Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

The Best in the Game

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kristi

kristi

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*Mods please move this thread if it is in the wrong forum*

I have been playing pokemon TCG for over 2 years now, and I classify myself as a more-than-decent player. However, I want to be better. I'm sure that many other players here on pokegym would like to improve as well. Anyway, my question is what do you think sets the best players off from the rest? What qualities are needed for players to be great? Now, quite a few ideas come to my mind like deck building, playtesting, and making the right decisions in tough situations. I know that I had more to post but my brain is just blank right now. :tongue: So please, discuss.
 
Experience, solid decks, dedication, playing the bdif, competitivness a good player to learn from and test against, knowing the strat and not making misplays and most importantly luck in each game.
 
I am just a decent player, but I know what it takes to become an excellent player. It takes dedication and practice. Some would say money helps but, in this game, most cards are fairly easy to get, so it's an even enviornment. Deck building skills are very big, I don't think it's THAT big in order to be successful. I think the ability to make clutch decisions and thinking ahead is what makes you a great player.

The biggest as I have stated, is dedication.
 
I've seen a bunch of these threads in the past few years, and I think realized a few weeks ago something that, however small, is a huge thing: people don't know their own decklists.

I'm amazed with how many people I ask what their list looks like and they say "well I run 2 or 3 of these, actually maybe only 1." Not just for 1 or 2 cards, but for a lot of them. If you don't know your list by heart, you're never going to win. I could recite decklist after decklist, even some from years ago. You have to know your deck and be comfortable with it-it's the same with any other competitive game or sport. If a baseball player doesn't know the feel of his glove, than he will not be very successful.

And for people who think they have to sit down and stare at your list to memorize it, I don't really think that's it either. If you play even a few games with it you should pick up exactly what is in the deck-even if you have never seen the list on paper. This leads to my next point, which is calculating opponent's decklists.

In a swiss round it's harder to do, but in matchplay definitely, good players, at the end of their game(s) could write down probably 90% of their opponent's decklist. That's what it takes-you have to use the information you know and make educated guesses to how many of each card your opponent plays. A simple example is playing vs Dusknoir. You figure they run the DP Dusknoir so you 3 bench. I played against a Dusknoir deck a few weeks ago and I did this, only to see Dusknoir SF1, SF2, Promo, and Lv. X come out. After I saw the last Dusknoir came out I immediately filled my bench. Things like this, but on a much more acute and subtle scale are necessary to become a great player.

Another example of that was watching Ross play one of the Brander brothers at Worlds. Ross guessed almost his exact list after playing the other Brander brother earlier in the day, and was able to use that information and almost win because he knew how many Energy, etc. he played.

So, in conclusion, know your decklist and make educated guesses on your opponent's list, and you will be successful.
 
^agree completely.
You can't win at al lif you don't know your own deck. You need to know how much energy you have left without searching your deck, what things are prized, etc etc.

nnann: Umm I disagree with the "playing the BDIF" makes you a great player. Most of the great players don't use the "BDIF" and the majority of the people who would use sed "BDIF" don't know how to use it.
 
well, to me if a player is ranked extremely high and they used the BDIF to get there, i dont think they deserve to be one of the best. if you play the BDIF once just to win some cards, then make a good rogueish deck and win with it, then your a good player.
 
Playing the BDIF is completely wrong. Yes a lot of good players play it but that is because they were playing it for a while. Last year a ton of great players used it but some didn't do well because they didn't know exactly how to use it. Also The players who were succesful have been playing GG since it came out. With this said knowing the deck is a big part. Knowing the decklist by heart and knowing how to play it.
 
Magnechu said:
I've seen a bunch of these threads in the past few years, and I think realized a few weeks ago something that, however small, is a huge thing: people don't know their own decklists.

I'm amazed with how many people I ask what their list looks like and they say "well I run 2 or 3 of these, actually maybe only 1." Not just for 1 or 2 cards, but for a lot of them. If you don't know your list by heart, you're never going to win. I could recite decklist after decklist, even some from years ago. You have to know your deck and be comfortable with it-it's the same with any other competitive game or sport. If a baseball player doesn't know the feel of his glove, than he will not be very successful.

And for people who think they have to sit down and stare at your list to memorize it, I don't really think that's it either. If you play even a few games with it you should pick up exactly what is in the deck-even if you have never seen the list on paper. This leads to my next point, which is calculating opponent's decklists.

In a swiss round it's harder to do, but in matchplay definitely, good players, at the end of their game(s) could write down probably 90% of their opponent's decklist. That's what it takes-you have to use the information you know and make educated guesses to how many of each card your opponent plays. A simple example is playing vs Dusknoir. You figure they run the DP Dusknoir so you 3 bench. I played against a Dusknoir deck a few weeks ago and I did this, only to see Dusknoir SF1, SF2, Promo, and Lv. X come out. After I saw the last Dusknoir came out I immediately filled my bench. Things like this, but on a much more acute and subtle scale are necessary to become a great player.

Another example of that was watching Ross play one of the Brander brothers at Worlds. Ross guessed almost his exact list after playing the other Brander brother earlier in the day, and was able to use that information and almost win because he knew how many Energy, etc. he played.

So, in conclusion, know your decklist and make educated guesses on your opponent's list, and you will be successful.
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I agree completely. This is exactly what I was thinking when my head went blank. That's why I build my own list, and then get help with it later on. If you build your own deck, then it will most likely fit your play style better. My friend had a jirachi EX at worlds, but he chose not to play it because he hadn't had enough experience with it. IMO, that was a wise decision. Knowing your deck is extremely importent.

As far as knowing your opponent's list, I agree with that statement as well. At states last year I was trying to explain to this guy that I know from league how he could gain an advantage before the game even started. My example was if he saw a murkrow while his opponent was shuffling or something, he could infer that they were playing DWD, the strategy of the deck was to keep him at no hand, how to beat it, what the main attacker was, and a lot of other stuff as well.
 
The other thing about knowing your decklist is actually knowing what each card does, not just the important ones. What I mean by this is know your Stage 1s in Stage 2 decks, know your Basics in Stage 1 decks.

This past weakend at one of Jimmy's CCs in Top 8 vs. Chuck, I was put in a tight spot by his version of G/G Weavile. But I remembered that Dusclops (S/F, Dark-One Eye) second attack could do 60 with a coin-flip, 90 to his Gardy, and after I had hit it for 20 with Abomasnow it would be KOed. I went on the flip and got it. Making Chuck scoop because it was his only Gardy in play and both his Claydols where prized. A bit lucky on my part, but it wouldn't have happened if I didn't remember that Dusclops had that attack.

Another thing about knowing your decklist is that sometimes you need a Warp Point to win a game but you can't remember if you put 2 or 3 in the deck, and you have used 2 already. So you think your list has 3, and attempt getting that third one that doesn't exist.
 
Practice, practice, practice. I will make an allusion to musicians a little here and say what every great Jazz musician will say when asked how they got so good. You just have to keep practicing and learning and knowing everything there is to know about your style of music and your instrument. Lots of times they will mention that John Coltrane and Charlie Parker practiced more than anyone else, and we can all see the results they had. Most of those great musicians practice several hours each day in addition to whatever performances or concerts they would be playing.

Part of that practice is not just practice itself, but it is good practice. You want to formulate a schedule or a plan of some sort so you can be sure you cover every aspect of the game you need to. For me, I play a couple matches each night of a particular matchup for a week and go through one matchup each week leading up to a tournament series. Before hand I make sure to know exactly how many matchups I plan on testing so I know how many weeks to give myself. In this manner, I am playing at my absolute best right at the time of the tournaments I play in. I will have not only become very well acquainted with my deck and every little nuance of it, but I will also have covered every single matchup in depth and tweaked my deck with cards specifically for each matchup, if necessary. An example of such tech cards is last year, I ran an Electivire deck that used both Electivires and Delcatty PK. I found that in a Magmortar matchup, I had a major weakness for a Magmortar Lv.X using Torrid Wave to burn an active Electivire DP and then Flame Bluster a benched Electivire SW. This would cut off my crucial energy support and prevent my active Electivire DP from using Intense Voltage due to being burned. I eliminated this weakness by running three Heal Energy. With it, I could take the burn off of the Electivire DP and then use Intense Voltage, and ideally, knock out the Magmortar Lv.X with a Giga Impact with Strength Charm. It would also provide Colorless energy to make Giga Impact more Energy efficient. It is adjustments and preparations like these that can turn a loss into a win come the day of the tournament.
 
Some things to keep in mind.

Rating is in no way a reflection of how good a player is. Some people are amazing deck builders, but suck at playing. Then you have the people who have no clue of how to build a deck, but are amazing players.

The trick is to find out what YOU are best at.

As Magnechu said, KNOW YOUR DECK LIST!!! I can't even begin to tell you how huge it is to know every card in your deck. Play test a lot and it really just becomes something you memorize with out even really trying.

Here's a really simple one. Don't misplay, and always watch for your opponent to make a mistake so you can take advantage of it. I almost never misplay (except when I'm really tired or distracted :p) and it REALLY helps you do better. In close games a singe misplay can decide it, and who ever can take advantage of it usually can cause some serious damage.

Use smart deck choices. Really, there is only so much you can do to prepare your deck for a tourney. But what it really gets down to is make it CONSISTENT! Don't over tech (youll never be able to tech for everything so dont even try), only 1 or 2 small tech lines should be used. Make sure you pick a deck with good/even matchups against the decks in your area. And the really big one.... DO NOT USE LUCK BASED DECKS. This is a HUGE mistake, as luck has a tendency to fail you when you most need it. While luck based decks can be very good, they are inconsistent.

Don't be afraid to use the BDIF because you think otheres will think badly of you. If a deck is BDIF, its BDIF for a good reason. Not using it because you want to be different, or just beacause you don't like it is plain stupid. Its increadibly hard to build a good red face paint deck that consistently wins. Sometimes simple is best.

NEVER underestimate a deck or player, expect EVERY match to be hard, and every player to be good. Underestimating a player/deck can be a huge mistake, that can eventually lead to you losing.

The last thing I will mention is not only know your deck list, but know your deck. Learn how it works, what to do if you get a bad start (yes all decks get bad starts so its good to know how to play out of them), learn every aspect of how your deck can function untill you know it by heart. I've won battles by attacking with Claydols. Many people would never even look at Claydol as an attacker, but at times he can be the perfect attacker. Being flexible is undoubtedly the most importent part of playing with your deck. You have to be able to change strategy at an instant (a good idea is just expect someone to ruin your perfect plan as it usually happens anyway ;p). Above all, dont over think it. If you think to hard about a given battle, it can mess with you, and you can actually misplay due to forgetting something.

Theres sooooooooooo much more you can do to improve yourself as a player. A lot of it is just stuff youll figure out on your owne.
 
IMO there's more to being a good player and being to the best you can be that playing a net deck.

If you can win worlds with a theme deck you you win hands down as greatest player ever.
 
i like burdn of a day said:
well, to me if a player is ranked extremely high and they used the BDIF to get there, i dont think they deserve to be one of the best. if you play the BDIF once just to win some cards, then make a good rogueish deck and win with it, then your a good player.
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Such an ignorant comment! This is what separates the good players from the bad players: the good players don't care what deck they play. If it's the best deck and they feel most comfortable with it, then you play it. Some examples: I think Torterra/Sceptile was the play for Nationals last year, but I didn't have enough experience with it so I went with the Gardy list I had been testing. Similar for Worlds, I know Jason didn't think Gardy was the best deck, but he played it anyway. Don't not play a deck because it's the best deck-don't play a deck because you don't feel comfortable playing it. The only player who consistenly does well with rogue decks, as Chuck once said, is Jimmy Ballard.
 
Magnechu said:
Such an ignorant comment! This is what separates the good players from the bad players: the good players don't care what deck they play. If it's the best deck and they feel most comfortable with it, then you play it. Some examples: I think Torterra/Sceptile was the play for Nationals last year, but I didn't have enough experience with it so I went with the Gardy list I had been testing. Similar for Worlds, I know Jason didn't think Gardy was the best deck, but he played it anyway. Don't not play a deck because it's the best deck-don't play a deck because you don't feel comfortable playing it. The only player who consistenly does well with rogue decks, as Chuck once said, is Jimmy Ballard.
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that is what I do now, I don't feel comfortable with Dusknoir or Torterra/Sceptile or Obama so I play with my Kingdra that I am used to and I do well with it.

I say if your doing well with your deck don't change it for the next tournament unless a new set comes out.
 
i like burdn of a day said:
well, to me if a player is ranked extremely high and they used the BDIF to get there, i dont think they deserve to be one of the best. if you play the BDIF once just to win some cards, then make a good rogueish deck and win with it, then your a good player.
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http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=80515

Magnechu said:
Such an ignorant comment! This is what separates the good players from the bad players: the good players don't care what deck they play. If it's the best deck and they feel most comfortable with it, then you play it. Some examples: I think Torterra/Sceptile was the play for Nationals last year, but I didn't have enough experience with it so I went with the Gardy list I had been testing. Similar for Worlds, I know Jason didn't think Gardy was the best deck, but he played it anyway. Don't not play a deck because it's the best deck-don't play a deck because you don't feel comfortable playing it. The only player who consistenly does well with rogue decks, as Chuck once said, is Jimmy Ballard.
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QFT
 
Pay attention to EVERYTHING and know the game. Example I was at cities the other day and was playing against a Dusknoir deck with my Kingdra deck. I took a HUGE early game start and took like four prizes before my opponent could even get one. During this match my opponent had out a Lumineon and had Dark Palmed my Claydol. I used Roseanne's to grab an Uxie thinking I'd use it next turn to draw more cards than I would now. He used Fin luster to lock it in place and start sniping my Kingdras. I couldn't get an energy to retreat and send out a Kingdra to end the game.
My deck build was MUCH better than his, it was this one mistake that cost me my match. Knowing about and remembering to play around things like that is what makes a player good.
 
I don't even like the term 'misplay' or the thought that someone can play a game perfectly. Every action has a million choices, and what someone deems the 'right play' could be the absolutely wrong play if they knew what was in the opponent's hand, or knew what they would draw next turn. Because of that, I don't feel there is a black and white 'play' and 'misplay', but instead a huge area of gray 'decent' and 'stupid' plays.

I believe luck plays the biggest role in who is deemed 'the best in the game'. I think there is a certain point where people either play correctly or play incorrectly and after that luck controls how well the players do. I know there will be people that disagree with my view of it, but in all the years I've played, I can remember many more times where I've been knocked out of the Top Cut or lost a crucial game because of a bad matchup, or a lack of supporters/draw than times where I didn't do well because I made stupid moves.

I can't control it if I don't draw into a supporter after 10 turns, and I can't control it when I get paired up with a deck that has a certain attack that can pretty much guarantee their win against my deck. Those things are out of my control and are 99% of the reason (in my opinion) why I don't do as well.

What I feel doesn't put shame to those that have done well, though. Those players had to have plenty of skill to get to where they did, and they should definitely feel proud of themselves.
 
my play has improved greatly in the last 5 months, and it's due to playing better players, more premier play, not being afraid to use quality net decks and make them my own, having a lot of experience with my decks (don't tear them down or alter them greatly just because you lost once or twice).

and saying don't misplay is a given. that's just saying don't make a mistake, which is obvious advice in anything that people do. a better way to say it would be to say take your time, within what's allowed, so that you do not make as many errors.
 
I haven't seen much posted in this thread about the extreme importance of metagaming. In addition to having a good idea of what decks are being played by the Pokemon community as a whole, it is even more important to get as good of a handle on what your particular area is playing as possible-- not necessarily so you can tech wildly against the metagame, but so you can be prepared to deal with it and so that you have more info available to base your deck choice off of.

Something else that I find useful is becoming familiar with what every card in the format does. It may sound 'extreme' and unrealistic, as well as largely useless, to go through the entire Modified-legal Card-dex, memorizing what every single card does, and that actually is not what I'm saying. You can eliminate a large portion of those cards (probably upwards of 90%) based on the criteria "Likely to actually see in a tournament." Is Lickylicky really going to show up at Cities? Is Night Pokemon Center? Purugly? Rival? Seaking? There is no reason why those would ever show up anywhere in anyone's deck, so they aren't things you need to be aware of. Going over uncommon yet potentially playable cards-- especially things that you know people may be running as crucial techs-- is the main thing to do here. It is important because it takes away the surprise factor when your opponent does drop them against you, and you aren't stuck in an ignorant state. Not being flabbergasted when you face a rogue or simply uncommon deck, or a certain tech in the more prevalent archetypes-- and thus, a deck or tech you have little to no experience playtesting against-- is crucial, and a broad survey of the card pool helps with this. For example, you can go deck-by-deck and make a list of all the variations you can think of that it might play:

Dusknoir: Lumineon, Cresselia lv. X, Abomasnow, Gengar (ugh-- but it still may be seen), Bronzong, Azelf lv. X (Sceptile stuff should keep this in mind), Exeggutor, any combination of the Dusknoirs (and of course you should assume they're running the DP one until you find out otherwise, as Magnechu illustrated), Ampharos, etc.

Kingdra: Alakazam, Uxie lv. X, Mesprit, Spiritomb, Metagross, Lunatone, Cresselia lv. X, Dusknoir DP, etc.

Playtesting is also probably the single most potent method a person has of improving as a player. Nothing beats the real deal. Theory and mental planning are important, but if they aren't ever put to the test, all those abstractions do not add up to anything. Good playtesting involves good lists on both sides as well as at least one good player (the person trying to get better is 'allowed' to not be so good because the whole point of playtesting is to change this and as long as his opponent is solid and he is learning while playing him/her, he should benefit).
 
Magnechu said:
I've seen a bunch of these threads in the past few years, and I think realized a few weeks ago something that, however small, is a huge thing: people don't know their own decklists.

I'm amazed with how many people I ask what their list looks like and they say "well I run 2 or 3 of these, actually maybe only 1." Not just for 1 or 2 cards, but for a lot of them. If you don't know your list by heart, you're never going to win. I could recite decklist after decklist, even some from years ago. You have to know your deck and be comfortable with it-it's the same with any other competitive game or sport. If a baseball player doesn't know the feel of his glove, than he will not be very successful.

And for people who think they have to sit down and stare at your list to memorize it, I don't really think that's it either. If you play even a few games with it you should pick up exactly what is in the deck-even if you have never seen the list on paper. This leads to my next point, which is calculating opponent's decklists.

In a swiss round it's harder to do, but in matchplay definitely, good players, at the end of their game(s) could write down probably 90% of their opponent's decklist. That's what it takes-you have to use the information you know and make educated guesses to how many of each card your opponent plays. A simple example is playing vs Dusknoir. You figure they run the DP Dusknoir so you 3 bench. I played against a Dusknoir deck a few weeks ago and I did this, only to see Dusknoir SF1, SF2, Promo, and Lv. X come out. After I saw the last Dusknoir came out I immediately filled my bench. Things like this, but on a much more acute and subtle scale are necessary to become a great player.

Another example of that was watching Ross play one of the Brander brothers at Worlds. Ross guessed almost his exact list after playing the other Brander brother earlier in the day, and was able to use that information and almost win because he knew how many Energy, etc. he played.

So, in conclusion, know your decklist and make educated guesses on your opponent's list, and you will be successful.
Click to expand...

Wow, great post, and SO true! :D
 
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