My mistake 29th, the fact still remains, I'm facing a donk format nationals.
Why Changing Format wont change the fact its still a crapshoot
- Thread starter SebastianS
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My mistake 29th, the fact still remains, I'm facing a donk format nationals.
OP has no idea what they are talking about. Odds are, they have no intention of actually testing themselves, and have grown complacent with whatever deck they currently have. The prior format was atrocious. If you want to try and claim my opinion is invalid, I guarantee you that you can't find a single player with better credentials to make that evaluation, seeing how I've played at a top level in literally every single format in the history of this game.
The HGSS format looks to be a fantastic format. During the initial stages of testing, this format has been a breath of fresh air. Clearly it hasn't been fully explored ( although as far as I am aware, it is currently, successfully, being implemented in Japan, which should in and of itself be proof that the format is fine. ) but so far it is great.
I think your definition of "crapshoot" is actually a complaint that you don't think you can compete in terms of innovation and testing with better players. If you were to give me a random format the day before Worlds, with all the players having 24 hours to build a deck and show up, I guarantee you the best players would FAR out perform everyone else. In fact, I would argue that is the exact OPPOSITE of a "crapshoot", no? It just prevents players from having excessive amounts of time to wait to see what everyone else uses, then copy it and aimlessly play it until they become capable with it. There is NO "luck" applied here. Everyone has the same amount of time to work with the same cards. Everything is even. When the playing field is level, which it is, because every player has nearly TWO MONTHS to test, how is this a "crapshoot"? I have no idea if you are trolling or just naive, but I almost hope it is the first.
The HGSS format looks to be a fantastic format. During the initial stages of testing, this format has been a breath of fresh air. Clearly it hasn't been fully explored ( although as far as I am aware, it is currently, successfully, being implemented in Japan, which should in and of itself be proof that the format is fine. ) but so far it is great.
I think your definition of "crapshoot" is actually a complaint that you don't think you can compete in terms of innovation and testing with better players. If you were to give me a random format the day before Worlds, with all the players having 24 hours to build a deck and show up, I guarantee you the best players would FAR out perform everyone else. In fact, I would argue that is the exact OPPOSITE of a "crapshoot", no? It just prevents players from having excessive amounts of time to wait to see what everyone else uses, then copy it and aimlessly play it until they become capable with it. There is NO "luck" applied here. Everyone has the same amount of time to work with the same cards. Everything is even. When the playing field is level, which it is, because every player has nearly TWO MONTHS to test, how is this a "crapshoot"? I have no idea if you are trolling or just naive, but I almost hope it is the first.
Shadow Zangoose
New Member
Yeah. You're getting a giftbasket too.
The_Legend
New Member
Not true, not everyone has all the cards you have. Players who can build good decks and play decent enough lose any shot in a hgss-on format if they dont own all the cards needed to build a decent deck. Sure they could very easily build a DECENT to above average deck but who wants to take a sub par deck to nats or worlds? especially when you know that you have a great deck that gets around sabledonk with no problem with the cards you own from md-ar. Nothing is more frustrating then feeling like your money(therefore the work you did to get that money) went to waste.
bro you bought pokemon cards... i mean you got your intended use out of them, since i'm pretty sure MD has been legal for at least 3 seasons and the rest of the sets have had at least 2. i knew this AMAZING decision for an early rotation would cause kids who can't build their own decks to complain. stop netdecking and do some testing.
p.s. i own a total of about 100 cards or less.... make friends bro.
I think the rotation is good for the health of the game BUT i personally think that the rotation on JULY is bad because many EU nationals will still have MD-On.
I hope that the EU TOs can do the rotation earlier than US to have a HS-ON format, because it will be much better for most players than a MD-On format with BW rules
I hope that the EU TOs can do the rotation earlier than US to have a HS-ON format, because it will be much better for most players than a MD-On format with BW rules
Agreed, like usual.
I understand what the OP is talking about with a developed format/metagame that experienced players can respond to, but it's not difficult to look at the sets from HGSS-on and do a little bit of playtesting to determine what's good and what's not. Oh wait, it might be difficult for players that aren't good. For the past two seasons and this one up til now, every bad player could reasonably revert back to a single style of deck every time: SP. I mean, come on, for the third Regionals in a row players had to respond to SP decks and the decks that could counter SP. Gengar, Machamp, Gyarados... same old stuff every time. Nationals with a rotation is fresh, the better players will rise to the top, it's a challenge.
Sounds good to me.
Lol.. You don't need to test every possibility available, combos aren't usually discovered by playtesting, they are made, when a great mind sees 2 cards and immidiately spots synergy.
People who thought there might be an end season rotation, started making up new decks, only shortly after that thought struck their mind. Because the rotation would take place no matter what, but if it occured before worlds, they needed to stay on top of the game.
If you now, don't know what to play, or where to even start looking for a new deck, u're the one at fault here, not the guys making the rotation, the rumor had been out there so long !
(If this have alrdy been said, I'm sry, I didn't bother reading all the posts)
vegitalian
New Member
Nothing would be better for the game than a mid-season rotation (RR-on, HGSS-on, SV-on, AR-on would all be good).
The_Legend
New Member
Did you just call me a net decker? Don't make accusations you can't back up, don't ever call me a kid either, thats a big insult where I come from. I have NEVER and repeat NEVER netdecked. My complaints come from not my issues with not having cards but the new players that just joined the game in the last two months. I come from a small town in central California, two years ago the league in my town had a grand total of two players, myself and my brother. We now have over 20 players close to 30 on some days and a majority of these players entered the game recently building meta decks because they came other card games and had the ability to build a good deck WITHOUT net decking. Sure they asked advice from players like myself, the league leader, and others who have top cut at a premier tournaments but they didnt steal lists off line. These players who each must have spent close to a 100 bucks (just an average which is pretty low considering that uxie X for 35 bucks is a pretty good deal) have just lost these cards while only using them for 3-4 months. Do you think these people are going to stay in pokemon TCG when this rotation happens? You better believe they wont be sticking around. And if I was in their place neither would I. Last year when they rotated and made the format MD-on they told us that next year would be RR-on and the same number of sets would be removed each year. I understand that they did not expect the rule change but that brings me to me next point, THE EASIEST WAY TO AVOID ALL THIS IS TO POST-PONE THE RULE CHANGE! that fixes the problem with no rotation and no bans!
its so simple..
losjackal
Technical Administrator
To be very clear about the truth, no one from The Pokemon Company said that. You may have been told things by your League Leader or maybe even a PTO, but it would have been speculation.
I agree that would have been an elegant solution in our opinions, but yesterday The Pokemon Company (USA) also very clearly said that wasn't an option under their control. Meaning certain decisions rest with Pokemon in Japan.
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I found the official news. If anything, their wording pretty clearly says going forward they're going to make yearly rotation decisions based on keeping the format healthy, which with yesterday's news they certainly are:
http://www.pokemon.com/us/news/op_format_2010-2010-06-02/
As someone who joined the game in the middle of last year, in retrospect it appears they made rotation decisions (no rotation, then only 4 sets) to allow enough Diamond and Pearl cards to remain in the format long enough to compete with SP. But now that new B&W rules are here (that can't be waylaid), they are considering fast-forwarding the rotation to where it normally could be.
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cool wall of text man can't wait to not read any of it except the bolded part
honestly...this would all be easily resolved by just waiting until the rotation to enforce the new rules...it's not like it would be the first time the starter deck rulebook and the tournament didn't have the same rules......and then to rotate all the way to HGSS, that's just retarded...a rotation to RR-on (which is what was the rotation would have been had they kept they same schedule they outlined during last year's rotation announcement) would be fine, if it were to happen late-season
the thing that really bugs me, is that they're worried about a donk deck (that can be stopped) that hasn't even gotten off the ground in tournaments yet...but yet let the unbalanced SP engine last for the last 2 and a half years, without doing a thing...what a crock of a steaming pile is this, I don't even...with this complete and utter mismanagement, I'm done with this game...I'm already committed to going to Nats, but after that tournament, not anymore
the thing that really bugs me, is that they're worried about a donk deck (that can be stopped) that hasn't even gotten off the ground in tournaments yet...but yet let the unbalanced SP engine last for the last 2 and a half years, without doing a thing...what a crock of a steaming pile is this, I don't even...with this complete and utter mismanagement, I'm done with this game...I'm already committed to going to Nats, but after that tournament, not anymore
^this. exactly and completely this.
It's not just about a single donk deck, it's about an already fast format getting another boost in speed. Luxchomp mirror? Oh, you have a Crobat G start huh, well I'll just Pokemon Collector, drop Luxray GL, attach DCE, Poketurn my active Garchomp, drop Crobat G, drop second Crobat G, and Bite for game. Or how about Gyarados mirror? Oh, you have a Magikarp active and an Azelf on the bench, so I'll play a bunch of trainers use a Seeker, Crobat your Magikarp to death good game! This is the type of stuff a game with first turn trainers (and our current format) encourages. None of which is fun, skillful, or appealing to players old and new.
losjackal
Technical Administrator
Perhaps you didn't notice in other posts, but it wasn't an option for The Pokemon Company (USA) to separate the B&W cards from the B&W rules.
As for rotating all the way to HS, other people have recently had the opinion that 13 is too many sets in a format. So with this new rotation we'll have 10 for next year's Nationals and Worlds. And arguably TPC kept so many sets in the format to give players as many cards as possible to counteract the SP engine.
kd0220437
Active Member
To this rant I say this, there is this new concept called play testing, I hear it works wonders :thumb:
TheDancingPeanut
New Member
Silly argument: the metagame changes what you will or will not play (if you're paying attention) just as the format does. You think the metagame never changes between nationals and worlds? How many decks have won nats/worlds that no one had ever played before?
Lots.
Lots.
Naki Feralkin
New Member
While this is a good statement to the fact, who's to say that you as the player cannot trade for the stuff that you need now and test your worth against the other possible decks now while we're waiting for an official announcement? I already know I'm keeping my MD-on deck together in case the shift doesn't occur, however, I know for a fact I will be testing HGSS-on as soon as this weekend.
The only person limiting you from doing well at nationals is yourself. There is no reason to ignore the fact that we may not get a format shift, but there is also no reason to not be prepared for HG-SS on nationals, especially since it is currently April 26th, 2011, and American Nationals is the week following July 4th. You have a little over less than 2 months to begin testing.
Crapshoot? Definitely not. If you are playing the most consistent deck you know you can make, and are aware of the most powerful cards this format can bring and prepare accordingly for them, you WILL do good at nationals. Some of you can brag about your skill and how prepared you are, this means utter crap if you aren't capable of determining what the best decks are going to be. Start testing now, or suffer the consequences when you aren't prepared.
I also second Shadow Zangoose's statement in which Chris Fulop should be getting a Gift Basket for his post.
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