prequalifiers should be in the country with the most pokemon players before nationals. The airfare to hawaii for a family is outrageous. It would be worth it if you knew you had an invite. Now it has become a rich mans tournament only for those who can afford to go. And the best players will not even qualify as most players at the grinder because of cost and location will be family members of qualifiers. That means those who deserve a shot have none. This could easily be fixed but I guess pokemon likes to keep it a rich mans game and giving out invites to players who only won an invite at grinders who could afford the trip. This is not right.
Why not have grinders in the US?
- Thread starter pokedad1
- Start date
King Piplup
Active Member
Grinders aren't just for US players, hence why it can't really be there. Can't force the non US player base to fly across the ocean TWICE.
baby mario
Front Page Article Editor<br><a href="http://pokeg
The people who most deserve a shot are surely the people who already qualify through CPs and Nats?
According to your plan, would they hold grinders in different locations around the World, or is this just for the US?
There is of course one obvious flaw in your idea though . . .
If they held grinders in the US, everyone would have to pay to go to them (yes, even the US players who didn't live right near the venue). Then if someone qualified, they would have to pay out AGAIN to get to Hawaii! (No paid trips for LCQ). This would actually make it MORE expensive than just going to Hawaii for the LCQ in the first place!
So yeah . . . this idea isn't going to sweeten any grapes.
According to your plan, would they hold grinders in different locations around the World, or is this just for the US?
There is of course one obvious flaw in your idea though . . .
If they held grinders in the US, everyone would have to pay to go to them (yes, even the US players who didn't live right near the venue). Then if someone qualified, they would have to pay out AGAIN to get to Hawaii! (No paid trips for LCQ). This would actually make it MORE expensive than just going to Hawaii for the LCQ in the first place!
So yeah . . . this idea isn't going to sweeten any grapes.
baby mario
Front Page Article Editor<br><a href="http://pokeg
Well for one thing they don't know how many open slots there are until registration is complete at Worlds.
LCQ is what it says . . . it's a last chance open to the people who actually show up at Worlds without an invite. We already have ways of pre-qualifying for Worlds within your own country - CPs and Nats - what is the point of adding another one?
And like I said, even if they qualified, they would STILL have to pay to go to Hawaii, so how is this saving money exactly?
LCQ is what it says . . . it's a last chance open to the people who actually show up at Worlds without an invite. We already have ways of pre-qualifying for Worlds within your own country - CPs and Nats - what is the point of adding another one?
And like I said, even if they qualified, they would STILL have to pay to go to Hawaii, so how is this saving money exactly?
psychup2034
New Member
Prequalifiers should be at the location where Worlds is held. The airfare to the continental US and back to Hawaii for a Japanese family is ridiculous.
machampion12
New Member
As someone who played in the grinder last year I will honestly tell you that this idea would make the grinder much less fun. Getting to play against people from other countries is one of the coolest opportunities in the game. Getting to experience World's and all of its free play and side events also makes a trip to the actual site to play in the grinder worth it.
The "best players" have already qualified by winning or top X'ing their Nat'l championships. Also via year long CP rankings. The LCQ is there to fill out the field by those willing to spend their hard earned money to take that chance. Some of the participants will be related to those with paid trips, no doubt. But not all!
Keith
Keith
Bidier
New Member
If you look at it, an average US family's airfare to Hawaii is easily the cheapest compare to anywhere else in the world. So not sure why there's any complains from the op at all when you could only be paying half of what most other countries' players pay. Guess you could complain about living on the east and would have to pay more compare to someone lives on the west.
1- Hawaii is in the United States
2- The "prequalifiers" or LCQ/Grinder are supose to be for all players not just for players from one country.
3- There are already "prequalifiers" in each county, they are called Nationals
4- You want "prequalifiers" in the country with the most pokemon players? Last time I checked there is no proof that the United States is this country. It can very easily be Japan.
5- P!P does not know how many extra seats to give to the LCQ until Friday night when players with invites check in/fail to check in.
psychup2034
New Member
^ This.
I haven't thought of it that way before, but it makes perfect sense. Thanks for the post, LOLZ.
Nationals are not the only qualifiers. The invites are also based on champ points. Let me ask you something ... if you won a states, a cities and top cut at nationals, but fell short on champ points because you could not run around multiple states and play multiple events to earn 57 points, should you still get an invite to worlds? There are players who never won a states, and either failed at major tourneys or there were some who got lucky at nationals who got in by not playing anyone. I say the structure still does not reward the best players an invite and therefore the best will not be at worlds. My son did all of the above, but will not be going because it cost over 2000.00 to get him there and he has no invite.
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baby mario
Front Page Article Editor<br><a href="http://pokeg
Ok, so this is 'the system didn't work for me' disguised as 'the system is bad'.
There are two ways of deciding who the 'best' players are . . .
1. Over the course of a whole season and multiple events (Champ Points)
2. Doing well enough at the biggest tournament of the year (Nats)
That's two chances to prove you are deserving of an invite. Seems fair enough to me. Of course there will always be hard luck stories, but are you seriously suggesting that those people should be given a local LCQ to make up for it? Where does it ever end?
Also, no-one makes the top 8 at US Nats by 'getting lucky and not playing anyone'. That's a bit of an insult really, and belittling the achievement of other people just makes you look petty and jealous.
And you STILL haven't answered my question: suppose your son won this mythical LCQ in your back yard - if you can't afford the $2000 to take him to Hawaii . . . then what good will it do? Or do you want LCQs with trips now (basically making it Nationals part 2)? And what would happen when a 'lucky' player wins that over your son? Have another go until you get the outcome you want?
There are two ways of deciding who the 'best' players are . . .
1. Over the course of a whole season and multiple events (Champ Points)
2. Doing well enough at the biggest tournament of the year (Nats)
That's two chances to prove you are deserving of an invite. Seems fair enough to me. Of course there will always be hard luck stories, but are you seriously suggesting that those people should be given a local LCQ to make up for it? Where does it ever end?
Also, no-one makes the top 8 at US Nats by 'getting lucky and not playing anyone'. That's a bit of an insult really, and belittling the achievement of other people just makes you look petty and jealous.
And you STILL haven't answered my question: suppose your son won this mythical LCQ in your back yard - if you can't afford the $2000 to take him to Hawaii . . . then what good will it do? Or do you want LCQs with trips now (basically making it Nationals part 2)? And what would happen when a 'lucky' player wins that over your son? Have another go until you get the outcome you want?
psychup2034
New Member
No, if you fail to earn enough Championship points, then you shouldn't get an invite to worlds...
Your son did all of the above, including fail to qualify for worlds. Therefore, he shouldn't be playing in worlds unless he performs well at the last chance qualifier. Pretty simple, no?
Look, we're not trying to be overly insensitive to your son. There are sour grapes threads every year, but the rating system determined at the start of the season is a very objective way to determine who gets the worlds invites. I don't want to crush your son's self-esteem (although I am trying to crush your ego), but you have to understand that winning just 1 States and 1 Cities in Seniors isn't that impressive. There are Juniors, Seniors, and Masters who have won 5 Cities this year. Now that's more impressive.
I hope you can use this as a teaching opportunity for your child. When you don't get what you want, you don't learn anything from blaming the system. Worlds is designed to be exclusive, and unfortunately, your child didn't make it this year. He can continue to play next year, and continue to improve as a player. As a parent, knowing that Pokemon is that important to your son, you could perhaps make plans in advance to take your son to more tournaments next year. Cities, States, and Regionals pretty much happen at the same time every year.
that is the problem.worlds is designed-at least now when it is in hawaii,to be too exclusive.although it will probably always be so,not every winner of nationals is able to go to worlds because of the cost of going there in the first place.worlds will be worlds when it stops being in hawaii kind of places.And as far as i know worlds shouldn't only be about the World championship.It should be about promoting the game too,making it more accesible to new players.
Most of us understands the position you are in- You are a parent, you want you child to play in events and have fun, but the fact remains that your child fell short of an invite, and that is why you are upset.
The structure of invites does award the best players, as these players have to consistency do well (not necessarily win, but do well) at multiple events to get an invite. 1 bad tournament, especially at the Tier 2 level could mean the difference between an invite or no invite. To say that the invite structure does not reward the best players is really insulting to those players (in all three age groups) who worked all season to earn his/her invite.
NoPoke
Active Member
@pokedad1. In your opening post you declare that this could easily be fixed. But at the point where you declare the fix is easy I've lost track of what you are proposing. So is your easy fix that the grinders should be held on the mainland USA?
Though this may upset the mostly USA readership on this board I don't believe that the grinder's purpose is to qualify USA players. If that were the purpose I expect it would have been cancelled a long time ago. I suspect that the grinder's continued existance is because it is of benefit to the Japanese players . Similar reasoning being applied to explain why worlds is held in Hawaii so frequently.
=====
Should you get an invite to worlds when you did not meet the qualification requirement? The answer is no.
I'm all ears to hear a proposal that would make the system better. POP have already declared that they knew ahead of time that this year would not be perfect so help them out with not just identifying an issue (lots of travel required) but a solution too. Personally I don't think that having grinders on the mainland USA as a separate tournament is a solution for the reasons that others have already stated.
Though this may upset the mostly USA readership on this board I don't believe that the grinder's purpose is to qualify USA players. If that were the purpose I expect it would have been cancelled a long time ago. I suspect that the grinder's continued existance is because it is of benefit to the Japanese players . Similar reasoning being applied to explain why worlds is held in Hawaii so frequently.
=====
Should you get an invite to worlds when you did not meet the qualification requirement? The answer is no.
No structure ever can. Some very strong players are always left out and replaced by weaker candidates. Happens every year.
I'm all ears to hear a proposal that would make the system better. POP have already declared that they knew ahead of time that this year would not be perfect so help them out with not just identifying an issue (lots of travel required) but a solution too. Personally I don't think that having grinders on the mainland USA as a separate tournament is a solution for the reasons that others have already stated.
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SummerDaze
New Member
As a pokedad myself, I can sympathize with your frustration. The system doesn't work for everyone -- not everyone has the time or money to travel around their region to enough tournaments to qualify through championship points, and Nats is a bit of a crap shoot (although I agree that no one lucks their way into the T8 of Nats). However, I think you need to regain a little perspective:
1) Worlds is not intended to be accessible to everyone as competitors. It is intended to be a reward for those players who play a lot, at a consistently high level, and those who reach the late elimination rounds of nationals. There are a lot of really good players, including players who have reached T8 or better at prior Worlds, who did not qualify this year. Could they have been successful at Worlds had they qualified? Probably. But, they didn't qualify, and that's just the way it is.
2) That being said, Worlds is set up so that attending, even if not as a competitor, is a worthwhile experience. Aside from the pagentry of the event, there are a lot of side events and the pre-release for the newest set that are accessible to everyone. The Grinder, while giving players a last chance to get into the main event and Pokemon an opportunity to fill in the field, is more importantly another aspect of the Worlds experience Pokemon gives to non-qualifiers, and therefore it absolutely belongs coupled with the Worlds tournament.
3) US players already enjoy a significant advantage over non-US players when it comes to the Grinder. Although there is an additional financial burden when Worlds is in Hawaii, it is in Hawaii at most every 2 years. The rest of the time, it is in the Continental US and pretty easily accessible for anyone who wants to go. European players, Japanese players, South American players, etc., never have that luxury. Add to that that Japanese players have a much more limited opportunity to qualify for Worlds in the first place, and it seems a little difficult to complain that we have it rough.
4) Finally, the people who staff these tournaments generally have lives outside of Pokemon. They already run tournaments from BRs in September through Nats in June/July. Expecting them to run another large tournament in between Nats and Worlds is asking a lot. Those people already are going to be a Worlds, so running the Grinder at that time is simply far more convenient, which it should be. After all, without the TOs and judges who run these tournements, Pokemon cannot exist, and we should be striving to make their work easier, not harder.
In the end, it sucks that your son didn't qualify for Worlds. Neither did mine, and hundreds (if not thousands) of others. However, Pokemon provides an activity that I think is worthwhile for any kid, and can be enjoyed at a fairly low cost throughout the year. That Pokemon makes Worlds -- which by design is intended for a limited field -- less accessible, hardly seems unreasonable.
If your son really wants to go to Worlds, and you were prepared to take him if he qualified, you should go. He may strike gold and qualify but, even if he doesn't, it should still be a great opportunity to mingle with players from all over the world. And, that's an opportunity he might never get if the Grinder were decoupled from the main event.
1) Worlds is not intended to be accessible to everyone as competitors. It is intended to be a reward for those players who play a lot, at a consistently high level, and those who reach the late elimination rounds of nationals. There are a lot of really good players, including players who have reached T8 or better at prior Worlds, who did not qualify this year. Could they have been successful at Worlds had they qualified? Probably. But, they didn't qualify, and that's just the way it is.
2) That being said, Worlds is set up so that attending, even if not as a competitor, is a worthwhile experience. Aside from the pagentry of the event, there are a lot of side events and the pre-release for the newest set that are accessible to everyone. The Grinder, while giving players a last chance to get into the main event and Pokemon an opportunity to fill in the field, is more importantly another aspect of the Worlds experience Pokemon gives to non-qualifiers, and therefore it absolutely belongs coupled with the Worlds tournament.
3) US players already enjoy a significant advantage over non-US players when it comes to the Grinder. Although there is an additional financial burden when Worlds is in Hawaii, it is in Hawaii at most every 2 years. The rest of the time, it is in the Continental US and pretty easily accessible for anyone who wants to go. European players, Japanese players, South American players, etc., never have that luxury. Add to that that Japanese players have a much more limited opportunity to qualify for Worlds in the first place, and it seems a little difficult to complain that we have it rough.
4) Finally, the people who staff these tournaments generally have lives outside of Pokemon. They already run tournaments from BRs in September through Nats in June/July. Expecting them to run another large tournament in between Nats and Worlds is asking a lot. Those people already are going to be a Worlds, so running the Grinder at that time is simply far more convenient, which it should be. After all, without the TOs and judges who run these tournements, Pokemon cannot exist, and we should be striving to make their work easier, not harder.
In the end, it sucks that your son didn't qualify for Worlds. Neither did mine, and hundreds (if not thousands) of others. However, Pokemon provides an activity that I think is worthwhile for any kid, and can be enjoyed at a fairly low cost throughout the year. That Pokemon makes Worlds -- which by design is intended for a limited field -- less accessible, hardly seems unreasonable.
If your son really wants to go to Worlds, and you were prepared to take him if he qualified, you should go. He may strike gold and qualify but, even if he doesn't, it should still be a great opportunity to mingle with players from all over the world. And, that's an opportunity he might never get if the Grinder were decoupled from the main event.