~`Flygon`~
New Member
How is it truly amazing??Is their Gardevior or Gallade more holo than everybody elses??
will GG run the table?
- Thread starter revdjweb
- Start date
How is it truly amazing??Is their Gardevior or Gallade more holo than everybody elses??
~`Flygon`~
New Member
Its not like you havent been bashed in this thread already. You mite as well say something and at least look like you can defend your statements. I mean you always something is really good,but you never say why.So you should start doing that.
i started this thread so i figure i ought to chip in again. GG became the BDIF by displacing Blissey variants. why? in no small part because it was faster than blissey and the fact that gallade was hitting weakness. so to become the king you have to beat the king and my whole point is i don't see any decks now or on the horizon capable of doing that.
now i don't believe for a second that any other good stage 2 deck is going to be faster (or even as fast) as GG. why? because of the power of telepass. couple this with psychic lock which can seriously slow opposing decks down and you see the chasm open up between GG and all other stage 2 decks.
people talk about how GG loses firepower as the game goes on and yes, there is no denying that as prizes are taken or flipped over GG loses punch. but this ignores the notion that an astute GG player will use the overwhelming firepower of gallade to cripple his opponent. the damage spread of empoleon and the nastiness of garchomp are not lost on me, but neither has the serendipitous T2 ability to run the opponent right out of the game.
i could go on but instead let me summarize my position: no other stage 2 deck sets up as fast or can hit as hard early as GG. stage 1 decks either don't hit hard enough or can't take the punch back from GG (even a beast like magmortar, with over 100hp and the ability to heal itself). decks relying on preying on the psychic weakness of GG tend to fail to survive the field of rogues to square off against GG at the end. of course all of these are trends, not absolutes. but if a matchup is only 60-40 in GGs favor that means it is going to win 3 out of every 5 matchups.
looking ahead kingdra looks like the next best thing, but it is a stage 2 deck and is going to suffer all the requisite set up problems which we already see. some people think the fairies will counter GG. but i honestly don't see how trying to set up three level x's, even basic ones, can be done quickly and consistently. so that is why i expect GG variants to tech in new cards from every set and for it to continue to be the deck to beat at least until the next format change.
now i don't believe for a second that any other good stage 2 deck is going to be faster (or even as fast) as GG. why? because of the power of telepass. couple this with psychic lock which can seriously slow opposing decks down and you see the chasm open up between GG and all other stage 2 decks.
people talk about how GG loses firepower as the game goes on and yes, there is no denying that as prizes are taken or flipped over GG loses punch. but this ignores the notion that an astute GG player will use the overwhelming firepower of gallade to cripple his opponent. the damage spread of empoleon and the nastiness of garchomp are not lost on me, but neither has the serendipitous T2 ability to run the opponent right out of the game.
i could go on but instead let me summarize my position: no other stage 2 deck sets up as fast or can hit as hard early as GG. stage 1 decks either don't hit hard enough or can't take the punch back from GG (even a beast like magmortar, with over 100hp and the ability to heal itself). decks relying on preying on the psychic weakness of GG tend to fail to survive the field of rogues to square off against GG at the end. of course all of these are trends, not absolutes. but if a matchup is only 60-40 in GGs favor that means it is going to win 3 out of every 5 matchups.
looking ahead kingdra looks like the next best thing, but it is a stage 2 deck and is going to suffer all the requisite set up problems which we already see. some people think the fairies will counter GG. but i honestly don't see how trying to set up three level x's, even basic ones, can be done quickly and consistently. so that is why i expect GG variants to tech in new cards from every set and for it to continue to be the deck to beat at least until the next format change.
PokePockets
New Member
G&G Will not run the table, neither will "Plox" but heck they are the same thing. Banette beats either of those when it sets up ,and Empoleon gives that deck a hard time as well. A deck that we have going down here in Utah is even beating most of the G&G that it plays, however it loses to Banette quite a bit easier, and some other decks such as Tyranitar/Mantine d. I just have a hard time believing that G&G/Plox will win Worlds, heck, i don't even think G&G/Plox will win U.S. Nats either.
ColdCoates90
Active Member
GG will definitely be in full force at nats and you can expect to see it in the top cut.
~`Flygon`~
New Member
Yea at Nats,it will be in top cut,but if its so heavy,Banette will be in top cut and it would run thro the field.
Empoleon can hit hard early and not lose firepower as the game goes on. Its just that Empoleon dosent have powers to setup itself like Gardy does. 1 disadvantage. Empoleon can get going for less energy,more or the same as Gardy/Gallade.Gallade just has to ability to downsize anything with sonic blade. GG sharing the same line makes room for the deck to have anything else it could need to contend. Thats where GG speed is,it shares the same line so you have more options on which to setup in a situation.
Banette beats GG/PLOX hands down,it dosent lose to alot of rogues deck unless you just dont know how to play it to there matchup,Banette outspeeds every deck.But the fact Empoleon gives it a hard time and Magmortar is a near auto loss,it just seems like it loses to alot of other stuff which it dosent.
GG will be at Nats so hard,but u can count on rogue to be there and contend with the field.
Empoleon can hit hard early and not lose firepower as the game goes on. Its just that Empoleon dosent have powers to setup itself like Gardy does. 1 disadvantage. Empoleon can get going for less energy,more or the same as Gardy/Gallade.Gallade just has to ability to downsize anything with sonic blade. GG sharing the same line makes room for the deck to have anything else it could need to contend. Thats where GG speed is,it shares the same line so you have more options on which to setup in a situation.
Banette beats GG/PLOX hands down,it dosent lose to alot of rogues deck unless you just dont know how to play it to there matchup,Banette outspeeds every deck.But the fact Empoleon gives it a hard time and Magmortar is a near auto loss,it just seems like it loses to alot of other stuff which it dosent.
GG will be at Nats so hard,but u can count on rogue to be there and contend with the field.
rerisenphoenix
New Member
All I have to say about G&G is that, yes it's good, but, it's been out so long, its weaknesses are known. There will be Rogue at Nationals, and it will win!
yoyofsho16
New Member
I disagree. Blissey was ruled out because it became too slow. Secret Wonders gave us a multitude of cards (Furret, Gardy/Gallade, Magmortar, etc.) to work with. Not just GG ruled out Blissey; the fact that new sets were being released and updated the format ruled out Blissey.
It's a part of every season. No BDIF will stay that way from Fall Battle Roads all the way to Nationals. It's never happened.
~`Flygon`~
New Member
Banbliss can beat GG since cess and the speed of it. GG ruled out Blissey because of the weakness and the fact that Blissey only acculumated damage,20-30-40 a turn couldnt keep up with decks like GG that can OHKO anything or Banette that had resis to it and could do 70/80 for less energy.
yoyoshi is right,no deck stays the BDIF for so long.
yoyoshi is right,no deck stays the BDIF for so long.
DarthPika
New Member
Ya, there is no way Plox/G&G will be the BDIF next yr. If Kingdra doesn't make it compleatly unplayable, AMU will. AMU is just about the most perfect Gardy counter I have ever seen.
Professor Elm
Active Member
OK, now lets honestly sit down hard and think here for a second.
It's obvious why GG/Plox do so well in tournaments. It's a very consistent and fast stage 2 deck, that can hit hard as well as playing more defensively by abusing the Psy Lock mechanic.
NEVER before have we had to deal with a deck that can switch off between insane offensive power as well as crippling control power. GG/Plox is essentially a mixture between Beatdown and Control. This is what makes the deck so hard to beat.
It will do well and most likely hold many of the top spots at nationals.
Do I think it will? Maybe, but luck plays a huge role and any deck can get lucky.
One thing's for sure though. If there is any deck that people will look out for, it's Plox.
People will playtest rigorously against that deck, and to date there is no deck that can handle Plox without falling to other popular metagame decks.
This is partly why I support the usage of 4 Crystal Beach and 4 Cessation Crystal because it really does cripple 90% or more of all decks that are being played.
Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:
Yeah, I think a 1-0-1 line of Togekiss could become quite popular
It's obvious why GG/Plox do so well in tournaments. It's a very consistent and fast stage 2 deck, that can hit hard as well as playing more defensively by abusing the Psy Lock mechanic.
NEVER before have we had to deal with a deck that can switch off between insane offensive power as well as crippling control power. GG/Plox is essentially a mixture between Beatdown and Control. This is what makes the deck so hard to beat.
It will do well and most likely hold many of the top spots at nationals.
Do I think it will? Maybe, but luck plays a huge role and any deck can get lucky.
One thing's for sure though. If there is any deck that people will look out for, it's Plox.
People will playtest rigorously against that deck, and to date there is no deck that can handle Plox without falling to other popular metagame decks.
This is partly why I support the usage of 4 Crystal Beach and 4 Cessation Crystal because it really does cripple 90% or more of all decks that are being played.
Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:
Yeah, I think a 1-0-1 line of Togekiss could become quite popular
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~`Flygon`~
New Member
Also the fact it did so well cuz of the metagame. If the metagame is soaked with 80% GG and GG variants,then the deck has to win,Its a good deck,but everyone played it during cities times and states and regionals. If everyone is playing of course its gonna become the main deck to beat,its majority metagame.
Why is that? LOL.
So you assume the combo is not that good because you assume that Gardy will be active and able to Lock in every situation where that combo is imminent? What about against non-GG decks, sir? Sorry, but that was an ignorant post.
thysereivuth
New Member
Me, i personally hate GG. Yes i know how good it is but in a big tournament such as Nats i dont think it will win. The reason behind this bold statement is simple. Every one know whats in it and there are so many cards to stop it. like Mismagius and Banette is just an example, but i might be wrong. All we have to do is wait untill Nats is over to get the final out come.
k I no that this sound kinda dumb but i found out that leafeon/tortara/mawile can give g&g a run for its money.
I have both decks built and play my friend all the time. and i always seem to destroy G&G. I really dont no much about the metagame since this is my first year but i found out that this works for me.
I have both decks built and play my friend all the time. and i always seem to destroy G&G. I really dont no much about the metagame since this is my first year but i found out that this works for me.
Ghetto Overlord
New Member
1-0-1 omastar for mirror match
1-1 dugtrio for empoleon
use call and patchey for consitantsy that was lost and BAM!
problem solved
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