The Captain
New Member
wow have you noticed bluffing is part of every other game that requires thinking. It just adds another level of skill to the game. Because believe it or not to or not creating a good believable bluff takes skill.
Tricky vs. Deceptive Behavior (updated 2/12)
- Thread starter Rogue Archetype
- Start date
wow have you noticed bluffing is part of every other game that requires thinking. It just adds another level of skill to the game. Because believe it or not to or not creating a good believable bluff takes skill.
Lucario EX
Moderator<br>Fanfic Contest Host
That's not a bluff, that's an outright lie. And therefore against the rules.
If you get away with it, and I have no doubts that someone of your expertise might be able to, have fun cheating. The players who can win honestly will always have more skill.:thumb:
Chairman Kaga
Active Member
Have you noticed that you're not playing poker? Pokemon is not a game of wagering on incomplete information. There is no need for bluffing except to deceive your opponent into misplays, something that violates both the Spirit of the Game and the tournament floor rules.
If you can't win on the merits of your deck and your ability to play it effectively, then you don't deserve to win.
The Captain
New Member
thats why pokemon players are trash. Honesty is not the equivelent of skill. An honest player and a skilled player are not the same thing. It's BS like this and "spirit of the game" that a completly rediculous card game. Pokemon needs to take some ideas from other card games or have not noticed that the majority of highly competitive pl,ayers are at least in their teens and sdon't keed to be kiddied like this.
Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:
Poker, magic, yugioh, chess, bridge. My examples were over the top, but any non verbal things work in all these games. This game needs to embrace those ideals
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Chairman Kaga
Active Member
If it results in more players like yourself, then please, let's not. Take your elitist rage elsewhere.
I treat the Pokemon Trading Card Game like a sport. You think that there is SOOOOOOO much for you to get away with, but there are plenty of people watching the game, as well as the judge.
When you first play the game, you honestly know next to nothing. If you enter an event, such as S/P/Ts, you have no idea what you are doing, which can lead to reading the cards wrong, such as RA's Poke Radar mishap, but there are things that the New Player isn't aware of, such as recent rulings. The Judge does encourage players to read the rulings in the Compendium, but the new player has no idea what it is. Then you get penalized and disqualified for doing the wrong thing, such as Shaymin's Seed Flare and Sceptile's Wild Growth.
(This has actually happened to me)
Anyways, back to the sport comment. The players outnumber the judge, that is the deceptive player's first point, and he ends up like a little kindergarten class pulling pranks on the teacher. If you outnumber them, the common belief for, the deceptive player, is that they can't do anything to stop you.
I also relate behavior towards video games, especially the hand-held Pokemon games. Sure there are some times when the play seems very deceptive, but those plays end up getting banned in actual events. These plays include Hacking stats with Action Replays or Game Sharks. The game is SMARTER then you, and it knows you are being bad. But there is nothing wrong with being Tricky in the games, such as "reading the opposition's mind". This includes sending in a ground Pokemon into an Earthquake attack, when the opposition was expecting a flying Pokemon.
There honestly needs to be some way prevent cheating aspects of the game. I personally think that there should be more involvement from the judges, as well as the Professors that aren't participating.
When you first play the game, you honestly know next to nothing. If you enter an event, such as S/P/Ts, you have no idea what you are doing, which can lead to reading the cards wrong, such as RA's Poke Radar mishap, but there are things that the New Player isn't aware of, such as recent rulings. The Judge does encourage players to read the rulings in the Compendium, but the new player has no idea what it is. Then you get penalized and disqualified for doing the wrong thing, such as Shaymin's Seed Flare and Sceptile's Wild Growth.
(This has actually happened to me)
Anyways, back to the sport comment. The players outnumber the judge, that is the deceptive player's first point, and he ends up like a little kindergarten class pulling pranks on the teacher. If you outnumber them, the common belief for, the deceptive player, is that they can't do anything to stop you.
I also relate behavior towards video games, especially the hand-held Pokemon games. Sure there are some times when the play seems very deceptive, but those plays end up getting banned in actual events. These plays include Hacking stats with Action Replays or Game Sharks. The game is SMARTER then you, and it knows you are being bad. But there is nothing wrong with being Tricky in the games, such as "reading the opposition's mind". This includes sending in a ground Pokemon into an Earthquake attack, when the opposition was expecting a flying Pokemon.
There honestly needs to be some way prevent cheating aspects of the game. I personally think that there should be more involvement from the judges, as well as the Professors that aren't participating.
paint panic
New Member
I couldn't disagree more. When you send a 70HP Pokemon up against a Kingdra, aren't you wagering that they don't have a PlusPower in their hand? When you Power Cancel a Cosmic Power, aren't you wagering that they don't have a more beneficial power to use in their hand? There are plenty of decisions to be made in Pokemon based on what your opponent may or may not have in their hand at the time.
Most of the time, you don't know going into a match whether or not your opponent is running Power Spray. If your opponent asks you to wait while he makes a decision after you use a Power, you still don't know whether or not your opponent is running Power Spray. Every good player should know that once three SP Pokemon hit the board, Power Spray is a possibility.
edit: corrected number of SP Pokemon
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The Captain
New Member
Whats wrong with me... I play the game to win. I care more about winning than my opponents feelings. Cry me a river. Welcome to competition if you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen cause its only gonna get hotter.
Even better players know that once three SP Pokemon hit the board that Power Spray is a possibility.
The Captain
New Member
Havew you noticed that in sports, as long as you don't swear you can say what ever you want, have you noticed the point is to throw people off their game. The plays football players run, the audibles they call are all about decption. The thing is good players play around that. I'm not advocting doing things gthat should be illeagal stacking, holo shuffeling ect. But bluffing shouldn't be illeagal. And plus how do you proove it... good luck
Lucario EX
Moderator<br>Fanfic Contest Host
What does being a Professor have to do with anything?
vietgamer1021
New Member
agreed, however cheating and other extreme forms of deceptive play i do not tolerate (hiding unown g under your pokemon), since it is outright disrespectable to the player, SOTG, pokemon, and (to those that think about themselves coughcough) yourselves.
however playing devils advocate (and my personal thoughts) it is utterly stupid to penalize a person holding a card SEEMING like they are going to power spray. Why cant they hold their cards that way? i assure you, if you make a player hold their cards a certain way for the rest of the game and get penalized for looking suspicious, then the players going to get really ****** off.
another situation on stating if card x (uxie in this case) is prized: i may say uxie is prized when i search thru my deck, which is TRUE, but that doesnt mean i dont have one in my hand or deck, but my statement is true when there is one prized. do a deck search, ill play 3 uxie, one will be prized and 2 will be in my hand, im not saying any lies
all in all, using the above tactics to trick your opponent is more or less under the standards of SOTG, but there are risks in playing pokemon (wondering if player a has card x in their hand to change your entire strategy) and using such tactics (if you will) can change the tables of a game. good players will not be affected by this, but just watch in a high level tourney, people start thinking differently in top cut games, and they think more. whether low tactics such as this will affect them or not, there is still a risk in pokemon where bluffing may your opponent think differently, your facial expression, your breathing, your eyes, they could tell different things, and you can never be sure if they have what you think they have.
it was a poor example, I will admit that.
But I used the Professors as a second eye in case they catch something the judge fails to miss.
Unless I'm misunderstanding the term "Professor", and thinking of it as someone who understands the game enough to operate an event. In that event, let me know that I am wrong.
Power spray added a new facet to the game, adding "counterspells" like Magic and WoW have, and Traps and such from Yugioh.
The problem is a lot of players play nothing but Pokemon, and as such have no experience with the (true) bluff.
If you can't bluff a Countercard, you can't play it effectively.
If I satisfy all variables known to both players, i.e. 3 sp pokemon in play and at least one card in hand, and I look at my hand and give a thought when they play a pokepower, that is bluffing, and making a choice, too, whether to play the spray or not. Whether or not I have it is irrelevant. If there are all 4 sprays is teh discard is irrelevant too, it is both players access to veiw it.
Acting like you're going to slam down the spray is over the top. Heck even pulling a card out is slightly OTT. Taunting your opponent with it is too much.
Saying to your opponent "I may have that spray" when they are deciding what to fetch or what to play, seems more helpful to my opponent than to me actually, since it makes them consider their move more. Whether I have the spray or not is still irrelevant, since the opponent will make whatever play he find most beneficial anyway.
The problem is a lot of players play nothing but Pokemon, and as such have no experience with the (true) bluff.
If you can't bluff a Countercard, you can't play it effectively.
If I satisfy all variables known to both players, i.e. 3 sp pokemon in play and at least one card in hand, and I look at my hand and give a thought when they play a pokepower, that is bluffing, and making a choice, too, whether to play the spray or not. Whether or not I have it is irrelevant. If there are all 4 sprays is teh discard is irrelevant too, it is both players access to veiw it.
Acting like you're going to slam down the spray is over the top. Heck even pulling a card out is slightly OTT. Taunting your opponent with it is too much.
Saying to your opponent "I may have that spray" when they are deciding what to fetch or what to play, seems more helpful to my opponent than to me actually, since it makes them consider their move more. Whether I have the spray or not is still irrelevant, since the opponent will make whatever play he find most beneficial anyway.
NoPoke
Active Member
It is quite simple
ANY non game action designed or intended to deceive the opponent is going to get the player noticed and quite possibly a penalty.
ANY non game action designed or intended to distract the opponent is going to get the player noticed and quite possibly a penalty.
Whenever you give out free information to the opponent make certain that it is truthfull and accurate.
If you want to bluff or feint then it has to be restricted to what the game play allows.
ANY non game action designed or intended to distract the opponent is going to get the player noticed and quite possibly a penalty.
Whenever you give out free information to the opponent make certain that it is truthfull and accurate.
If you want to bluff or feint then it has to be restricted to what the game play allows.
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Rogue Archetype
Moderator <br> Contest Host
I'd rethink my approach if I were you son.
You're showing, both, your youth and your ignorance with a broad statement such as "Pokemon Players are Trash."
Kid. The older you get, the more you'll understand how little you actually know....
FIRST.. read the ORIGINAL POST before you get all high-and-mighty about your little opinion.
Please don't think your limited understanding of the world is above and beyond ours.
Just because you lack the understanding of something does NOT mean that it is wrong or "trash."
The fact that you'd even make a case for operating outside the SOTG shows us that you have a limited understanding of SOTG and what makes it important/special.
1. YOU are a pokemon player. So, parading around like you're superior in intellect and wisdom while SIMULTANEOUSLY calling yourself trash is just silly...
2. One big goal of Pokemon TCG is to create a family-friendly, kid-friendly, FUN and NON-THREATENING atmosphere. If I want my 11 year old to play Poker ... I'll teach her!
(and I played semi-pro for 6 years... so ... let's not even go on that tangent... )
UNDERSTAND THIS PEOPLE:
POKEMON CANNOT BE COMPARED TO ANY OTHER GAME BECAUSE IT'S NOT INTENDED TO BE LIKE ANY OTHER GAME !!!
3. You're not the ONLY person on this board who plays OTHER games ... That assumption alone reveals how UNwise you truly are. :nonono:
It's always the ones with the biggest mouth that hastens to reveal their own ignorance.
JUST PLAY THE CARDS AND HAVE FUN.
How HARD is that to understand ??
The game is DESIGNED to have FUN.
It is not intended to DESTROY, belittle, berate, embarras or deminish your opponent.
You are not supposed to give ANYONE an INFERIORITY COMPLEX ...
If you CAN'T HANDLE playing Pokemon as intended because you think so many other games are 'better,' then carry your high-fluting butt over to the 'other' games and spare us your insults.
Dude.. let's reality check for a sec aiight?
Fall back ... really.
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Master Yoda
New Member
NO! show me one rule that say you can´t show your oppenent your hand ?
i´m very sure its allowed that you show your oppenent your hand out of nowhere!
Just like your deck isn't public knowledge a players hand isn't either. Unless you play something that lets you look of course.
homeofmew
Active Member
The bluffing post um how would this be done, isn't that stuff all in your oppenent's head or what? Unless you say something that makes your oppoent think you have power spray. JIMO TINA
I have many times my oppoenent did not do something cause they thought I had something and there was no reason I lead them to believe that.
I have many times my oppoenent did not do something cause they thought I had something and there was no reason I lead them to believe that.