Respect and Pokemon

[toradam]

Great Article, but it should be addressed that your credentials with the deck at hand should be talked about, not just how you got top 16 in worlds 3 years ago with Deck X

 

[Blue Blur]

Jaeger, great article; helps redefine the meaning of respect in this multi-faceted game
For everyone else I have one thing to say... WARP POINT GOOD GAME




(I'm not ateam member, just fell off my chair when I read it)

 

[machampion12]

Awesome article Jay.:thumb: I enjoyed reading it and it sure makes me proud to be an Iowan.

 

[Volt]

That is the first problem with this "article" (which is basically just a collection of common sense statements that everyone knows anyway) - you're taking this way, way too seriously.

There is no problem with this article.

If common sense were that common, this article would be a waste of time. Apparently, "common" sense is so obvious that it's overlooked 90% of the time, so it isn't.

Talking about seriousness; who made an account just to post a reply to this thread because he's so serious about it? Uho.

(in conclusion he made your team more famous, at least I never heard of Team WPGG before lol)

 

[Jaeger]

I hope I get the chance to play you at Nats, and to take 6 prizes on you when you really, really need a win.

I'm Evan Baker, and I approve of this message.

I really see this great sportsmanship you talk about.

Thank You to everyone who left helpful or supportive comments

---------- Post added 11/01/2010 at 09:33 PM ----------

Awesome article Jay.:thumb: I enjoyed reading it and it sure makes me proud to be an Iowan.

Do I know you? .

 

[PokePop]

I think Jay has spent enough time defending a comment that he apparently did not mean to taken the way it has been taken.

Back to the topic at hand please.

What part of "back to the topic" are y'all having trouble understanding?

And to close out the point: If you have to give lengthy explanations of how a phrase you use is not meant to be a put down, then [Dr Phil]how is that workin' fer yew?[/Dr Phil]

Anyway, enough! Warp Point GG! Back to the topic!

 

[Otaku]

Great Article, but it should be addressed that your credentials with the deck at hand should be talked about, not just how you got top 16 in worlds 3 years ago with Deck X

Oh look, someone made my point in just one long sentence instead of one long post. :thumb:

Okay, not completely the same point, but similar: this article was about credentials and respect. My big point is that Pokemon "credentials" are only worth so much credit, and it goes both ways: only one person can win a tournament, and only so many can make the top cut. It isn't like there is a flat test that says "This player knows what s/he is doing, this player doesn't." I remember being amazed at how awesome the top four players were at our League (isn't it always an Elite Four?:lol but thinking back, most of them were the players who were able to invest time and money in the game. A few were creative as well, but especially since this was waaaaaaaaaay back before Neo Revelation (yeah, not even with all the Neo sets!), there weren't that many big, official tournaments to compete in. They knew their stuff and they proved it in person when they played you or online with intelligent writing.

I'll also say it again: some people are good at this game but not tournaments. While I can't claim to be all that great at either right now, when I was able to dedicate the time and resources to be "serious" about Pokemon, guess what?

I.

would.

choke.

at.

tournaments.

Even if I ran a "good" deck, I had this tendency to make at least one bad play a tournament, early on. Some tournaments it seemed like I couldn't stop panicking: once I made my first bad move, I'd let it throw me off and I worry so much about "proving" myself or my deck the next round, I'd keep making foolish plays.

Yet even at this time, many people would seek my advice about decks. If I wasn't sure, I would defer to someone like Jay, especially towards the end of my last "run" when I knew I was again getting out of touch with the game. Still, half the best advice I've gotten in this game came from "pro" players, the rest? Came from people who had no accomplishments to their name (though later they might have garnered a few). They were just people who could see things in cards and in the game others couldn't, and I could take those pieces and combine it with what I saw and what I knew.

 

[toradam]

@ otaku-I agree but what i was trying to say is a much more basic point, if Deck X is not the one the article is referencing then the amazing top cut at worlds has very little to do how well you know the deck the article is talking about, not about what you were trying to say.

 

[machampion12]

You probably don't but I know that your brother does. I'm the kid in seniors that used to always play machamp and I travel to the Cedar Rapids league from a different city.

 

[Jaeger]

toradam: Thats an interesting point that I have my own opinion on but really don't feel like typing a few paragraphs right now that ask more questions than they answer, maybe my next article.

Joey: i think it competely depends on what your writing about. I think it is very rare to have an amazing player that does bad at tournaments but I suppose its possible. I think its for more likely to have a player that can make understand the game macanics and pick out the "hot" cards from the latest set (aka write card of the days, etc.) I think it is much hard for said person to write about high level tournament stradgey on in depth stradgey articles over a deck.

 

[EvanBaker]

Ok, Take 2

I really see this great sportsmanship you talk about.

Thank You to everyone who left helpful or supportive comments


So it's unsportsmanlike to say that if we were to play a game, I'd prefer to win? Ok... Guess I should have said, "I hope you take 6 prizes from me."

Look, there was nothing in my post that necessitated or justified a deletion. Censorship of a perfectly reasonable discussion where 2 or more parties do not agree hurts the credibility of this board, and therefore the credibility of the site as a whole. One side of the coin was presented, and I presented the reverse.

Let me attempt to re-state my point without the personal anecdotes: I don't believe the "problem" with Pokemon is that it's participants are rude. Any competitive situation will always leave one party feeling good (the winner) and one player feeling bad (the loser). Have any of you ever played sports? This is a part of competitive human nature. Sure, there are more and less appropriate ways for a win or loss to be handled. BUT, I played competitive athletics at the college level and now I coach at the High School level, and I must say that the behavior I've seen displayed after a rough Pokemon match does not even compare to some of the things I've seen in a post-game handshake line.

In my honest opinion, the real problem is the general oversensitivity of Pokemon players. So what if someone doesn't shake after a game because they're ticked at you? So what if they say things like "you got lucky" or "must be nice"... take your win and cruise! There are thousands of Pokemon players; make friends with those whose behavior is attractive to you, and don't get caught up with the bad apples.

In summary, the point I was trying to make is that Pokemon players, in general, take things a little too seriously. And, in my opinion, this article is a prime example of that, especially the portion that took a shot at Team Warp Point - a bunch of kids from Michigan who are just trying to have fun.

 

[Jaeger]

I really see this great sportsmanship you talk about.

Thank You to everyone who left helpful or supportive comments


So it's unsportsmanlike to say that if we were to play a game, I'd prefer to win? Ok... Guess I should have said, "I hope you take 6 prizes from me."

We'll leave this one alone because thats not what you said or your intent but I digress.

Look, there was nothing in my post that necessitated or justified a deletion. Censorship of a perfectly reasonable discussion where 2 or more parties do not agree hurts the credibility of this board, and therefore the credibility of the site as a whole. One side of the coin was presented, and I presented the reverse.

Great than lets discuss it.

Let me attempt to re-state my point without the personal anecdotes: I don't believe the "problem" with Pokemon is that it's participants are rude. Any competitive situation will always leave one party feeling good (the winner) and one player feeling bad (the loser). Have any of you ever played sports?

Of course I have I'm a very competive person. Ran CC and Track in High School along with playing soccer. College I do Martial Arts two of them have competition based aspects.

This is a part of competitive human nature. Sure, there are more and less appropriate ways for a win or loss to be handled. BUT, I played competitive athletics at the college level and now I coach at the High School level, and I must say that the behavior I've seen displayed after a rough Pokemon match does not even compare to some of the things I've seen in a post-game handshake line.

Yep I've been those lines to and I know what your talking about. I think it has a lot to do with expectation. If I walk into a bar I should expect it to be loud, alot of yelling and stupid intoxicated people. However if I walk into a library I should not be bombard with the same thing. Horrible annology but I hope you get what I'm trying to say. Sadly this is far more expected in competive High School and College sports. Pokemon on the other hand is far more "kid friendly" game, sportsmanship is a huge aspect of the game and pushed strongly by POP.

In my honest opinion, the real problem is the general oversensitivity of Pokemon players. So what if someone doesn't shake after a game because they're ticked at you? So what if they say things like "you got lucky" or "must be nice"... take your win and cruise! There are thousands of Pokemon players; make friends with those whose behavior is attractive to you, and don't get caught up with the bad apples.



In summary, the point I was trying to make is that Pokemon players, in general, take things a little too seriously. And, in my opinion, this article is a prime example of that, especially the portion that took a shot at Team Warp Point - a bunch of kids from Michigan who are just trying to have fun.

I don't have a problem with your team, heck I don't even know any of you. My comment was refering to anything that people could take as a slap in the face at the end of the game. As you already said tentions run high why risk pissing people off more?

 

[meganium45]

Jay, still an honor to judge you at the 3-4 match at Worlds.

Heck, I can remember when I could beat you! LOL.

Great article.

Vince

 

[PokePop]

Look, there was nothing in my post that necessitated or justified a deletion. Censorship of a perfectly reasonable discussion where 2 or more parties do not agree hurts the credibility of this board, and therefore the credibility of the site as a whole.

Yes, actually, there was.
You had a graphic comment about an anatomical action that was rude and profane.
Keep your comments respectful, or, as you say, perfectly reasonable, and you'll be fine.
There was nothing wrong with the point of your discussion, just how you made it.

 

[Bolt]

Very nice post, Jay. I was actually thinking of writing something along these lines.

If I could add on (not sure how off-topic this is), looking back at my TCG experience as shown me that being a generally GOOD PERSON will get you very far in this game. When I took the game a lot more seriously a few years ago, I wasn't very good. Now, I'd at least like to think that I can compete with the best of them.

Turning point in my Pokemon TCG "career" was sending a PM to Ryan Vergel, politely asking for some help with a decklist. Now, he's one of my best friends. I playtest with the likes of him, Pooka, Holton, Magnechu, ChaosJim, and so on. A lot of my best friends in this game (and outside) are some of the most accomplished players.

Not trying to brag, but get the point across that being well-liked can do wonders for you both in-game and out.

 

[Otaku]

In summary, the point I was trying to make is that Pokemon players, in general, take things a little too seriously. And, in my opinion, this article is a prime example of that, especially the portion that took a shot at Team Warp Point - a bunch of kids from Michigan who are just trying to have fun.

Since Team Warp Point are freaking out over someone challenging their little statement that barely matters... isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?

I would argue the opposite: we live in a desensitized society. Actions that used to indicate you wanted to fight are now supposed to just be "friendly chatter".

 

[Jaeger]

Very nice post, Jay. I was actually thinking of writing something along these lines.

If I could add on (not sure how off-topic this is), looking back at my TCG experience as shown me that being a generally GOOD PERSON will get you very far in this game. When I took the game a lot more seriously a few years ago, I wasn't very good. Now, I'd at least like to think that I can compete with the best of them.

Turning point in my Pokemon TCG "career" was sending a PM to Ryan Vergel, politely asking for some help with a decklist. Now, he's one of my best friends. I playtest with the likes of him, Pooka, Holton, Magnechu, ChaosJim, and so on. A lot of my best friends in this game (and outside) are some of the most accomplished players.

Not trying to brag, but get the point across that being well-liked can do wonders for you both in-game and out.

Bolt I'm the same way and agree completely, few years ago I took this game to seriously but since I've loosened up I feel like I've made a ton more friends and become a better player.

 

[Rogue Archetype]

, b. since the OP was not aware of the meaning, origin, or correct application of the phrase, he should not have referenced it.

As far as Pokepop's deletion rationale goes, the phrase I used was about as Mickey Mouse as it gets and didn't contain a single curse word, or any word/phrase that isn't in the average person's vocabulary by the time they're 10. Calling it "graphic" and "profane" is overdramatic, and, as I said, deleting it hurts the integrity of the website. There is a time and place for censorship; that was not it, because now my original post can be quoted piece by piece without any frame of reference or context.

Dude. You're kinda making me think bad things about your team. Overly sensitive, won't drop it after it's been REPEATEDLY said that he didn't even KNOW WHO YOU GUYS WERE when he wrote that.

Who hasn't dropped a WARP POINT and said "Warp, GG man .. *extend hand*" ??

You name yourself after an actual CARD then get all 007 when somebody makes a reference to the card man? Really? You shouldn't take it there.

My man. Fall back and discuss the actual intent of the article.
I don't mind a debate, but you're killing AND kicking a horse here. It's SO NOT a good look for you man.

For real for real.

PokePop is TRYING to rescue a thread that's being chocked by undue DRAMA.
Fortunately, he has more patience then me so ...

I'll just say what everybody wants to say... in the common vernacular ... .

DUDE... AIN'T NOBODY EVEN TALKIN' ABOUT TEAM WARP POINT.

And.. the OP can use "Warp Point.. GG" in his article all he wants because it HAS BEEN said at tables long before you probably decided to name your team.

I'm gonna fall back myself before I GET modded.

For real though, let's get back to the MEANINGs of what was dropped on us in the OP. It was mad decent.

P.S.
I'm sick and grumpy .. lol

 

[bulbasnore]

Responding to the article: I've given a lot of thought to what I say after a match. For me it boils down to something I can say sincerely to everyone after the match:

Thanks for the game!
​

I like to play, but no one has to play me. My opponent may be an old friend, an arrogant trash talker or a child (league). All of them afforded me the opportunity to play the match. Thanks! No insincerity, no boasting. Gratitude should always be in season.

I'm gonna fall back myself before I GET modded.

Hey, I'd like to thank you for not posting (#6) the same point or request over and over, and for encouraging our members to be cool and do likewise. You said it well and very nicely. To be clear, the subject of "Team Warp Point" is now overdone in this thread.

 

[Lehuere]

very good article! Just remember its a childrens card game not martial arts so people are never going to stop being petty but man this was a really good read!

and just to add, i love everyone at my league from the bottom of my heart! love you guys