ZPS-AKA Black Out
- Thread starter CFOURCOLTSFAN
- Start date
because they do increase your chances of getting a turn one zekrom without sacrificing any consistancy at all...
think of it this way your deck is 60 cards right? yes so say you run something like 16 energies or something like that. Now lets say that you decide to run like 4 energy search instead of 4 energy what have you done? well you have effectively kept the same necessary energy count for the deck to run which is 6-9 depending on how many zekroms you have to set up over the course of a game. So now you have 12 energy and 4 energy search what has this done? well it has effectively thinned the deck to 56 cards because you are always gonna play the energy search to get an energy so it was like drawing into an energy anyways. How does this help well it increase the probability of drawing something that you need on a juniper, PONT, or copycat (if you go the Mega route). You add in junk arms not only for the energy searches but for dual balls, plus powers, reversals whatever you need at the time. You run the retrievals so that if you do juniper energies away you can get 1 or 2 instantly back. This deck is all about probability and when you run the 4 energy searches it is effectively like running a deck's probability on a 56 card deck rather than a 60 card deck.
StormFront
New Member
This article is a lot better than the previous Zekrom Donk article. Its also one of the best, well thought out articles I read in a long time. In order for ZPS to be sucessful it must have a strategy that goes beyond the first few turns, because it continuously runs out of steam during the mid game. What really hurts Zekrom across all matchups is the fact its main attack does 40 damage to itself. This actually makes LostMewGar matches only slightly favourable because I lost to a Lost World deck 4/5 games despite getting a T1 Bolt Strke (My opponent did win the opening flip) during one of the games. This was because they were consistently able to get a T2 Gengar via Mew and force Shaymin and Pachirisu into the Lost Zone and crucially get a KO using cursed drop on Zekrom and Lost Zoning it with it's body. When that happens its very difficult to make comeback. However, the big matchup Zekrom needs to overcome is DonChamp which seems close to impossible at the moment, unless it gets the donk.
CFOURCOLTSFAN
Active Member
chartaze-I see the point, but the list presented isn't "maxed out" for a T1 Zekrom but the Searches still usually hit better than the Retrievals b/c then I don't have to discard energies to get the energies. Although I probably will try the retrieval idea, the list would need to be reworked to have more cards to just discard the energies.
Rig-I tested against a couple of variants, MewGar, Mime/Mew/Gar, and then just lostgar, all of them maxed out seeker and had 3 Spiritomb. LostGar just can't get 6 in the LZ b/c i run out of pokemon, then once they try to attack I can use SSU. Also the Mewgar/MimeGar are really easy b/c I don't have to bolt strike to win.
ArZona-thanks for the help, again
StormFront-T2 Mew is fine b/c you can just outrage, getting shaymin and pachi in LZ is bad, but if you run 3 or 4 you will typically be okay. Also, thannks for the compliments.
Rig-I tested against a couple of variants, MewGar, Mime/Mew/Gar, and then just lostgar, all of them maxed out seeker and had 3 Spiritomb. LostGar just can't get 6 in the LZ b/c i run out of pokemon, then once they try to attack I can use SSU. Also the Mewgar/MimeGar are really easy b/c I don't have to bolt strike to win.
ArZona-thanks for the help, again
StormFront-T2 Mew is fine b/c you can just outrage, getting shaymin and pachi in LZ is bad, but if you run 3 or 4 you will typically be okay. Also, thannks for the compliments.
chartaze-I see the point, but the list presented isn't "maxed out" for a T1 Zekrom but the Searches still usually hit better than the Retrievals b/c then I don't have to discard energies to get the energies. Although I probably will try the retrieval idea, the list would need to be reworked to have more cards to just discard the energies.
Rig-I tested against a couple of variants, MewGar, Mime/Mew/Gar, and then just lostgar, all of them maxed out seeker and had 3 Spiritomb. LostGar just can't get 6 in the LZ b/c i run out of pokemon, then once they try to attack I can use SSU. Also the Mewgar/MimeGar are really easy b/c I don't have to bolt strike to win.
ArZona-thanks for the help, again
StormFront-T2 Mew is fine b/c you can just outrage, getting shaymin and pachi in LZ is bad, but if you run 3 or 4 you will typically be okay. Also, thannks for the compliments.
The Lost World varients are almost auto wins for this deck especially after catcher comes out. All you have to do is setup 1 or 2 zekroms which will use up 4-5 of the pokes in your deck so you are left with say 8-9 pokes left in the deck so now all you do is just juniper/junk arm away everything and try to snipe off gastly and haunters with reversal/catcher before they get to be a gengar, which you can KO pretty easy anyways with plus powers. and if they run some type of bady pokemon then a teched tyrogue gives you an easy prize while you can setup another zekrom the slow way or if you have the resources to ZPS one.
CFOURCOLTSFAN
Active Member
ArZona-yeah and also noting that they don't mess w/ your initial set up at all, you have one, two if you go first, turns b/4 you have to worry about hurling and getting pokemon LZ'd and w/ two turns you can get 2 Zekrom set up and one for sure
I don't like your LostGar, Tyranitar, or Cincinno matchups.
LostGar - If they Hurl any chunk of your combo, you're done. The real problem is that they can do it for one energy, making it sometimes unanticipated and sudden. So if you happen to be holding a Shaymin or a Pachirisu, wether it was a prize, or you're waiting for the other, or whatever the case may be, you'll have trouble setting up the next Zekrom. Plus they run Seeker, too, so they'll pretty much automatically be getting rid of pieces of your combo. If you get two Zekroms set up before they get to LZ'ing stuff, then you've won, though. So I'd definitely call that one even.
Tyranitar - They can quite consistantly KO your Zekroms with the use of Megaton Tail or otherwise. They run Sp. Dark energies, so they don't have any trouble meeting the damage requirements. You 2-shot them at best, sometimes 3 or more, depending on how many healing cards/SSU's they run. This also gives them time to set up another Tyranitar on the bench and have him powered up. Also, you can't recover quickly enough from losing two Zekroms in two turns, even if they don't have another Tyranitar set up. Then they've always got Mandibuzz or whatever else they run to back them up and sort of get you while you're down. I'd say this is Even - Slightly Unfavorable.
Cincinno - This deck is fast and usually will run disruption cards. They exchange prizes with you, but you can't recover very well when they keep Claw Snagging/Second Sighting your hand to get rid of set-up cards and give you dead draws. They'll probably end up over-running you if they play disruption. If they don't play disruption, though, then your odds increase. I'd say this matchup being Party Face (disruption combo) is Slightly Unfavorable - Unfavorable. Without disruption, I'd call it Even or maybe even Slightly Favorable. However, I feel you should prepare your reading audience in your article by addressing the issue of disruption.
I hope this didn't sound mean or bashing. I'm just trying to call things as I see them, and provide you with some constructive criticism. Other than those few matchups, I thought most of it looked pretty good. Decklist could be more focused and less "out there", but definitely not bad.
LostGar - If they Hurl any chunk of your combo, you're done. The real problem is that they can do it for one energy, making it sometimes unanticipated and sudden. So if you happen to be holding a Shaymin or a Pachirisu, wether it was a prize, or you're waiting for the other, or whatever the case may be, you'll have trouble setting up the next Zekrom. Plus they run Seeker, too, so they'll pretty much automatically be getting rid of pieces of your combo. If you get two Zekroms set up before they get to LZ'ing stuff, then you've won, though. So I'd definitely call that one even.
Tyranitar - They can quite consistantly KO your Zekroms with the use of Megaton Tail or otherwise. They run Sp. Dark energies, so they don't have any trouble meeting the damage requirements. You 2-shot them at best, sometimes 3 or more, depending on how many healing cards/SSU's they run. This also gives them time to set up another Tyranitar on the bench and have him powered up. Also, you can't recover quickly enough from losing two Zekroms in two turns, even if they don't have another Tyranitar set up. Then they've always got Mandibuzz or whatever else they run to back them up and sort of get you while you're down. I'd say this is Even - Slightly Unfavorable.
Cincinno - This deck is fast and usually will run disruption cards. They exchange prizes with you, but you can't recover very well when they keep Claw Snagging/Second Sighting your hand to get rid of set-up cards and give you dead draws. They'll probably end up over-running you if they play disruption. If they don't play disruption, though, then your odds increase. I'd say this matchup being Party Face (disruption combo) is Slightly Unfavorable - Unfavorable. Without disruption, I'd call it Even or maybe even Slightly Favorable. However, I feel you should prepare your reading audience in your article by addressing the issue of disruption.
I hope this didn't sound mean or bashing. I'm just trying to call things as I see them, and provide you with some constructive criticism. Other than those few matchups, I thought most of it looked pretty good. Decklist could be more focused and less "out there", but definitely not bad.
Lost gar takes a turn or two to start hurling so you have one or two zekroms up by then, if you dont then you are either really unlucky or a bad deck builder. Also over the course of the game you just discard pokes with juniper and junk arms and can even search out pokes to discard if you have to.
TTar and Cincinno arent bad match ups because the strength of this deck is to mess up set with fast ko's tunr one and two. So sure they can disrupt but Cincinno lock is a cluncky deck that takes a bit of time to setup and lock the opponent most of the time an TTar is slow and needs 3-4 energy to KO a zekrom while zekrom takes prizes early and can reversal up stuff before it is a ttar.
Just my opinions on the matchups
bullados
<a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?
LostGar loses to Zekrom Donk, plain and simple. The pure-donk versions of the deck will run no more than 10 Pokemon total, and at least 3 of those will get into play in the first turn. Using Junk, Comm, and a bunch of combos, you can get the total number of Pokemon in your deck down to 5 before the opponent can start LZing stuff (turn 2). This particular version is easier to deal with, but any smart player with this deck will immediately bench stuff even if it doesn't do anything for them. Like those Yanmas. Also, once something's set up, you just chuck everything you don't need and try not to run out your deck. LostGar can not LZ anything important on turn 1 without an incredible amount of luck (Mime). Plus, Zek one-shots everything in the deck after just a single 120. It can Outrage all of the Basics and Stage 1s, and with a PP can Strike the Gengars for OHKOs. Zekrom is LostGar's worst possible matchup.
CFOURCOLTSFAN
Active Member
Rikko145-I'll discuss of those, since the LostGar one has been and is currently being explained-
Tyranitar-Yes they can KO my Zekrom, but usually the first is KO'd after I have a 3 prize lead built, Megaton Tail is not exactly easy to setup, so therefore Zekrom is favored, also not too hard to mess that deck up either, especially taking into consideration all the energy they take to attack and I can judge away some of those energies.
Cinccino-You take into account their disruption, but not these two things
1). I get Setup b/4 they do, regardless of Party Face version or not.
2). It's not like I can't disupt them either, so imagine this, i go first, get Zekrom, they go and I judge. Good luck getting 3 stage ones setup....
So that's why it is Slightly Favorable, the deck while being quick needs a fair amount of setup to truly start locking and attacking.
ArZona-Thanks for helping me explain.
Bullados-Thanks and in my group's testing we have been going back and forth on whether or not Zekrom has an auto win v. LostGar, that in itself should illustrate how bad the matchup is.
Tyranitar-Yes they can KO my Zekrom, but usually the first is KO'd after I have a 3 prize lead built, Megaton Tail is not exactly easy to setup, so therefore Zekrom is favored, also not too hard to mess that deck up either, especially taking into consideration all the energy they take to attack and I can judge away some of those energies.
Cinccino-You take into account their disruption, but not these two things
1). I get Setup b/4 they do, regardless of Party Face version or not.
2). It's not like I can't disupt them either, so imagine this, i go first, get Zekrom, they go and I judge. Good luck getting 3 stage ones setup....
So that's why it is Slightly Favorable, the deck while being quick needs a fair amount of setup to truly start locking and attacking.
ArZona-Thanks for helping me explain.
Bullados-Thanks and in my group's testing we have been going back and forth on whether or not Zekrom has an auto win v. LostGar, that in itself should illustrate how bad the matchup is.
CFOURCOLTSFAN
Active Member
Rikko145-I only assumed to just give you an idea of how an early game could go, yes they only need a single dce but tbh the "combo" is just as easy to pull, and at worst ZPS will trade prizes, also when a t1 happens 80% of the time it's a safe bet and is still a better chance they starting w/ cleffa(about 50%), you are assuming you will start cleffa....I really think that matchup is about opinion, and I might just note it as even, also quick note Cinccino has to fill the bench and there are bound to some easy KO's there, Yanmega can get a KO on any baby and Cinccino unless it has a PP can't respond, so I feel Yanmega can actually be useful there.
The T-Tar matchup I think is the one that warrants more discussion tbh, and in most games a 2-3 prize lead is plausible, I will also note that if the Zekrom player plays Reversal that matchup swings a bit, so maybe even is a bit more fair but Zekrom still has a chance to donk.
The T-Tar matchup I think is the one that warrants more discussion tbh, and in most games a 2-3 prize lead is plausible, I will also note that if the Zekrom player plays Reversal that matchup swings a bit, so maybe even is a bit more fair but Zekrom still has a chance to donk.
Theorymon vs Theorymon match up: Very un-favorable! lol
CFOURCOLTSFAN
Active Member
ArZona-agreed lol,
lol,CFOURCOLTSFAN
Active Member
excalibur-I think that could depend on playstyle, but i like the junk arm working as many cards despite the drawbacks of it, FSL can work but i just prefer having as many options as possible and i think the junk arm does that. If you are concerned you could run another retrieval or revive.
Iowaboy-what?
Iowaboy-what?
You're not even a funny troll. Why does everybody with the machamp avatar have to spam.
Trollololol why dont you say something to add to the article or raise a question about Zekrom....?