Hey don't count KP and I_S out, Cabd.
I count both of them out, as the power structure as defined on 6p goes
Me--->(approved mods)--->(Approved co-mods)---->players
Werewolf Issue Resolution
- Thread starter Sandslash7
- Start date
I count both of them out, as the power structure as defined on 6p goes
Me--->(approved mods)--->(Approved co-mods)---->players
King Piplup
Active Member
Don't count us. It truly is cabd, cabd, cabd.
Did I just say that?
Did I just say that?
Benzo
Front Page News Editor<br>Forum Moderator
A game mod should be in control of the game of course. Having game mods that have experiance IMO with successful games and have had little to no issues should be considered for being leaders in a community for structure and rules with consequences when rules are broken. I do not think a vote is needed for a selection process- let history speak for itself. Establishing a foundation now before the next game is ideal, and reviews from time to time from the WW community should be in the effort to improve the over all atmosphere for the game with in this sites rules.
How other sites handle and do things- leave it there. There is no reason that this community here can not have it's own system that works here and not be reliant on what others are doing elsewhere.
Sorry that my last post I guess is confusing-
How other sites handle and do things- leave it there. There is no reason that this community here can not have it's own system that works here and not be reliant on what others are doing elsewhere.
Sorry that my last post I guess is confusing-
Benzo, you're a mod here, so I'm gonna ask some tough questions of you as a mod not as a player. This is stuff the site needs in order.
Define successful. Define "little to no issues." Is a game running to completion a success? Is a game that leaves one player unhappy a success? two players? Five? You've got to draw a hard line somewhere, so where?
If there is no vote, which I'm agreed with that voting isn't that great of an idea, there has to be some other criteria. Diaz obviously feels his input is not being held to the same level as other players'. Quite frankly, the history of this site is fragmented, as most of the "old school" players are gone.
Define foundation. Is the current panel of three a foundation, even though some users feel it does not represent them? If something does not come down with explicit approval from the people who run the site (mods) it's not going to be accepted by everyone on the basis of those players saying so. A king does not crown himself king without the support of those in power. Many a bloody war has been fought to prove that.
Did not the founders of the USA look towards other legal systems for a framework? There's nothing wrong with borrowing bits and pieces of other systems that work. If none of those options work, by all means reject them, but re-inventing the wheel isn't always the best path forward.
Whybe sorry? You brought up a valid point of view for a valid concern. I for one thank you for the input.
Sandslash7
<a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=
Eclipse ~ Excellent question.
Depends on the issue that occurs I believe.
Lets take for example the very issue that Jpulice noted: He believed that Pikamaster had compromised the game by altering replacements to benefit the wolves.
Since the mod's job is entirely to create a gaming environment that is fun and balance, regardless of what the players may think from their perspective, the likelihood of alterations on that scale to maliciously harm the Werewolf game is nigh-impossible.
My thoughts on the matter would be that Jpulice, had he thought that Pikamaster had compromised the game (and thus compromised Jpulice' in-game information [i.e. he had an "almost positive wolf read on DP and the replacement"]), should have requested modkill or replacement of his slot. However. He should NOT have said any mention of the reason why. The only thing he should have said was "I would like replacement or modkill of my slot for personal reasons (or something along those lines)." That way there would have been no "in-game" accusations of wolf or town alignment during the night (as Jpulice DID when he said that both DP and the replacement slot were wolves).
One post, no elaboration would have preserved the gamestate and quashed argumentation.
Now after the game Jpulice should have elaborated on WHY he did that, and bring up the fact about the replacements. He also would have been well within his rights to come to other WW moderators who were unbiased to investigate the situation from the outside and see if there was any wrongdoing, either after or during the game. (during might be the best course of action to be able to collect all of the data necessary, given the human penchant for deleting PMs or other things that you don't think you need.)
Depends on the issue that occurs I believe.
Lets take for example the very issue that Jpulice noted: He believed that Pikamaster had compromised the game by altering replacements to benefit the wolves.
Since the mod's job is entirely to create a gaming environment that is fun and balance, regardless of what the players may think from their perspective, the likelihood of alterations on that scale to maliciously harm the Werewolf game is nigh-impossible.
My thoughts on the matter would be that Jpulice, had he thought that Pikamaster had compromised the game (and thus compromised Jpulice' in-game information [i.e. he had an "almost positive wolf read on DP and the replacement"]), should have requested modkill or replacement of his slot. However. He should NOT have said any mention of the reason why. The only thing he should have said was "I would like replacement or modkill of my slot for personal reasons (or something along those lines)." That way there would have been no "in-game" accusations of wolf or town alignment during the night (as Jpulice DID when he said that both DP and the replacement slot were wolves).
One post, no elaboration would have preserved the gamestate and quashed argumentation.
Now after the game Jpulice should have elaborated on WHY he did that, and bring up the fact about the replacements. He also would have been well within his rights to come to other WW moderators who were unbiased to investigate the situation from the outside and see if there was any wrongdoing, either after or during the game. (during might be the best course of action to be able to collect all of the data necessary, given the human penchant for deleting PMs or other things that you don't think you need.)
Benzo
Front Page News Editor<br>Forum Moderator
Replies in bold. If you need clarification, feel free to say. I speak as a " site mod" on my own behalf as to how I speak for myself in reply to you, like you requested. As a player, very little of what I said would change to be honest.
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For clarity, I have chosen not to speak my details. I do not need to convince people what did or did not happen and as a matter of fact, what we need more is to put it all behind us and move on. Belaboring what happened and dredging up the past will only continue to allow this wound to fester.
Eclipse, for the record, I did ask for replacement (in PM), and I think it's safe to say both Pika and I did not handle the situation well after that. This will be as much as I plan to expand on the issue.
It wasn't meant as a personal jab! We're between games, so now's the time to establish a procedure in case this crops up again. That way, it'll make the governing body's job easier if something similar happens. Hopefully, no one will have to invoke this!
I think Sandslash's method of issue resolution is fine.
JewelQuest
New Member
I've been thinking on something, and I'd like to put out a suggestion before the next games starts.
The last few games have gone to factions that are not townie, mostly because of the disorder that they've been able to stir among the townies. If you think about it, townies don't have a super huge chance of winning. They do not know who is their enemies, so even their number is not a benefit, for they end up lynching more townies than any other faction.
I believe that we should give them a bit more information, through updates. I do not think that an update should contain all the happenings of a night, but should still give a tiny bit of information, so that townies can use it to try and find their allies. I do not believe that they should depend on the updates, such as we did mostly in AT's last game, but I do think that it should be a small source of information.
The last few games have gone to factions that are not townie, mostly because of the disorder that they've been able to stir among the townies. If you think about it, townies don't have a super huge chance of winning. They do not know who is their enemies, so even their number is not a benefit, for they end up lynching more townies than any other faction.
I believe that we should give them a bit more information, through updates. I do not think that an update should contain all the happenings of a night, but should still give a tiny bit of information, so that townies can use it to try and find their allies. I do not believe that they should depend on the updates, such as we did mostly in AT's last game, but I do think that it should be a small source of information.
SS7's game did give town information in the updates. We just were able to mislead you into ignoring it well enough to win regardless. This game is supposed to be about the informed minority vs the uninformed majority. Informing the majority defeats the point.
JewelQuest
New Member
That's true, he did a good job of putting just enough information that we could use it, but didn't depend on it. And you did a good job of misleading us then. I'm thinking more the last game.
And if the majority doesn't know anything, then how they going to win at all? They need some amount of information, even if its just a small bit.
The last game is an outlier not to be taken tooooo seriously in comparison to the new trend.
Pikamaster
Active Member
As previously stated, WWXVIII was created well before the meta thread. While LEX and I did attempt to keep it going a step forward, everything was finished when the meta thread was written and it would have taken months to rewrite the game. So as Cabd said, it should not be taken too seriously in comparison.
However, there is one thing. Werewolf is about an uninformed majority, correct? In the real-life version, the town gets no hints. Obviously online play differs, but most all of the town's play should be based solely on day talk. SF does this very, very well, and I'd suggest that people go read some of the games there (with discretion as it is not a PG forum). I played in a game there just last month and, with no information whatsoever, the town lynched a member of the mafia on day one without doing a random lynch. Werewolf isn't supposed to be giving the town hints. IMO, updates should contain little to no information that could divulge a wolf, other than maybe flavor for specific wolves when they perform a kill (see WW C). Obviously this is all at the moderator's discretion, but the town has been doing poorly due to an over-reliance on information roles.
JewelQuest
New Member
Hmm, I did not think of it that way before. I still think that a little more information would be nice, but I can see how it could turn against the town, as well as distract them from looking for hints among the actual players.
Yes, you're probably right. We've just come out of a period of games where we relied a lot on updates and information roles. Its actually probably for the best for us to learn how to actually scum hunt better than we have before.