Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

State of the Format.

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lol That's a bad beat.It happens. Ryan played the same thing and got t1'd two times against sableye. We only played 4 basics that are t1 killable by sabelye. This game is just numbers. If bad kids cant win they will stop playing. Why do you think Machamp and Gengars are just RARES.

Deck building skill AND in game skill are ALWAYS needed.Just as much as luck. No matter what anyone say's otherwise.It takes 2/3 of those things to win a tourney. It takes all 3 to consistenly win.
 
The best move to make in my opinion...... Actually I'm borrowing it from a friend of mine from Holland.... (his post is about 4 above this)

Make the USA play the best 2 out of 3 per Round like they do over in his country.....

I know time constraints, etc cause this to be a problem..... But to eliminate the whining/crying about Donk decks, etc..... this would be one of the easiest passive solutions.....
 
In all honesty, a lot of this format can be very skill-based, almost to the point where games can get a little boring. I've won plenty of games this year by outplaying my opponents. However, I've haven't been so scared to start with one Pokemon in my opening hand since Erika's Jigglypuff was played. Going first with a weak Pokemon is a death sentence. I don't know of many games where going first is a complete disadvantage, but right now it's true for Pokemon.

In Pokemon there always has been a balance between luck and skill. During the first turn(s), the game leans more towards luck than skill. If you can manage to get past those turns, the opposite is true; the games are very competitive and complex. All you can do is hope you don't get unlucky in those first few turns.
 
Ehlerz5: ppl would still complain. The format is fine like everyone else mentioned besides first turn kills. R.R should help solve the problem
 
There will *always* be people whining about the format. Nothing is perfect, but when there is a multitude of excellent decks and no certain "BDIF", then the format is almost at it's best. I like that I didn't see half the decks at Regionals be one archetype. I saw several electric/fire, Machamp, Tyranitar, Galactic, Dialga/Palkia, GG, Kingdra, Blastcatty, Gengar, etc. I never played the same deck twice and had fun. It's nice when the format allows you to work on your deck to make it the best it possibly can be, rather than just to see how much you can "tech" it against the 1-3 archetype decks.
 
meganium45 said:
There were first turn donks...but the better players could avoid them, usually.

Vince
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This is unfortunately a very inaccurate statement.

No matter how good you are, if your opening hand is a Baltoy, no call energy, and no other basics, it's completely out of your control whether your opponent can KO next turn or not.


And people shouldn't want to have to load up their deck with basics or call energy if there is no synergy or whatever, just to avoid a first turn loss.


What the ability of FTKO is doing is leveling out the format so that anyone can win with no skill and poor decklists.


I totally agree however that once you get past the first one or maybe 2 turns this format has plenty of skill, and with cards like Gengar that is a pretty strong statement.


It's the first turn that is killing the format right now and it's really unfortunate.

At my regionals there was so much FTKO that at one point after a round 4 friends and I were all sitting around a table after 30 seconds as we had all been FTKOd that round.

Also, if you include individual games in top cut matches, 4/10 of my matches ended on the first turn. I won one of those. I went 7-3 on the day and all 3 losses were t1s. Proving some peoples points...once it gets past the first turn it turns into a much more significant battle of skill. When the main (almost only) thing you have to worry about in a tournament is getting FTKOd I think something is wrong.


Is it really right when 40% of your games end on the first turn??

This number may be high but really I think most people were at 2 or 3 games for the day that ended in FTKO.


Something should be done, whether it is that people are allowed to play supporters on the first turn of the game or whether people can't play trainers on the second turn of the game or something else it really should change to prevent a lot of crap happening at nats and worlds.
 
Yeah, I must agree with Joner. I played 16 basics and 4 roseanne this past weekend and I get t2ed by an uxie due to an unown G start with 6 trainers.There is no way a better player could play their way out of that scenario nor is their any way to avoid a donk in this game unless you opt to do something rediculous like play a cyrus when you see a horsea or machop on the opposing side.
 
Again, the format is great. There's lots of skill if you get past the first few turns of the game. The problem is that winning on the first turn of the game is completely lacking in any sort of skill most of the time, and is completely unavoidable when you start with a single basic. Even in decks with 15 or so basics you still start with just one a significant amount of the time, and in decks with less you aren't going to just add random basics so you don't get donked. Sure you can play decks that have more basics by nature, like SP decks, but these STILL DO get donked. This problem could EASILY be fixed if players were allowed to play a supporter card on the first turn of the game. Practically every deck runs 4 Roseanne, 4 Bebe. With these cards in addition to all the basics you have it should be pretty hard to lose on turn 1 if you were allowed to actually play them. I've lost countless games on turn 1 with a bebe or roseanne in my opening hand.
 
Put your self in the other persons shoes.

If you some how had a perfect hand and could get the T1 win, would you do it?
Of corse you would.
 
^ And players would still complain after doing that 3 times in a row, and then having the one guy get lucky and actually donk them.
 
Does anybody here think Rising Rivals will change the state at all? Someone has had to of seen spoilers, I haven't yet..
 
Mathorn1 said:
Wow will you take a different point of view for a moment please. Yes its true I would never have posted this had I not been donked but the point is this could happen to anybody and it shouldnt. Nobody should ever have to be out of a tournament because of that, especially after all the playtesting i put into regionals. A player should have to have their skill, creativity, and stamina tested in a tournament. I didnt even get the chance to show how well I satisfy those needs. There was never a year where I could go this well prepared into a tournament just to go down without a fight.
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I know exactly how you feel, i tested my deck since before states and went 2-3 drop after going 5-1 at states with it. Its really depressing when you put so much hard work into somthing and then it just thrown away. As for the format, meh, it could be a little better.
 
Makes me think it's strange how Mathorn1 already won the thread and people still keep finding it okay that Donks exist for some weird reason.

I have to say that I've been Donk a lot of times and that it says something bad about the game and the players in general. Look at the Organized play area and see how many have won with Macheap.

People that want to win shall play it, skill or no skill since luck isn't a part of Donking. This sucks for the people with skill that want to be able to surpass that T1 but thanks to the Donkfest (Like it is in Holland), the game stops being fun more and more as you get continued to get Donked.

I wonder, should I stay and play a game where Donking keeps being possible, in the hope that they stop making Donk cards (OR BANNING THEM) at some moment in time, or should I have a brain and find something else, more useful way to spend my time instead of playing games that end on T1.
 
People who love donk decks are those who often don't have the skill to win any other way. At least that's my view on it.
 
I know, I know. Still, I don't think I'd want to hang out with such noobs. Since this format seems to be filled with noobs (Loads of people without skill that resort to Donk decks), I am starting to wonder if the game is worth the time I spend in getting cards to create my deck that I want to play @ tournaments.

I was wondering if there is a more useful way to spend my time at tournies without getting Donked. But I guess there isn't. And without a way to make the game more balanced, there is no way there is chance for the few players that have actual brains and skill. Just my 2 cents.
 
I wouldn't call them noobs, rather just greedy players who don't care for good games.
Regardless, I'm just gonna bring my DS with Platinum and GTA to the next tournament so I can have something to do after super-short games.
 
Me too, though obviously we'd rather have long games that are worth our time, right?

Point taken on the noob part. True, and that means sadly that lot's of people are either in too much for the win and are abusing the tools handed out by the game itself.
 
afstandopleren said:
...are abusing the tools handed out by the game itself.
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Question for the sake of discussion: What constitutes abuse in this scenario? The use of Machamp/Sableye/Kingdra/etc in a deck focused on the donk or just the use in general?

Could the use of a dedicated SP deck and the tools provided to it be considered abuse?

Was not the interaction of the cards involved in the B-L-S archetype of formats past, abusive, or the GG archetype of more recent formats?

In my opinion, using the word ABUSE is an attempt to sensationalize and over-exaggerate the issue.

The issue seems to be more the amount of PLAYERS that choose Machamp as their deck of choice than the fact that Machamp and the rest exist. Kingdra and Sableye are easy to work around. Sableye just calls for a reduction of the number of <50hp basics in your deck. Kingdra isn't even really a threat in general as far as I see since it actually takes work to set up. So that leaves Machamp as the sole offender. If your meta is crawling with Champ, you really only have a few choices. Suck it up and cross your fingers or don't play. If those choices don't tickle your fancy, you build your deck in an attempt to minimize your chances to be donked. Call for family is found on many basics and is on one of the most splashable and dare I say useful PKMN in the game. If that doesn't suit you Call Energy is out there, trade that measly 10 dmg you were going to do for 2 basics. If you still have issues use both. Sure it may water down some of the "cool things" your deck "might" be able to do but Google "The Danger of Cool Things" and consider how it applies to this meta. It just might mean the difference between winning and losing.

In times of hardship, innovation has been the saviour of Man since the beginning of time. Why should it be any different in a childrens game?

Especially when the makers give you all the answers... :lol:
 
You can't work around a Macheap donk. This example is perfect to me:

BR Finals. Macheap vs. Obamasnow. Obamasnow running 13 (!) basics and 4 Call Energy.

Game 1:
Obama player has to start. Hand includes Snover, Roseanne, Bebe, Night Maintainance, Switch and 2 other cards I cant quickly recall (No pokemon). No energy drawn, pass, go. Player 2 has Machop, plays Candy, Macheap, Energy, Game.

Game 3:
Obama player starts, again with Snover. Energy in hand, as well as Roseanne, Bebe, Claydol, Obama, Switch and another Energy. Drawn into Roseanne. Attach to Snover, Hide. Tails. Macheap player plays Machop, Candy, Macheap, drops Uxie, 4th card is a Roseanne. Game.

Tell me, how could the Obama player prevent this from happening despite his 17 (!) cards of which any combination of 2 would've saved him, knowing that game 2 went his way despite yet another T1 Macheap?
 
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