The Finer Points

Discussion in 'Compendium Notices' started by bulbasnore, Oct 21, 2008.

  1. bulbasnore

    bulbasnore Administrator Staff Member

    Over the course of the season, Team Compendium, the PTOs and judges at big events often hear directly from the POP leadership on how the game should be played; those rulings are often put into place for big events, such as National Championships or Worlds. At my Battle Roads, I found myself coaching my players on some of these rulings so that they would be ready to compete in big events. As I travelled this fall, I collected these rulings into a document. This collection was recently submitted to the Rules Team and POP for review. After a few changes, we created the Q/A you find in the document below. Enjoy.

    Your discard pile can be organized or sorted, but not separated into more than one pile
    Q.*** Can I separate my discard pile in two stacks to make it easier to count energy?
    A. *** No, you have to have a single neatly stacked discard pile. You may sort or turn cards neatly in that pile if it helps the game go more quickly, but they must all be touching.

    Your deck cannot be placed ’sideways’ but your discard pile can (this one hurt, because I love a sideways deck, but I’ll live!)
    Q.*** I like to keep my deck and discard pile sideways to help me keep them separate from my bench. Is that OK?
    A.*** Your deck must be oriented vertically, to avoid revealing information during handling or cuts. You may turn your discard pile ’sideways’, to help you distinguish it from your bench.

    You can use RPS cards, but you can’t randomize your choice of card (or throw).
    Q.*** Is it OK to roll a dice to randomize my Rock-Paper-Scissors choice?
    A.*** No. R-P-S is a game of strategy. You must not appear to be randomizing your choice by any method.

    Your RPS cards MUST have the word rock, paper or scissors printed on them; dice are not allowed at all!
    Q. I found some cool cards and dice to indicate my throw in Rock-Paper-Scissors. Can I use them?
    A.*** You may not use dice to indicate your choice, as it is to easy to manipulate the dice while it is covered. The requirements for R-P-S cards are that they must have identical backs, that they clearly say “Rock” or “Paper” or “Scissors” on the front and that all themes on the cards be appropriate for a Pokemon Event as determined by the Head Judge.

    RPS should be 1-2-3-throw, not 1-2-throw (again, not how we do it where I’m from, but we’ll adjust!)
    Q. *** Is Rock-Paper-Scissors played by pumping my arm 2 times then throwing my choice, or pumping 3 times then throw?
    A.*** Players should agree on this between themselves before playing. If they can’t agree, the default to be used will be a three-count priming and then the simultaneous throw of the choice, for example, “Rock-Paper-Scissors-Shoot” with the choice thrown on “shoot”.

    You can’t use codes or deception in your notes. Your notes must be open/readable by your opponent
    Q.*** Can I take notes in code or make deceptive notes during a match?
    A.*** Per the tournament rules, your notes must be taken timely, restricted to changes in game state and open to review by the other player. Codes hinder both review and timeliness, because you have to explain them to the opponent. Of course, dubious game actions intended to deceive the opponent may earn a disqualification for unsporting conduct (i.e. no deceptive notes).

    The rulings above, in our standard Q/A format, have been uploaded to the Compendium LvX. We are still waiting on a batch of card rulings from previous questions; thanks for your patiences. Meantime, we’re beginning to work on Storm Front rulings for the cards that have been previewed by PUI. Also, note that the index in the online version has been fixed so that it accommodates all the current entries; it was previously cut off after entry 200.


    Visit original post on Compendium site...
     
  2. Pokeplayer

    Pokeplayer New Member

    thanks Bulbasnore....

    These will help out many players!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumb:
     
  3. Serebii1997J

    Serebii1997J New Member

    Great work on this. It will certainly help more people.
     
  4. neb27

    neb27 New Member

    good job. this will help so many people to stop making placement mistakes.lol
     
  5. Diaz

    Diaz New Member

    Are all of these rules in the compendium already. They should be.

    I've heard of pleople being penalized at major events for rearanging the discard pile, because it meant that judges couldnt go back and have a rough history of the game in case of dispute. I'm glad to see this ruling here.

    Can I have all the cards on my bench sideways to prevent the mixing of my deck and bench. Unlike active pokemon, there are no gameplay actions that would otherwise cause the bench cards to be sideways, so it wouldnt interphere with the game.

    May I randomly choose RPS moves at home, memorize them, then use them in an event?
    What constitutes random? If I make a computer program which uses the 3rd diget of the time in seconds (the same thing apprentice uses for coin flips) to "randomize" my rps throw would that be legal, because it isnt technically random its just playing throwing something different based on the time of day.
    I know that I couldnt use this program durring the event but could I memorize them at home and then use them in an event.
    Could I memorize numbers from a stock market ticker and use that to generate a "random" throw?
    Could I use the number of cards left in my deck to generate a RPS throw? Surely that isn't really random?
    What inspiration can I use to determin a RPS throw.
    Can I watch someone else's games and use thier sequence of RPS throws.(For example, Joson Klaczynski's series of throws in the finals of Worlds)
    If my opponent breaks the rules and randomly throws for RPS, and then I use whatever they used last for every RPS past the first. Can I be penalized?(I am playing random moves after all.)
    I contend that coming up with an RPS throw in one's head is randomization. I f you disagree, then tell me what move I'm thinking right now. Do you think you have better than a one in three chance?

    What if I am in the juniors age groups and my opponent doesnt know how to read yet?
    I can't take notes out loud because using a tape recorder would be an electronic device which is against the rules,

    Just running this up the flagpole to see who salutes...
     
  6. BloodDraek

    BloodDraek New Member

    If you can't read you probably won't be playing pokemon Frankie. I mean how often is this event going to come up that it is going to be a huge problem.
     
  7. Diaz

    Diaz New Member

    I've seen players play (and win (alot)) without being able to read.
     
  8. trog

    trog New Member

    Actually we have a player that plays at most of our tournaments that is four and she can't read. She is a pretty good player by the way.
     
  9. Muscovy Level X

    Muscovy Level X New Member

    Thanks! Good idea to have the basics put up.
     
  10. charchar

    charchar New Member

    oh, alot of new suttf :O
    this will help alot of poeple
     
  11. bulbasnore

    bulbasnore Administrator Staff Member

    I'll bite... :lol::nonono::tongue: because I'm bold or at least my replies are

    There's a reason I think of most of this stuff as 'the finer points' but that doesn't matter. Really what we're trying to do here is prepare players to excel at the big events, without being tripped up by 'the finer points'. You can mock it or run it to logical absurdity as much as you want, its still going to be easier to just steer clear, if you're trying to win & have fun.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2008
  12. Dragon100

    Dragon100 New Member

    thx bulbasnore for the updates.im looking forward towards your next podcast on the gym
     
  13. octillery49

    octillery49 New Member

    What happens then if me and my opponet are playing rps. I say: Rock-Paper-Scissors-Shoot.
    My opponent just says rock-paper-scissors. We both throw our hand signs, but he throws first since
    he said it wrong. What is a judge supposed to do?
     
  14. bulbasnore

    bulbasnore Administrator Staff Member

    What's a judge to do!? Good question!

    If its me?
    1. Listen to your explanation when you call me over.
    2. Determine you mis-timed the throws.
    3. Have you throw again with the default method.
    4. Write you both a caution/warning, depending on tier, for failing to agree on game state (and to track potential shenanigans).
    5. Tell you to have a nice match and enjoy the tournament.
    Thanks. Setting up now for Storm Front: art, collectors value & metagame impact. Nov 3. So far, 'Pop & ryanvergel are on board... more to come!
     
  15. Lucario EX

    Lucario EX Moderator<br>Fanfic Contest Host

    Probably the judge would tell you to decide when to throw and then replay. Can't say that every single judge will do this at every single event, of course.
     
  16. Rainbowgym

    Rainbowgym New Member

    I have a nice one, which leaded to much discussions among "experienced" players.

    When time is called, and the active player finished it's turn, the judge is the one who determinates the outcome.
    So leave you cards on the table, it's not up to the players at that point to decide who won/lost. (not even the experienced ones).
     
  17. doomsday24

    doomsday24 Member

    This is great to have, I will be printing this out to have with me for my tournaments.

    This is the only one that I do and will be the toughest to stop doing lol. Though, I only play the deck sideways and not the discard pile. To me it makes it easier NOT to reveal information when I draw, but thems the breaks. :wink:

    Luckily I judge a LOT more than I play, so I have lots of time to get out of the habit. :biggrin:
     
  18. bulbasnore

    bulbasnore Administrator Staff Member

    Not that I recall or can find anywhere. We do tell the players to call a judge if they're still playing at time. However, that is just an insurance measure against players not noticing or mishandling the end of round.

    Easier not to reveal info to the opponent. However, as I understand POP's concern, they don't want players being able to get information from cards during handling of their own deck.
     
  19. stevo0236

    stevo0236 New Member

    ugg im going to have trouble not putting my deck sideways
     
  20. EeveeLover

    EeveeLover Member Services Administrator

    Thanks for putting this all together. I am gonna print a copy for this weekend to give to my new Judges for a good, fast reference.
     

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