont run the same cookie crap everyone else does, you simply dont make it to the top 4-8 of any tournament.
 
Wait? Platforms? There are people who play on stages other than Final Destination?

Seriously though, people basing tiers off of ease of learning and frequency of use have no business ever compiling a tier list. Ease of learning is just plain stupid. Tier lists aren't meant to reflect who's going to be the strongest to just pick up and play—they're meant to reflect who's the best, period. Frequency of use is silly, as well. That's a metagame factor more than anything else, especially when you get situations like a mid-tier character countering a top-tier character.

PS, the wording is "there are." Saying "their is" is such a grammatical atrocity that it should incur a scourging.
 
Marril said:
Wait? Platforms? There are people who play on stages other than Final Destination?

Seriously though, people basing tiers off of ease of learning and frequency of use have no business ever compiling a tier list. Ease of learning is just plain stupid. Tier lists aren't meant to reflect who's going to be the strongest to just pick up and play—they're meant to reflect who's the best, period. Frequency of use is silly, as well. That's a metagame factor more than anything else, especially when you get situations like a mid-tier character countering a top-tier character.

PS, the wording is "there are." Saying "their is" is such a grammatical atrocity that it should incur a scourging.
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yeah usually smashville and battlefield is the only other 2 outside of FD.

Ease or learning and frquency of use dont make up the entire qualifications of a tier list, it factors in because like I said, if people is using certain characters alot, its because its easy to use, they are winning with it. But thats not true for Olimar, I hardly know many who play Olimar, but hes top tier because if you get a descent player, he will whoop you good most likely.

yes a mid tier character can counter a top tier character, but that dont automatically make that mid tier char a top tier, why? Because it lacks other things, as you notice on my list most of the mid tier characters you see also happen to be either really slow or lack a half descent smash attack that can get a KO early. Captain Falcons problems is not good smash attacks, he lacks priority of attack against most characters everyone is playing, plus hes almost impossible to master in Wifi due to button delay and you pretty much need real time control to actually time anything he does. Same goes for Ike as to why hes not in High tier either, aside from him being slow, button delay slows him down even more, while he has average priority of attacks, with the delay its hard to do much with him either.

I know more whats going on because of Smashbrawlrankings.com where I compete on the ladder. I aint serious about the ladder right now until about 4-5 months down, but I get an idea whats going on.

Truly the Tier list is probably going to change a couple or more times each year if not more. But thats the tier list as best I can describe, and its not perfect because some arguments can be made to put high tier into the top tier category.
 
Oh please.
None of you know anything.
I'll ignore the fact many of you are probably not excellent smash players and have only witnessed a very narrow paradigm of the people who have played the game. More importantly is that the game has only been out a couple of months and none of the characters have truly been broken in. It's far too early to predict anything.
 
Gah, this is utter crud. Now that my internet works again, my wifi won't connect.
"Disconnected from network during transmission. Error Code: 61020"
 
Bullet said:
blah blah blah
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Seriously. Not only should you listen to Kyfogre in that a Brawl tier list now is pointless, you should learn what's meant by a tier list. Ease of use has nothing to do with how good a character is when used properly.

I also dispute Kyfogre's claim that I don't know anything. While it's true I'm not a high-end Smash player, I am familiar with the principles behind this, at least well enough to spot when people are so full of it that it's squirting out their ears.
 
tires don exits!

but really, as has been said countless times thus far, it's way too early to build an accurate tier list. there's really way too many characters, way too many possibilities for that.

i will say that toon link is almost guaranteed top tier though. he's got so many tricks up his sleeve, and can 0death so many characters. he's really balanced in terms of strength, speed and recovery, and also has great projectiles.

i'm still intent on maining Wario though, the way you can manipulate his DI makes for a very interesting and unpredictable play.
 
Absolution said:
tires don exits!

but really, as has been said countless times thus far, it's way too early to build an accurate tier list. there's really way too many characters, way too many possibilities for that.

i will say that toon link is almost guaranteed top tier though. he's got so many tricks up his sleeve, and can 0death so many characters. he's really balanced in terms of strength, speed and recovery, and also has great projectiles.

i'm still intent on maining Wario though, the way you can manipulate his DI makes for a very interesting and unpredictable play.
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Lies D< Tires do exist! but in all seriousesness, tiers are stupid, I didn't even know about them until maybe my last year of playing melee

Side note: My wi-fi is working fine now :cool:
 
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