JewelQuest
New Member
4 hours left.
I have almost no doubt that Scott is a wolf, and possibly Cantor. But I still think that Scott is the best lynch, or I would have switched my vote a bit ago.
Werewolf xvi the rise of team plasma: Town wins
- Thread starter Arcanine/Arbok Master
- Start date
4 hours left.
I have almost no doubt that Scott is a wolf, and possibly Cantor. But I still think that Scott is the best lynch, or I would have switched my vote a bit ago.
Think good points.
Reviewed my posts
Forgot to vote
Vote: Scottistru
<4 hours left
Today. No, bump.
JewelQuest
New Member
I think you are asking for a bump, so here it is.
PokeChampofPokeBeach
New Member
I've got to go bed soon, unfortunately. This is my final vote. I believe that we are making the right decision. I've done the research, I'm convinced Scott is our best lynch. If Scott is a wolf (which I believe him to be, I'm completely convinced of this), then Cantor is going to have a very difficult time defending himself. I was waiting for Cantor's research against Diaz, not surprisingly it didn't come.
And with that, I'm signing off for today.
And with that, I'm signing off for today.
@PCoPB. Didn't wait long enough. Notice I said I wouldnt be able to post until 11. Research took a bit of time.
Definition of lie from dictionary.com; to express what is false; convey a false impression. Notice this is under the verbal form of lie.
Places in which Diaz conveyed a false impression intentionally: 215, 230, 244, 247.
Places where people are taken in by this lie and Diaz does NOT correct them: 217, 224, 256.
Posts that he made which were bad/nonsensical in nature: 1286, 1291, 1297, 1301, 1317, 1336
1355
1355 was the post where he asked that everyone on the list name claim.
Proof that a wolf became more powerful with the death of a named enemy is in post 255.
Also PCoPB coming from someone who complained about Napoleon's lack of manners, it is strange that you would make sarcastic side-swipes like him.
I ask that a seer would seer me, check my role, whatever. Like I said, I will work with omega, or have him target me. I have nothing to hide. If you priest me or roleblock me and I show up in the update it will clear me. I look nothing like the team plasma goons.
Definition of lie from dictionary.com; to express what is false; convey a false impression. Notice this is under the verbal form of lie.
Places in which Diaz conveyed a false impression intentionally: 215, 230, 244, 247.
Places where people are taken in by this lie and Diaz does NOT correct them: 217, 224, 256.
Posts that he made which were bad/nonsensical in nature: 1286, 1291, 1297, 1301, 1317, 1336
1355
1355 was the post where he asked that everyone on the list name claim.
Proof that a wolf became more powerful with the death of a named enemy is in post 255.
Also PCoPB coming from someone who complained about Napoleon's lack of manners, it is strange that you would make sarcastic side-swipes like him.
I ask that a seer would seer me, check my role, whatever. Like I said, I will work with omega, or have him target me. I have nothing to hide. If you priest me or roleblock me and I show up in the update it will clear me. I look nothing like the team plasma goons.
Benzo
Front Page News Editor<br>Forum Moderator
@1585: How do you know that you don't look like the goons? You have seen them?
Why role-block you, seer you, suggest that the "omega" select you to work with him/her, and why would you be cleared if you are in the update?
Any one can be selected to be role-blocked, anyone can be in the up date, and the Omega would hopefully select a player that is not under so much scrutiny (I would hope). And preist you? Why? Protect you tonight? Protect you from what?
Why role-block you, seer you, suggest that the "omega" select you to work with him/her, and why would you be cleared if you are in the update?
Any one can be selected to be role-blocked, anyone can be in the up date, and the Omega would hopefully select a player that is not under so much scrutiny (I would hope). And preist you? Why? Protect you tonight? Protect you from what?
Son_of_Apollo
New Member
I'm have to agree with Cantor's logic; there's no way SS7 would act like that to a fellow wolf. He's way better than that. Very likely it's a trick. I SERIOUSLY SUGGEST YOU CONSIDER UNVOTING SCOTT. This is probably exactly what SS7 wanted. I've been saying for a while that Scott and PM were the most suspicious. Scott is highly unlikely.
VOTE: PMYSTERIOUS
VOTE: PMYSTERIOUS
Diaz
New Member
The early stuff was me being stupid. That is obvious. The bolded ones, however, you just disagree with. They aren't nonsensical.
Diaz
New Member
http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=2235867&postcount=255
I don't see what you see in post 255, but SS7 did get more powerful with Cabd's death. Idk where you're going with this.
DragonClyne725
New Member
I'll make a list to show the problem I have with this statement.
Options:
1. SS7 acted outwardly with a fellow wolf
Conclusion: Scott is a Wolf
2. SS7 knew that we would know that he would not act outwardly with a fellow wolf
Conclusion: Scott is a Townie being framed
3. SS7 knew that we would know that he knew that he would not act outwardly with a fellow wolf
Conclusion: Scott is a Wolf
...And so on and so forth. WIFOM!!!, if you don't know it, read about it now. You are using the second point above to try and defend Scottistru. It's not proof at all. It's all theorizing. You can't use theorizing to make an assumption like "so and so is not a wolf because a known wolf talked to him". Cool?
Even SS7 makes mistakes, he obviously made one when he posted that crystal ball thing. He might have thought it would have been a good idea to try to make Scott look good. Right now my vote goes to Scott.
Vote:Scottirisu
JewelQuest
New Member
Arcanine/Arbok Master
New Member
WAYNEGG HAS REPLACED REDADOS1!
CURRENT VOTE COUNT: (14 Votes for a Lynch)
jason - 2 (desufnoc, Thunderjolt)
WayneGG - 1 (Prohawk)
PMysterious- 2 (WayneGG, Son_of_Apollo)
Diaz - 2 (Napoleon, Cantor)
King Piplup - 1 (Akane)
Scottistru - 6 (JewelQuest, Jpulice, PokechampofPokeBeach, Pikamaster, TheKing, jellyfisher)
PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF I MISSED YOUR VOTE
CURRENT VOTE COUNT: (14 Votes for a Lynch)
jason - 2 (desufnoc, Thunderjolt)
WayneGG - 1 (Prohawk)
PMysterious- 2 (WayneGG, Son_of_Apollo)
Diaz - 2 (Napoleon, Cantor)
King Piplup - 1 (Akane)
Scottistru - 6 (JewelQuest, Jpulice, PokechampofPokeBeach, Pikamaster, TheKing, jellyfisher)
PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF I MISSED YOUR VOTE
DragonClyne725
New Member
It's just a cool description of what WIFOM is. Here's the main point:
"WIFOM is the circular reasoning that results from trying to determine the choices of an opponent who acted with full knowledge that their behavior would be subject to scrutiny."
"In situations ... one often may try to use what he knows of his opponent to make a better choice. However, in some cases this leads to recursive reasoning: "But that's just what he wants me to think, so I'll do the opposite. But maybe that's what he wants me to think, so I'll not do the opposite. But maybe that's what he wants me to think..."."
Diaz
New Member
WayneGG, gunna weigh in today? Looking forward to hearing from you this game! In general, I think this has been a sloppily played game all around. I expect you'll bring a strong logical personality to the game that we've been one short on so far.
Guys, it is my bed time. I welcome any seers or priests who want to target me, but I think it is more likely that I'll end up role and speech blocked again.
Omega, why don't you have PCPB help you seer? His role is pretty null now iirc. He can give out the info and leave you anonymous.
Btw, this is the second time I posted over 30 words. The first time I got a pm. After this I can't talk again for the rest of the day. These don't count as my warning for actually breaking the rules of the game.
Good night.
Guys, it is my bed time. I welcome any seers or priests who want to target me, but I think it is more likely that I'll end up role and speech blocked again.
Omega, why don't you have PCPB help you seer? His role is pretty null now iirc. He can give out the info and leave you anonymous.
Btw, this is the second time I posted over 30 words. The first time I got a pm. After this I can't talk again for the rest of the day. These don't count as my warning for actually breaking the rules of the game.
Good night.
First off, I would like to say, PCOPB, thank you for changing your mind. See how much you can offer the town when you don't worry about what others say?
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't your reasoning that Scott is unlikely to be a wolf also a WIFOM argument? Not that its a bad argument, but don't call out someone elses WIFOM if you are going to roll with the same type.
I think the attacking "liar" is a bit unnecessary and yes as Jewel pointed out, obsessive. I do not think it is a coincidence that Cantor and Napoleon agree with each other. I don't like the assumptions people are making about their same ideas because we have a high degree of confidence that Napoleon is town.
I am sad that we are not taking a closer look at Diaz, there are SO many mistakes that he has made in this game so far. I hope after today, that we continue to focus on him. So, I will throw out my list that I have been keeping just for the sake of keeping him out on the table.
1) Day 1 - Dishonesty. The FACT is he was dishonest. I don't care why and if it caused any harm or even helped, this has and probably will continue to be tossed around. I will say it again, TRUST is a hard thing to earn, and when its lost, its even harder to get back. (leans scummy)
2) Day 1 - Many people agreed that NO LYNCH vote on Day 1 to be a poor idea. Diaz was an advocate along with a known wolf, SS7. 481 (leans Anti-Town)
3) Day 1 - Take a look at his actions under pressure. Very interested in SELF preservation, he even asks for a bandwagon away from him. Under pressure, he threw out all kinds of wild posts and attacks. (leans very INDEPENDENT)
Attacks skdrawkab and Cantor's characters and self-inflates his worth. 518
Scrambles in desperation.
563
When his bandwagon appeal rally for myself didn't work out, he moved to another candidate, Dave.
568
And for the icing on Day 1's cake... the confession.
4) Day 3 - Claims restrictions. No mention from AAM about restrictions, most concerning to me is the one about voting. (Scummy if Lying)
AAM specifically stated that sdrawkab could NOT vote during Day 2 because of a role. Why would this day be any different?
Again, right after I mentioned something fishy, Diaz makes his mistake. I was hoping to point this out after mistake #2, but he has been much more careful. THIS post, 33 words, 3 above his declared limit. 1168 Perhaps he received his warning and that is why he has been more careful, but who knows?
5) Day 3 - Diaz begins his "witchhunt" as it is so called. I have already pointed out that he is searching for something and obtaining any information only helps his search. (Independent)
He is asking around about who is the cloaked man in the red cape. This happened to be before his idea, but also along the lines of asking players to self claim. I also find it interesting the the only role he DOESN'T want outed is the one he already knows. 1266
6) Day 3 - Diaz uses faulty logic while leading the "witchhunt". This is what strikes me the MOST as being anti-town/dangerous to the town. He is too swift to cast judgement, and in doing so dissuades followers from beneficial discussion.
His main argument that people ARE townie if they have self-revealed and have not been counter-claimed. This argument ONLY works IF there are X specific roles, all of which are known prior to the beginning of the game. Poor logic.
There are plenty of reasons to bring up that line of reasoning if he WAS Ghetsis. Case in point, EVERYONE making these witch-hunt lists have left Diaz off of it. This fact alone is supporting evidence that Ghetsis would have been wise to START the witch-hunt himself to avoid getting trapped. I believe the statement, "probably would have gone unnoticed if not for me" is a fallacy but I am not as studious as Napoleon or Cantor, so I will deflect to them on that topic. Again, poor logic.
Recall my post about why Diaz's line of reasoning was logically unsound. . . #1335, and his immediate rebuttal was
Quick to dismiss. Anti-town.
Finally as another affirmation,
Confirmed in my book means they were seered, and reported as town. Even then, there is no absolute. I do not recall anyone "confirming" any of those three players. As of now, only two targets have been semi-seered. I already made a plausable scenerio of why Absol cannot be confirmed, the other two just have not been counter-claimed. PCoPB is probably the closest to confirmed as his character has been named in the updates without a counter-claim. And I assume by other he is referring to himself, which is ABSOLUTELY NOT confirmed. Poor logic.
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With all of that said. This evidence fully leads me to believe that Diaz is an independent and not a towny. Tonight, I am looking for a wolf. Therefore, I believe as well that Scott is a good candidate, WIFOM arguments against, as well as for his lynch.
VOTE: Scottistru
(I realize that this post has been about Diaz, and in the end results in a vote for Scott. This post took me long enough as it is, please dont ask for a line by line on why I am voting for Scott, unless you REALLY need me to :thumb
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't your reasoning that Scott is unlikely to be a wolf also a WIFOM argument? Not that its a bad argument, but don't call out someone elses WIFOM if you are going to roll with the same type.
I think the attacking "liar" is a bit unnecessary and yes as Jewel pointed out, obsessive. I do not think it is a coincidence that Cantor and Napoleon agree with each other. I don't like the assumptions people are making about their same ideas because we have a high degree of confidence that Napoleon is town.
I am sad that we are not taking a closer look at Diaz, there are SO many mistakes that he has made in this game so far. I hope after today, that we continue to focus on him. So, I will throw out my list that I have been keeping just for the sake of keeping him out on the table.
1) Day 1 - Dishonesty. The FACT is he was dishonest. I don't care why and if it caused any harm or even helped, this has and probably will continue to be tossed around. I will say it again, TRUST is a hard thing to earn, and when its lost, its even harder to get back. (leans scummy)
2) Day 1 - Many people agreed that NO LYNCH vote on Day 1 to be a poor idea. Diaz was an advocate along with a known wolf, SS7. 481 (leans Anti-Town)
3) Day 1 - Take a look at his actions under pressure. Very interested in SELF preservation, he even asks for a bandwagon away from him. Under pressure, he threw out all kinds of wild posts and attacks. (leans very INDEPENDENT)
Attacks skdrawkab and Cantor's characters and self-inflates his worth. 518
Scrambles in desperation.
563
When his bandwagon appeal rally for myself didn't work out, he moved to another candidate, Dave.
568
And for the icing on Day 1's cake... the confession.
4) Day 3 - Claims restrictions. No mention from AAM about restrictions, most concerning to me is the one about voting. (Scummy if Lying)
AAM specifically stated that sdrawkab could NOT vote during Day 2 because of a role. Why would this day be any different?
Again, right after I mentioned something fishy, Diaz makes his mistake. I was hoping to point this out after mistake #2, but he has been much more careful. THIS post, 33 words, 3 above his declared limit. 1168 Perhaps he received his warning and that is why he has been more careful, but who knows?
5) Day 3 - Diaz begins his "witchhunt" as it is so called. I have already pointed out that he is searching for something and obtaining any information only helps his search. (Independent)
He is asking around about who is the cloaked man in the red cape. This happened to be before his idea, but also along the lines of asking players to self claim. I also find it interesting the the only role he DOESN'T want outed is the one he already knows. 1266
6) Day 3 - Diaz uses faulty logic while leading the "witchhunt". This is what strikes me the MOST as being anti-town/dangerous to the town. He is too swift to cast judgement, and in doing so dissuades followers from beneficial discussion.
His main argument that people ARE townie if they have self-revealed and have not been counter-claimed. This argument ONLY works IF there are X specific roles, all of which are known prior to the beginning of the game. Poor logic.
There are plenty of reasons to bring up that line of reasoning if he WAS Ghetsis. Case in point, EVERYONE making these witch-hunt lists have left Diaz off of it. This fact alone is supporting evidence that Ghetsis would have been wise to START the witch-hunt himself to avoid getting trapped. I believe the statement, "probably would have gone unnoticed if not for me" is a fallacy but I am not as studious as Napoleon or Cantor, so I will deflect to them on that topic. Again, poor logic.
Recall my post about why Diaz's line of reasoning was logically unsound. . . #1335, and his immediate rebuttal was
Quick to dismiss. Anti-town.
Finally as another affirmation,
Confirmed in my book means they were seered, and reported as town. Even then, there is no absolute. I do not recall anyone "confirming" any of those three players. As of now, only two targets have been semi-seered. I already made a plausable scenerio of why Absol cannot be confirmed, the other two just have not been counter-claimed. PCoPB is probably the closest to confirmed as his character has been named in the updates without a counter-claim. And I assume by other he is referring to himself, which is ABSOLUTELY NOT confirmed. Poor logic.
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With all of that said. This evidence fully leads me to believe that Diaz is an independent and not a towny. Tonight, I am looking for a wolf. Therefore, I believe as well that Scott is a good candidate, WIFOM arguments against, as well as for his lynch.
VOTE: Scottistru
(I realize that this post has been about Diaz, and in the end results in a vote for Scott. This post took me long enough as it is, please dont ask for a line by line on why I am voting for Scott, unless you REALLY need me to :thumb
Arcanine/Arbok Master
New Member
Blah blah, Diaz over does it and can no longer post or vote and stuff. I would write something interesting, but I'm slightly occupied ATM :thumb: