Proto-Arceus

[waynegg]

[gal=49326] ArceusLvX [/gal]

Arceus has captivated many within the Pokemon community since its art was revealed publicly for the first time when the Diamond and Pearl expansions were about to be released. I know of a few who have been on pins and needles wanting to build a deck around it for the last two years. The Arceus Rule has minds racing to new ways to abuse the mechanic.

As a result, I find it only fitting to present, before Cities, a concept deck which looks to have good match-ups on paper so that some can see the new Alpha Pokemon's potential strategies and strengths from a slightly different angle and in a whole new light.


Deck Name: Proto-Arceus
Author: Wayne Eggert (waynegg)
Date:11/02/2009
Format: 2009-2010 Modified, DP-PA
Latest Set: Platinum Arceus

Deck List
​

Pokemon (22)
2 Arceus Lv. X
1 Arceus Lv. X
2 Arceus Dark
2 Arceus Fire
1 Arceus Colorless
1 Arceus Psychic
1 Ampharos
1 Flaaffy
1 Mareep
2 Claydol
2 Baltoy
2 Unown G
2 Rotom

Trainers (23)
3 Bebe's Search
3 Roseanne's Research
3 Felicity's Drawing
2 Beginning Door
2 Ultimate Zone
2 Lake Boundary
2 Rare Candy
2 Department Store Girl
2 Bench Shield
2 Lucky Egg
1 Luxury Ball
1 Looker's Investigation

Energy (15)
3 Darkness
3 Dark
3 Lightning
4 Fire
2 Psychic

Strategy
​

Quite simply, tech and conquer.

As I see it decks built around Arceus are an experiment with techs being the 100% focus of the strategy to win. Instead of fighting this built in synergy, you should embrace it when building and running the deck. Going against that flow just isn't practical when it can merge together so smoothly when all the parts come together.

First, you have the Luxury of building your own custom Pokemon with Arceus. Next you get to pick the type you want it to be and the attack you want it to have. Lastly, you decide how to tie it all together to become the assassin you are hoping for. This has never been possible before. If you don't understand let me explain a little.

You need to take note very early on to your opponent's main weaknesses and then exploit the weakness by Leveling your corresponding Arceus with the Omniscient Lv. X. This will make your Leveled Up attacking Pokemon the type your opponent is weak to while protecting you from weakness at all. I see the dark Arceus being most favored for this task as there is so much Gengar in my area it's ridiculous, while you may have Flygon prevalence so you would beef up your colorless line and so on with other meta. Then it becomes a simple task of using whatever attack it best suited from all the attacks any of your Arceus have.

This deck has the capabilities of being great, but paper match-ups and Redshark only go so far. It can't truly be proven and fully tested until it is out there in the trenches.

The List




Pokemon
​

[gal=49326] ArceusLvX [/gal]

Arceus Lv. X
Omniscient is what makes this custom Pokemon extravaganza possible. You level the type you want your attacker to be (80%+ of the time that will be the dark type) and then use the attack of any Arceus in play. This versatility allows you to counter any deck when played right as you will be able to exploit weaknesses in ways you have only dreamed of before. The range of this card can also create difficult decisions for the Opponent to consider throughout the game. It is definitely a game changing Pokemon, but to what degree is the question!
[gal=49157] ArceusLvX [/gal]

Arceus Lv. X
This Arceus fills the need for a secondary attacker that doesn't rely on weakness to go off. You still want this guy on your bench and use the attack via your attacker with the Omniscient Level Up in most occasions. Even if you are forced to bring it active and attack, you can easily move it back out of harm's way the next turn with the single Energy retreat cost all the Arceus share.[gal=49203] ArceusDark [/gal]

Arceus Dark
This guy's attack is great for the early game, after you have gotten everything set up, and your Rotom has bitten the dust. For just 2 energy Prize Count can dish out 60+ damage when behind. With the Arceus Weakness Trick that Omnicient brings to the table, this could allow you to rally back in no time!

[gal=49228] ArceusFire [/gal]

Arceus Fire
Bright Flame gives you an attack that OHKO's the Gengars you are bound to face with the Advent of Evil that is Gengar Lv. X. If you are facing a Grass or Metal Deck you may want to Level this one to be your attacker. Three energy for 80 isn't bad, especially when considering how this deck works on exploiting your Opponent's Weaknesses

[gal=49325] ArceusColorless [/gal]

Arceus Colorless
Most Arceus decks have the other colorless version in the deck for Energy acceleration. That's not even possible with this build which lets you concentrate on doing what you are supposed to be doing- attacking and taking prizes instead of making sure you have 6 different colors of Arceus in play. This guy was added in during the final hour as a Flygon counter which was nearly overlooked. I chose the Promo over the set because when you have to use the attack, at least the Energy can find its way back from the Discard Pile. The 10 additional HP are nice as well. This one would be an excellent candidate to Level Up with the Psychic Bolt Lv. X to reduce the retreat cost and give yourself an 'in a pinch' colorless attacker.

[gal=49164] ArceusPsychic [/gal]

Arceus Psychic
A tech you will find yourself using on occasions. With all the Psychic weak Pokemon in the meta it would have been a real oversight if one of these weren't in the deck to Level Up with. Many Nidoqueen techs, Gardevoir/Gallade, Mewtwo before they can Level Up, and Pixies will fall to the wayside when you have this ammo in your deck!


Ampharos
This Pokemon shuts off the Poke Powers on all of your Opponents Pokemon that has any damage counters on it. In my opinion, Damage bind is the most useful Poke Body in the history of the Pokemon TCG. With any luck, you can borrow the effect of your opponent's Broken Time-Space to get here quickly.


Flaaffy
The transition to Ampharos. When you aren't facing Nidoqueen, its Spark can help you to exploit its evolution's Body.


Mareep
Minor Errand-Running helps you build needed energy early, and with 10HP more than the alternative the Platinum version the obvious choice.


Claydol
Still the absolute best deck cycling tech ever. It's so good, I don't know anyone who refers to it as a tech anymore. It will only be fitting for Black arm-bands to be given out in the first League Kit next year to mark the passing of this super-tech's passing when it is finally retired.


Baltoy
Either version is fine since they both get you to Claydol. The Great Encounters card can provide you with a better start though, so unless you plan on teching in Miasma Valley pass on the purple pot.


Unown G
Protect your Active Basic when matching Machamp and your benched Powers when facing Gengar. This card is a must, so when you go making your variants, don't remove this card.


Rotom
Dual Trans plus Felicity's Drawing makes for a quick, happy set up. You can power up at least two, if not three, of your Pokemon before this sacrificial lamb is bar-b-qued!

Trainers
​

Bebe's Search
Get a needed Pokemon and make your hand smaller to maximize Cosmic Power's effectiveness


Roseanne's Research
With all the different Energy in this deck, it's a good thing we have a supporter like this. Search out the specific Basic Energy and the Basic Pokemon you need all at once!


Felicity's Drawing
Fuel your Rotom and draw four cards to speed up your deck. Still a great Draw option.

[gal=49245] BeginningDoor [/gal]

Beginning Door
This is where You get all your Arceus, Lv. X's and all. This cuts down on having to use Roseanne so much for Basic Pokemon which in turn makes running a four Energy Type deck even possible.

[gal=49238] UltimateZone [/gal]

Ultimate Zone
You need your Energy moved to another Arceus... well here ya go!


Lake Boundary
Take the Weakness exploitation to the extreme without the morning after side effects since Arceus Lv. X has none!



Rare Candy
It may be old, but I hope they never let this guy retire! This one card does so much for the game it really deserves its very own lengthy Feature Article.

[gal=49207] DepartmentStoreGirl [/gal]

Department Store Girl
Tools have always been, in my opinion, a marginal play as you have had to draw into them. Now that you can effectively search them out, you will be seeing a lot of this card.

[gal=49220] BenchShield [/gal]

Bench Shield
Amphytric without using up the Bench space on Manectric!

[gal=49174] LuckyEgg [/gal]

Lucky Egg
This will be best used early and attached to Rotom or another Pokemon you know is in danger of being knocked out the next turn. You should have a fairly empty hand early on in the game and it should max your draw. It will be a card of non issue toward the end so make sure to dump it early!


Luxury Ball
Luxury Ball is ever the essential. If there were awards for Pokemon cards, this one would have to be a front runner for Best New Staple of Year


Looker's Investigation
Any deck replenisher (Cynthia's Feelings, Team Galactics Wager, etc.) will work here. I just prefer to look at my Opponent's hand when I get the chance to.

Second String Options
​

Premiere Ball/Level Max
This could aid in Leveling up quicker and in recycling cards from your discard. I almost put Premiere Ball in my final build, but decided to try out Lucky Egg instead.


Palmer's Contribution/Night Maintenance
A more conservative play to put Pokemon and Energy back into your deck. Sometimes the best offense is a good defense after all. I am on the fence on how much it would be needed here.


Other Arceus Types
Your local meta may give rise to the need for other types. You have an absolute plethora to chose from as all 9 types are covered in this one set!


Honchkrow G
A good play to search out your Stadiums early on and to give yourself another decent starter. I found it to over complicate the deck and run it thin in other areas, so I omitted it from my deck.


Call Energy
This will help insure a complete set up early.


Double Colorless Energy
When released, these will be staple in every deck. This is one of the best cards in the history of the game. I am very glad to see thiscard coming back, giving you new guys a chance to use it in your decks!


Team Galactic's Wager, Cynthia's Feelings, Professor Rowan, etc
Other cards to refresh your deck with and empty a heavy hand. Each of them have their strengths. Pull out the old Wagers and you just might see some oponent's jaws drop right about now!


Super Scoop Up
To stem the two turn KO's from pounding you. With all the hard hitting Pokemon we have nowadays, this can be very helpful. Oh how we miss you Briney!

Matchups
​

Gengar 80/20 (65/35 with Nidoqueen)
Weakness plus Ampharos make this an easy match-up. Gengar will have a small window in the first couple of turns, but after that it should be smooth sailing. In fact, I built this deck with straight Gengar on my mind in the worst way. Gengar will never have a chance with all the surprises and traps this deck has in store for it. Could this deck be the one to possibly end Gengar's tyrannical reign? Only time will tell!


GeChamp 50/50
Your goal here is to take out the 2 Machamps as quickly as possible. If you are successful in this task, you can face it like a straight Gengar deck. you must be well prepared with your unown G's and bench shields to make it through the Machamp onslaught which of course can't always be accomplished. You will probably find the Psychic Arceus coming in handy here to that end.


Machamp 30/70
Throw all your Unown Gs at it ASAP! Be prepared to Level your Psychic Arceus. This is the roughest match up for this deck. You can win the match, but you will have to be very prepared for it mentally and have a streak of luck!


Flygon Variants 40/60
This is a good match up that will favor the Flygon Player a bit. If you play 3 to 4 turns ahead you can wind your way through the maze that Flygon presents you with. Most players will have problems with this game.


Speedrill 50/50
They both set up fast and hit each other hard. this would be like watching an old Heavy Weight boxing Match where the two fighters stand toe to toe in the middle of the ring while exchanging punishing blows!


Kingdra 55/45
This seems to be a fairly even match that could really fall either way. Both builds are speedy and hit hard. I think this match will be determined by each player's experience with the deck they are running. Edge the favor slightly to Arceus when attacking with your extra Ampharos.


Gyarados 60/40
Though Gyarados is fast, this Arceus should be able to rein it in with it's own speed and all its techs. I am tentatively giving this favor to Arceus because it builds the bench so fast, while Gyarados relies on not having to take all six prizes. With the Basics for its main attacker residing in the discard pile, the angry goldfish will run out of steam before this beast.


***Thanks to baby mario for proofreading, techs, suggestions, and edits.***

 

[MrMeches]

Arceus... a different view point!!

 

[bullados]

how does this fare against the various SP decks floating around out there? Especially Dialga, which gets rid of both type advantage and Omniscient.

 

[waynegg]

how does this fare against the various SP decks floating around out there? Especially Dialga, which gets rid of both type advantage and Omniscient.

Oh- there are definitely drawbacks and near auto losses, but it should hold its own.

Dialga G is mean to it. Luckily, while it floats around out there Dialga G doesn't float to the top near like it used to. Given that, most places are seeing less of it, for now at least. It is an ever present threat though and one to keep an eye out for!

As I said, I obviously haven't been able to try this in any competitive settings and the match-ups are paper and Redshark match ups. Those aren't the best of qualifications. It will have to really get out there and be played for good solid numbers. If I had to guess on the SP factor, maybe 50/50 or 55/45 in the SP's favor (with a good build of course) since they do hit faster. They just don't have quite as much power on average.

The real purpose of this article is to present a different strategy in using Arceus than anything that has been talked about publicly. That way, those who wanted to try Arceus in Citys will have a different look at a strategy in using Arceus which may give them better results. It would be great to use in a Gengar rich area though!

 

[ryanvergel]

From your list, I would drop the other arceus level X for another arceus omniscient, because hes simply the superior arceus. If you need to do big damage, you can use your fire arceus’s attack and weakness.
From there, drop the 2/1/2 ampharos line.
+5 slots
I would then drop a rotom for an uxie. Uxie is too good not to use, especially against gengar (you can hit for weakness[water arceus’s 50x2, or if they level up, do 60x2]), and then retreat/warp and tuck yourself under to OHKO a gengar without that pesky flip.
Roseanne is really really good to get out that early energy/arceus immediately. At least 4 roseanne.
Now add in 2 more first door. These are the best trainers in the deck, because theyre instant search.
Now drop those rare candies that we aren’t using now, and we have
+4 slots
I think if we’re going to use DSG we ought to be using expert belt. With expert belt, hitting for weakness is amazingly easy, and you get to +20 damage, and have +20HP without a weakness. But even then, is she really worth it? Lucky egg isn’t that great, and bench shield don’t seem that needed in this deck. I think we should drop the 2 DSG and those 4 tools and we will have
+10 slots
we can add in that lucario GL we wanted so badly, and now we’re at
+9 slots
a few expert belt and switches would be absolutely amazing, so let’s add 2 expert belt, 2 switch, and an unown Q (amazing card on Arceus X, who gets free retreat with it.)
+4 slots
we still needed those other arceus types since we currently only attack for 3 kinds of weakness.
Let’s add in a lightning arceus, a water arceus, a metal arceus, and we will make the count 2/1/1 in favor of whatever type is more common in our area.
we have no more room, unless we drop the felicity's. rotom is way too hard to use effectively, early, and this deck really doesn’t have that many cards to discard well.
+3 slots
this is a good amount of space left, because I think some recovery is needed. 2 NM with 4 roseanne/4 special door means that it should be pretty easy to get the energy/arceus you need. 3 level X arceus means they should easily be accessible, and you should easily be able to get 2 omniscient in play, and have 2 of your main type attackers available consistently. Another card that seems to work really well with switching and expert belt and multi-types is Ultimate Zone. Any time you switch or retreat, you can simply push the energy forward. This makes having only 2-3 of an energy less of a big deal, and makes it so that you can limit the prizes your opponent takes.

Now come the energy. 4 call seems to go great in this deck- get out your other arceus immediately, and start hitting for damage early. Should help against gengar/machamp/uxie/shuppet donkage too, and your attacks only need 1 specific color energy, so it providing a [C] energy really isn’t a hindrance. Id suggest 4 of these in the deck.

4 call
2 psychic
2 darkness
2 water
2 metal
2 fire
1 lightning
we cover most of the energy types, and have 2 energy to provide our attacks. If you’re pressed for energy a lot, and the NM aren’t really helping, you may want to boost some of the numbers to 3, especially if there are particular attacks you don’t end up using. I think this energy set gives you the most versatility for attacks, and since you hit for weakness with your pokemon and not attack, it shouldn’t be too big of an issue providing some kind of strong attack to hit for weakness. 60 damage is usually enough, and if youre behind on prizes, you get 80, or if you have a belt, youre at 80, or if you use the fire arceus, you hit for 80- and all of those are OHKO with a lucario GL in play- meaning anything should be hit pretty easily.


Pokemon (23)
3 Arceus Lv. X
2 Arceus Dark
2 Arceus Fire
1 Arceus Colorless
1 Arceus Psychic
1 Arceus Lightning
1 Arceus Metal
1 Arceus Water
1 Arceus ?- whatever will metagame the best
---3 level X, and about ten other arceus, hitting 7 types, and having 3 different arceus in sets of doubles. Darkness/psychic are good options to have doubles of, and really whatever is good for your metagame
2 Claydol
2 Baltoy
2 Unown G
1 Rotom (try to use him until he dies if possible, meaning mid game if you have 5/6 energy in the discard, because he takes up a bench space and the opponent may just let you attach because you aren’t doing damage, you don’t want to use the attack once and kind of get stuck)
1 Uxie LA (bad starts and gengar exists- and this guy can save you a lot)
1 Lucario GL
1 Unown Q

Trainers (22)
3 Bebe's Search
4 Roseanne's Research
4 Beginning Door
3 Ultimate Zone
2 Expert Belt
2 Night Maintenance
2 Switch
1 Luxury Ball
1 Looker's Investigation/Cynthia’s Feelings

Energy (15)
4 Call
2 Darkness
1 Lightning
2 Fire
2 Psychic
2 Metal
2 Water


that's my input/deck theory behind what i would do with your list. i think this type of concept is better than a ripple swell theme, because that seems too difficult to set up. i think hitting for weakness needs to be the core theme, so i really just streamlined the deck with that as its key focus, so i increased the consistency, added in a bunch of types, added a few switch cards and recovery cards, and now the entire deck revolves around weakness, and i think pretty well.

SP should still demolish this if they use Dialga G X.

 

[pikkdogs]

This arceus deck is better than the other arceus build here on pokegym, but still the deck might be a good fun deck, but dont waste you money on it if you think you can when a tournament with it.

 

[Shino Bug Master]

I really dislike lists that don't run Lightning Arceus. It gives your PsyBolt a OHKO on Kingdra and Gyarados, and the ability to hit and run off anything else. meaning you can attach Bench Shield to your active (level'd up from Normal) Arceus and turn off hitting Flygon for 60 and making XTreme attack useless for a low energy cost.

I like the idea of the deck, but it seems like waaaaay to much discard in the Fire/Normal Arceus. And Rotom just costs you another prize and turn =/

Also, why run Claydol here instead of a heavier Uxie line? Amphy shuts off Dol anyway. I could see this deck running like Gyarados if played in that way, and require a few Roseannable draws.

 

[waynegg]

From your list... Dialga G X.

I get what you are saying, but what do you do when you face the growing rapidly in popularity Mewtwo Lv. X? The Ampharos is useful and will pick up the slack for Arceus's faults.

I really dislike lists that don't run Lightning Arceus. It gives your PsyBolt a OHKO on Kingdra and Gyarados, and the ability to hit and run off anything else. meaning you can attach Bench Shield to your active (level'd up from Normal) Arceus and turn off hitting Flygon for 60 and making XTreme attack useless for a low energy cost.

I like the idea of the deck, but it seems like waaaaay to much discard in the Fire/Normal Arceus. And Rotom just costs you another prize and turn =/

Also, why run Claydol here instead of a heavier Uxie line? Amphy shuts off Dol anyway. I could see this deck running like Gyarados if played in that way, and require a few Roseannable draws.

Unown G/Bench Shield (whichever would be appropriate as to what you are facing) take care of the Claydol/Amphy issue.

 

[Shino Bug Master]

^No it doesn't. One Crobat G shuts it off. And a lot of meta decks run Bat (gyarados, gengar, sps and uxie donk)

 

[waynegg]

^No it doesn't. One Crobat G shuts it off. And a lot of meta decks run Bat (gyarados, gengar, sps and uxie donk)

yep. you definitely have a point there, but you could also at that point attack with your Ampharos, if needed, forcing your opponent to KO it and be free from the effect. You could also Tech in an Arceus Grass if crobat is heavy in your area.

in the section that has possible substitutions, Other Arceus Types depending on your local meta IS listed. Anything you face can be countered by one of th Arceus.

I also explained that I built the deck with Gengar in mind as 75% or better of what I faced was Gengar in BR's that and Speedrill which is teched for by Leveling one of the Fire type. If I had to face a bunch of Toolboxish SP decks, The Grass Arceus and the Metal Arceus would likely take the2 -2 Spot with others in the minor roles.

You gotta be a little creative and flexible with this deck. One build isn't going to work in every area, but the one skeleton could.

 

[Team_Rocket_Prodigy]

no energy accel besides rotom which u run 2 of and isn't great energy accel in the first place. its too slow to keep up with anything 2/5 stars

 

[ryanvergel]

I get what you are saying, but what do you do when you face the growing rapidly in popularity Mewtwo Lv. X? The Ampharos is useful and will pick up the slack for Arceus's faults.



Unown G/Bench Shield (whichever would be appropriate as to what you are facing) take care of the Claydol/Amphy issue.

http://pokegym.net/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=49224
That would bypass his body. So if you simply use your psychic Arceus, and copy that fastwave attack, especially with an expert belt, they get KOd quite quickly.

 

[Sabett]

First thing's first, I must applaud Ryan for coming the closest to what I think is what the optimal build of arceus will look like first among any list I've seen on here or anywhere. He has put down what eluded my mind for so long, that and I was lazy. I disagree with keeping rotom in and what I felt was a good answer to Dialga G was Luxray GL Lv.X, since people will most often be leveling dialga G up and then keeping him on the bench I think it is key to be able to bring him and OHKO dialga G with the fire arceus. It also helps deal with other techs that could hurt, such as exploud. I kinda want another unown Q in, but im sure that's fine. I think some of the other Arceus Lv.X should be in here as well, because I like the idea of starting with the wrong arceus, leveling him up to a non-omniscent arceus attaching unown Q and bringing up the right arceus and then leveling it up to omniscent arceus. One thing I haven't seen addressed here yet, rainbow energy, am I missing something? is the ten damage that much of a problem? With a rainbow energy that opens the arceus's attack range to everything without having to add more than 3 energy to it. I think that's it for the most part. Good job waynegg and good job Ryan.

I get what you are saying, but what do you do when you face the growing rapidly in popularity Mewtwo Lv. X? The Ampharos is useful and will pick up the slack for Arceus's faults.

Haven't you read the water arceus's attack? Arceus can handle mewtwo X, even OHKO it with expert belt.

 

[ryanvergel]

I just wouldn't use the deck until you can provide an answer to Dialga G X. Luxray isn't TOO hard to get out, since we now run 4 call and 4 roseanne, along with 3 bebe to grab him. It would definitely allow for a nice gust. However, I would just wait until HGSS comes out and pop in 4 reversals. I wonder how good DCE would be. Even 1 or 2 could be moved around with Ultimate Zone fairly easily, to almost always provide 2C. It makes the attacks go from 3 energy attachments for anything significant to 2 attachment costs.

Spiritomb is also a huge bane. Stopping those crucial trainers is hurtful, hence the 3 X count and 4 rose, 4 call, and 3 bebe.

 

[Sabett]

I just wouldn't use the deck until you can provide an answer to Dialga G X. Luxray isn't TOO hard to get out, since we now run 4 call and 4 roseanne, along with 3 bebe to grab him. It would definitely allow for a nice gust. However, I would just wait until HGSS comes out and pop in 4 reversals. I wonder how good DCE would be. Even 1 or 2 could be moved around with Ultimate Zone fairly easily, to almost always provide 2C. It makes the attacks go from 3 energy attachments for anything significant to 2 attachment costs.

Spiritomb is also a huge bane. Stopping those crucial trainers is hurtful, hence the 3 X count and 4 rose, 4 call, and 3 bebe.

Well Dialga G's pretty easy to deal with once you get it to active position, the fire Arceus can OHKO it no matter how many special steels it's got on, with it's own attack. I think DCE will be amazing for Arceus, attach rainbow, and then DCE, thats t2 any arceus attack. (barring Lv. X attacks) I don't like the idea of reversal because it's flippy also Luxray presents a decent attacker and will always gust.

Spritomb is a problem I guess, but I don't imagine it hurting this deck more than it does others.

You know we could add Jirachi in as a starter and put uppers in, this would help us set up real quick despite spiritomb, and also let us go get that upper energy so we'll be ready to attack t2 if they donk it in some way. idk that might be a personal thing.

 

[Mathorn1]

Im not sure I fully understand the purpose of putting Ampharos in here. I realize that you basically said you dont care about synergy(which makes no sense) but there are so many better techs to put in here. That ampharos is taking up 7 spots and not only that its pretty difficult to get out when its only a 2-1-2 line with 2 rare candy and no broken time space. Theoretically you could even make an argument against Bebes being 3 spots although I would disagree. Ryan seems to have it down but even then it really doesnt seem like it can make much of a splash. Hitting any weakness is cute but the inconsistency and large amount of unimpressive Arceus just doesnt convince me.

 

[waynegg]

Im not sure I fully understand the purpose of putting Ampharos in here. I realize that you basically said you dont care about synergy(which makes no sense) but there are so many better techs to put in here. That ampharos is taking up 7 spots and not only that its pretty difficult to get out when its only a 2-1-2 line with 2 rare candy and no broken time space.

I never said you should sacrifice synergy. I don't think you know what synergy means (it is misused a lot) so I will give you the definition. Synergy- the ability to work well together. I said there was a lot of Gengar in my area. If you really can't see the synergy that Ampharos has with this deck when facing the #1 threat in my local meta (and obviously in many other areas as well) then let me explain. It makes it so that when I 1 shot Gengar, my Opponent doesn't get to flip for Fainting Spell. It has other uses that kept it in the deck, but that was the initial main thought for its inclusion.

As to being difficult to get out when it is the ONLY evolution line in the deck, you frankly have no clue what you are talking about (BTS in a deck like this???). There are a ton of decks running a 1-0-1 Nidoqueen or Dusknoir line that seem to be able to get them out by turn 3 at the very least on a consistent basis. I could thin it to 1-0-1 and add 2 more Beginning Door and an Azelf, but i prefer a little more caution and go with the 2-1-2. That's a preference.

I also stated that your local meta may be different, so tweek it to what works for YOUR area.

 

[Mathorn1]

Wow so much wrong with what you just said. Youre basically running 7+ dead cards for a matchup that isnt even that terrible to begin with. Not only that I really dont see you getting the Ampharos out in time for it to be that useful in the matchup. I never stated that you should run BTS, what im saying is that its awfully hard to get out a stage 2 pokemon when you are running a 2-1-2 line with only 2 rare candy and no BTS. And since theres no other way to do it in this deck maybe it doesnt belong in there.

Those decks you are speaking of that run 1-0-1 dusknoir or Nidoqueen generally have most or all of the following
4 Call energy
4 Rare Candy
3-4 BTS
4 Roseannes
4 Bebes
1 or more luxury ball
some run 3-3 claydol which makes it even more consistent

This is not a stage 2 deck which means it will have issues getting that stage 2 out.

Really I have no clue what im talking about? You make an absolutly rediculous deck with terrible matchups across the board with a seemingly untested list(I really hope thats the reason its so bad) and then cry when you get criticism.

Edit: I reread the synergy part and realized that I misread it during the speed reading. Originally I thought that it said that you should embrace the fact that it doesnt have synergy. Not that the deck has synergy past the Gengar matchup anyway.

 

[waynegg]

Really I have no clue what im talking about? You make an absolutly rediculous deck with terrible matchups across the board with a seemingly untested list(I really hope thats the reason its so bad) and then cry when you get criticism.

Have you run the deck? Even on Redshark? I have. This is how it played for me. I also said the deck needed more REAL TIME testing, but that it showed some promise, or did you miss that when you skimmed over it as well. If you don't have time to actually read and understand (or at least ask questions about what you don't understand), then don't bash. You aren't that informed on the subject.

Oh- and crying? No, lol! But I'm not going to ignore your ill informed -zero- experience with the subject, off hand bashing and not respond to it. I put in a fair amount of time on the article and testing. If you can't wrap your head around it, sorry.

 

[FlamingJapaneseMan]

This is actually a good deck. I'd fit in a 1-1 Claydol line in here or 2 uxie or both, as it seems to be lacking a straight source of draw. Rotom can be dropped. Though it is helpful, you may draw it late game and that would not be so nice. JMO.