The legality of Playtcgme and Bebes search websites??
- Thread starter JohnnyBlaze
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vaporeon
Moderator
That is true but technically it is a simulator, just not the one some of us would like. PlayTCG is just better for play testing.
They can still try to sue but they have to prove damages to something other then their ego. If they can prove that PlayTCG or other pokemon simulators hurt their sales they the owners of PlayTCG do not have to shut down. Its deemed fan service for the community and is protected by Fair Use.
Cyrus
Iron Chef - Master Emeritus
Simulator or not, it features their images. TPCi could get the images taken down from both PlayTCG and Pokebeach if they really wanted to. The only sort of simulator that really perseveres in the face of these claims is one that doesn't use card images, such as Apprentice or Reshark.
Hikari_Netto
Member
Yes, the majority of Bushiroad's operations are out of Singapore and Japan. They only recently opened an office in Los Angeles to further support their products and organized play in North America.
FirestormXVI
Member
None of what you have said is true.
I was going to say this too, then I realised I'm wrong - they do have to prove damages to (successfully) sue for damages. They don't need to prove damages to shut the sites down, but they also don't have to sue to do so, and vaporeon's two posts on the matter are all in the context of how a suit would go.
The part about Fair Use is wrong though, duplicating an entire game including all art assets doesn't fall under Fair Use.
Even those still use the intellectual property of TPCi/Creatures.
Cyrus
Iron Chef - Master Emeritus
^You're absolutely right that they do, because the information on the cards is used to play the game. However, Apprentice at its face stays safe because it doesn't technically mimic any game - it just lets you make other games. It's just as easy to make a deck of playing cards and do 1-on-1 Poker as it is to play Pokemon.
Is that too much of an infringement? Probably not; otherwise it would've been shut down over a decade ago.
Is that too much of an infringement? Probably not; otherwise it would've been shut down over a decade ago.
vaporeon
Moderator
Well, TPC can issue a shut down order on all of those if they feel its a threat to the success of PTCGO. Those other simulators mimic the game perfectly and have less glitches then PTCGO. The main issue with PTCGO is there are a ton of glitches and weird card interactions, its far too bloated and not a lot of computers can run it (you need a gaming computer to play it) and newer computers running intel HD graphics 3000 and 4000 have a hard time running it and requires you to have dedicated video memory and its a pay to play game, plus its SUPER hard to trade for what you want because of all the insane trades people ask for. I have the cards in real life and dont want to "pay" for them again.
As a competitive player, I choose PlayTCG because everything is given to me up front. PTCGO should be a extension to the real life counterpart like PlayTCG kind of like how Pokemon Dream World is to the BW series.
To add to this. Its also in their best interest to not make the community mad. Sites like these prove a very strong community and to take that way means you lose a lot of players and customers. That would be a very good way to kill of their brand.
As a competitive player, I choose PlayTCG because everything is given to me up front. PTCGO should be a extension to the real life counterpart like PlayTCG kind of like how Pokemon Dream World is to the BW series.
To add to this. Its also in their best interest to not make the community mad. Sites like these prove a very strong community and to take that way means you lose a lot of players and customers. That would be a very good way to kill of their brand.
Shaymin Of The Skies
<a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=
Thread's over guys. Pure genius at it's finest. :thumb:
Anyways, I honestly think that if PlayTCGme was shut down I'd have to stop buying cards for good. I may not even use the site anymore, but it's just the principle of it. I don't want to support something so destructive to its own community. I mean sure, they may lose some tournament attendance because of PTCGme, I'm not denying that. There are certainly cons to its existence. However, I think that as a whole, community projects like it and PokeGym/Beach do nothing more than good for the game. The TCG itself is a game built off of a community -- Without one cards are nothing but pretty little cardboard. To shut down a large (popular) project like this, then, would be like shutting down a large part of the TCG itself.
I don't know, there's probably something horribly wrong with my outlook, but it's just another viewpoint to consider.
psychup2034
New Member
Testing against yourself is one of the best ways to improve at the game. It helps you think about the game from both sides of the matchup, and it's almost like you're learning tips and tricks of playing 2 decks at once. The fact that PTCGO doesn't allow you to test against yourself is a major weakness from a competitive player's standpoint.
While I agree with this, part of the difficulty with playing against yourself is that you have knowledge of both sides of the board. Much of the strategy of the games comes from the fact that much of the knowledge is hidden to one or both players. Knowing that your opponent has a key card prized might cause you to play more aggressively. When playing both sides you know if a key card is prized, whereas playing against a real person requires you to deduce from their actions what they have and do not have. This is why Pokemon--unlike chess--is a game that is difficult to improve at when playing against yourself. Here's an example:
You have an N in your hand. You need a hand refresh, but you're not desperate for one having time and resources to continue for a few turns. You could play the N, but if playing against a real opponent you don't know what is in his or her hand. True, you can make educated guesses based on their plays. In the game against yourself, you know that your "opponent" has a Juniper in hand. Knowing this takes away a lot of the tension about playing N since you know that your opponent has a hand refresh card whether you play yours or not.
Playing the Pokemon TCG against yourself is like playing hide and seek against yourself.
Otaku
Active Member
Copyright law is confusing mess. I am not the type to buck the law just for fun, but this isn't some concept clearly spelled out by the natural law. Tolerating the many websites and programs that technically infringe upon intellectual property rights tends to make things easier on your customer; and you can't acknowledge this because of the legal quagmire you will inevitably find yourself in at a future date if you do.
At this juncture, I believe it is in the best interest of those who control the Pokémon TCG and brand to continue as they have been. Don't forget that if they go all "Disney" and shut this stuff down, they are not only going to have to spend a lot of resources going after all such things and not just the most brazen, they diminish enjoyment of existing product and they create more of a demand for other product.
Pokémon will always have a place in my heart, but if as a corporate entity "it" wants to remove the tools I have available to help me spend time writing about the game (which even when critical of the game still helps to promote it overall)... well that frees up a lot of my time. I love toying with ideas for my own TCGs, and it is a regular thing my friends and I talk about. Producing one in real life isn't easy, but if you can find a programmer that enjoys this kind of thing, even making a "virtual TCG" as a hobby release is pretty reasonable. Considering shutting down the fan-made programs frees up and "motivates" a few such programmers...
...I mean as freeware, for the record (harder to get a "real" game going). I have to wonder if Pokémon really wants that; even more rivals for online TCG play, but ones that don't help promote their product in the slightest. It doesn't take one game to rule them all... but dozens or hundreds of fan projects that each attract a small following add up.
Yes, it is difficult, but overcoming that difficulty is why it proves so useful. You can either allow one or both sides to make plays with full knowledge of the other, or you can learn how to play as if you didn't know (RPG players often have to do this when their player has information their character does not... and acting on it will bring about the wrath of the GM even if you don't care about staying in character).
Both develop important skills.
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psychup2034
New Member
No, it's not.
When I test against myself, I always make plays as if I didn't know what the other "player" is holding in their hand. Thinking through "what would I actually do if I had no knowledge of my opponent's hand" versus "what would I do now that I know what's in my opponent's hand" helps me think more critically about my plays. As long as your honest with yourself about what plays you would've made if you didn't have knowledge of the other "player's" hand, you can get a lot out of solitaire.
Even when other people are available to test online, I often test a couple games against myself. I think a lot of insights I get into deckbuilding and making the right play come from the sessions where I test against myself. I play against other people mostly to get insights into what other people are including in their lists and for the social interaction.
If you find it "difficult to improve at [playing Pokemon] when playing against yourself," then solitaire may not be for you. However, I know several top-level players that test against themselves frequently to improve at the game.
My point, though, is that when you ask yourself "what would I actually do if I had no knowledge of my opponent's hand" you have already admitted to having that knowledge. It's not an insurmountable obstacle to overcome. Apparently you are better than I am at it, and that's ok. I'll get there some day. :thumb:
The other thing that you have to keep in mind, though, is that others play differently from you. Pokemon is still a game against two different people. While you can prepare for everything you would do in the situation and try to find the optimal play, there's a possibility that your opponent will make a sub-optimal play (or come up with a better play).
Again, I agree with you that there is serious value in playing against yourself. However the value depends on "you" and definitely shouldn't be the only method of testing.
Anyway, sorry for derailing the thread. Back to the topic at hand... Well everyone else has already said what I would have had to say. In my experience TPCi has been willing to turn a blind eye to things like this until someone asks them an overt question. In this case, its really better just not to ask.
They do not have to prove anything. They need merely send a letter to the owner of the sites and he would be forced to shut them down. In the words of Pokepop on a related issue "fansites such as xxx are not run in such a way that they generate tons of cash. If we receive a cease and desist order, we'll comply. To do otherwise is to face bankruptcy". This is the reality of what happens when big companies sue individuals.
I'm giving a big thank you to Bebessearch. The whole thing started with a Pokedad that was frustrated making up decklists every week for he and his 3 kids. Other programs at the time didn't allow you to save your list and have it be accessible from the web (giving the ability go to the hotel lobby and print your lists or at a friends house, etc).
He programmed this in his own time. Took quite awhile. Then he found that his kids wanted to test out a variety of decks. His wife was upset about having boxes of cards around the house. He didn't like having to proxy up a bunch of decks for the whole family. So he came up with the idea of having a website that would allow you to test and practice with your saved decklists. You could test and easily swap out cards at will. This was something meant to be very casual and let you stay connected with your test group friends. It took a LONG time to program. As in years. The Pokedad has offered his expertise to TPCi and was/is willing to help them in anyway. In my mind these resources are very different than PTCGO and have very little overlap in their intent and function.
I am not that Pokedad but I know him well. That said, I will not presume to speak for him at all. These are my observations and opinions. If PTCGO offered the same resources as Playtcg.me, my guess is the Pokedad would pull the plug on playtcg and shut it down himself. It is a huge unrewarded imposition on his family time to care and feed the site let alone provide ongoing customer support. Yet he does it all quietly without complaint to help the global Pokemon community.
I think TPCi is secure enough to differentiate fansites that are out for themselves and may be financially exploiting the Pokemon brand from those that are a thankless helper to Pokemon and expand TCG participation.
I can think of no better example of a dad trying to help his kids and the broader Pokemon community. Poke-charity if you will. And rather than call him out, I will shout out a simple "THANK YOU!"
He programmed this in his own time. Took quite awhile. Then he found that his kids wanted to test out a variety of decks. His wife was upset about having boxes of cards around the house. He didn't like having to proxy up a bunch of decks for the whole family. So he came up with the idea of having a website that would allow you to test and practice with your saved decklists. You could test and easily swap out cards at will. This was something meant to be very casual and let you stay connected with your test group friends. It took a LONG time to program. As in years. The Pokedad has offered his expertise to TPCi and was/is willing to help them in anyway. In my mind these resources are very different than PTCGO and have very little overlap in their intent and function.
I am not that Pokedad but I know him well. That said, I will not presume to speak for him at all. These are my observations and opinions. If PTCGO offered the same resources as Playtcg.me, my guess is the Pokedad would pull the plug on playtcg and shut it down himself. It is a huge unrewarded imposition on his family time to care and feed the site let alone provide ongoing customer support. Yet he does it all quietly without complaint to help the global Pokemon community.
I think TPCi is secure enough to differentiate fansites that are out for themselves and may be financially exploiting the Pokemon brand from those that are a thankless helper to Pokemon and expand TCG participation.
I can think of no better example of a dad trying to help his kids and the broader Pokemon community. Poke-charity if you will. And rather than call him out, I will shout out a simple "THANK YOU!"
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TrainerEnjay
New Member
Testing something on play tcg makes me want to buy the cards in real life if successful. i assume this is the case for more ppl than just me. It helps Nintendo in sales. Nintendo should b thankful for the free advertising.
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