Zpst bdif?

[Chompy]

The only hope that ZPST has against lock decks like Vileplume and Gothitelle are if 2 Oddish/2 Solosis/2 Gothitas are prized, and you knock them out right away with Bolt Strike T1.

Lets be honest here, Zekrom is a deck that does well during the beginning phase of the match, but once your opponent has everything setup, Zekrom losses steam and it takes forever to build up your bench. Also, having Pachi and Shaymini can easily take up your bench space and you have to rely on super scoop up to reuse Pachi/Shaymins power and to consume resources/bench space.

I hate scenarios like that when it's one sided >_>

 

[ajhawk]

I dunno, I think that ZPST would personally be my fourth choice for a deck right now behind the following:

1) tyRam: everything that ZPST has a positive match up against, tyRam also has a good match up. then, tyRam beats ZPST head to head. this is just the most consistent deck in the format right now.

2) PrimeTime: ZPST beats PT head to head, but it has better match ups across the board. ZPST's auto losses are close to even match ups for PrimeTime.

3) Ross.dec: This deck, when properly teched to the meta, has a 50% match up or better against everything.

Than I would take ZPST.

 

[Bleak]

If Zekrom isn't BDIF, it's extremely close.

Zekrom's strength really relies on one thing; and that's taking the field by storm as fast as possible. For so many decks, that can be something that simply can't be caught up from. Especially with decks that only have the capability of attaching 1 energy per turn (i.e. no Emboar, Typhlosion, Pachi/Shaymin, Feraligatr, etc.), it has a HUGE advantage. Sure, it's just theorymon, but ideally, a ZPST player can pick off important Pokemon with Catcher, including those Pokemon with energy attached. Does it work every turn? No, but it only needs that once or twice to completely wreck somebody's set up.

Goth beats ZPST. It's not a 0-100 matchup like some make it seem, though. It's entirely possible to (like I mentioned above) take those prizes and key Pokemon before the Gothitelle player can do anything about it. Some ZPST players are teching in a single copy of Black Belt as well, to deal with the "bad" Gothitelle players who won't even out the prizes until the end, focusing on tanking with a single Gothitelle.

ZPST is a fantastic deck. It doesn't have a strong end game in the same way that Magneboar or Primtime, etc. has; but none of those have the early game that ZPST does.

 

[Ignatious]

It's not supposed to take it to late game your supposed to destroy there set up and if there is a late it should be because they set up walls however if they do manage to sett up then you probably loose like Luxchomp if it goes up and can't hinder them enough in the beginning then they loose but it was also much more consistent and had slot more speed and techs for bad games and that is why zpst does not win every game there is that game when it didn't get to turn one 80 and has to play the long game it is just like Luxchomp and it was tier one so is zpst if not bdif it is close runner up with second or third however it I'd not Luxchomp but it is his little brother
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Do not compare Zekrom to LuxChomp... They are not brothers. One is the apple tree, the other is the rotten banana peel.

You're missing my point. Zekrom scores a nice and shiny KO. The next turn or turn after he is KOed. Then what? Set up a Tornadus? Set up a Zekrom? Either way, you need to set something up, and it's clear that you've fallen behind. You've lost at your own game. Granted the opponent won't usually do this to an extreme consistency. This is where Zekrom beats bad hands, as I mentioned. Zekrom can do nothing to stop late game against a decent hand, however. It KOs whichever basic it wants, but if your deck isn't built to take that, then your deck needs serious adgustments.

 

[darth_vader]

Bad endgame. Zekrom does damage to itself. So, in the late game, Bolt Strike against powerful hitters like Reshiram leads to Zekrom KO.

In the early game, Zekrom can get away with the damage. Reshiram takes two energy to power up and if it cannot power up in time, Zekrom can 2HKO it.

 

[arMILO]

tornadus is bdif, not zekrom. turn one 80 with a dce is almost guaranteed, zekrom is there to one shot big hitters but tornadus get the first prize. true or no?

 

[Ghost Claydol]

To make a ZPST deck work you have to get Tornadus out first then let it power up zekroms or another tornadus.
It's not a bad deck and dose stand a chance in the metagame.

 

[cheezytacos]

Bad endgame. Zekrom does damage to itself. So, in the late game, Bolt Strike against powerful hitters like Reshiram leads to Zekrom KO.

In the early game, Zekrom can get away with the damage. Reshiram takes two energy to power up and if it cannot power up in time, Zekrom can 2HKO it.

zekrom can 2HKO it? is anyone forgetting plus powers? tyram decks basically function like zpst in the sense of self damage. after burner = 2 counters (usually 2 afterburners per turn) while bolt strike is 4 counters. no difference when you're comparing it to a resh vs zek matchup considering they both have the ability to knock each other out in the return ko. tyram AND zpst both run plus powers therefore they can one hit each other. the early bolt strike fuels out rage for the first 2-4 turns of a game leading to almost a prize a turn with catchers or just low hp basics up front as well.


zekrom also isn't really made for lategame. it can last if it needs to, but its goal is to keep you from setting up. strong early game leads to your opponent not even surviving til late game.

 

[Rambo1000]

Do not compare Zekrom to LuxChomp... They are not brothers. One is the apple tree, the other is the rotten banana peel.

You're missing my point. Zekrom scores a nice and shiny KO. The next turn or turn after he is KOed. Then what? Set up a Tornadus? Set up a Zekrom? Either way, you need to set something up, and it's clear that you've fallen behind. You've lost at your own game. Granted the opponent won't usually do this to an extreme consistency. This is where Zekrom beats bad hands, as I mentioned. Zekrom can do nothing to stop late game against a decent hand, however. It KOs whichever basic it wants, but if your deck isn't built to take that, then your deck needs serious adgustments.

you know, being this confident probably means you're getting t1'd by zekrom round 1 of regionals, jussayin.

 

[N plasma]

It works like this
A little kid goes to the beach and looses his parents he decides to go for a swim and before you know it a huge wave comes and knocks him down then the kid tries to stand up but littler waves keep knocking down when he tries to get up an under cetches him and begens to drag him put further and without anyone to help him he drowns
Like tzps it is a rush it knocks them off there feet and makes sure they can't get up
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---------- Post added 10/25/2011 at 05:01 AM ----------

tornadus is bdif, not zekrom. turn one 80 with a dce is almost guaranteed, zekrom is there to one shot big hitters but tornadus get the first prize. true or no?

I completely agree
Posted with Mobile style...

 

[BRUTE]

Everyone keeps pointing out the single dificulty that Zekrom does self damage. TyRam does self damage because of After Burner, Ross does self damage because of Donphan, yet no one seems to be giving Zpst a fair chance. Furthermore, it shouldn't be played as ZpsT it should be played as TZps. When I play it what I make the main strategy is quickly having Tornadus doing 80 consecutively while catchering basics and stage 1 pokemon which will help my opponent set up. The way I play it, Zekrom is only really in there for the late game to take the last 2-3 prizes once my opponent is set up and my Tornadus can no longer handle the job.

I personally don't believe that TZps is BDIF, i think that the format is still developing but ATM it is jockying for the Place of Bdif with TyRam.

Ninja'd, didn't see the second page

 

[Mazu]

It works like this
A little kid goes to the beach and looses his parents he decides to go for a swim and before you know it a huge wave comes and knocks him down then the kid tries to stand up but littler waves keep knocking down when he tries to get up an under cetches him and begens to drag him put further and without anyone to help him he drowns
Like tzps it is a rush it knocks them off there feet and makes sure they can't get up
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---------- Post added 10/25/2011 at 05:01 AM ----------



I completely agree
Posted with Mobile style...

No, it doesn't work like that. The whole format isn't clunky stage 2 decks which needs a lot of turns to set up where Zekrom/Tornadus can take out anything on the field. And those that are only need to set up a single stage 2 to completely shut a Zekrom-deck down. You may kill a basic or two, but those who have adapted to this format know that they have to spam basics (for example 3 Cyndaquil) to have a chance to set up a Typhlosion, and you can only take out a single Cyndaquil next turn. Then they should get a Reshiram going which will take out your Zekrom and put you way further back than they were by losing a single Cyndaquil. ZPST is a very good deck, I'm sure, but it's certainly not a definite BDIF an I'm actually surprised at how many BRs it has taken.

And for the love of grammar, use punctuation.

 

[N plasma]

No, it doesn't work like that. The whole format isn't clunky stage 2 decks which needs a lot of turns to set up where Zekrom/Tornadus can take out anything on the field. And those that are only need to set up a single stage 2 to completely shut a Zekrom-deck down. You may kill a basic or two, but those who have adapted to this format know that they have to spam basics (for example 3 Cyndaquil) to have a chance to set up a Typhlosion, and you can only take out a single Cyndaquil next turn. Then they should get a Reshiram going which will take out your Zekrom and put you way further back than they were by losing a single Cyndaquil. ZPST is a very good deck, I'm sure, but it's certainly not a definite BDIF an I'm actually surprised at how many BRs it has taken.

And for the love of grammar, use punctuation.

Sorry for the punctuation I was in a hurry before school. However I do think that is how it works and even if it's not a set up deck it still uses energy, ( except yanmega) so you can knock there energy down. They only get one attachment at the beginning to your 3, they can't keep up no matter how many evolutions they have.
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[jeffrey123]

I dunno, I think that ZPST would personally be my fourth choice for a deck right now behind the following:

1) tyRam: everything that ZPST has a positive match up against, tyRam also has a good match up. then, tyRam beats ZPST head to head. this is just the most consistent deck in the format right now.

2) PrimeTime: ZPST beats PT head to head, but it has better match ups across the board. ZPST's auto losses are close to even match ups for PrimeTime.

3) Ross.dec: This deck, when properly teched to the meta, has a 50% match up or better against everything.

Than I would take ZPST.

All you do is post about tyram. It's not BDIF so relax. Goth destroys it, and so does Ross. ZPST goes 50/50 with Tyram BTW

 

[fabulousTaz]

The format hasn't really developed enough to have a true BDIF. We are so use to having a clear BDIF that we hate to use the term for the current decks because they have bad match ups to other popular decks.

As far as Tornadus being BDIF, it is just isn't that much of a gap. Overall it has better match ups then Ty, and them head to head is pretty even. Tornadus hits too fast and maintains board control, it's ability to blitz bad match ups compared to tyram and consistantcy is why I consider it BDIF. Not by a big margin though.
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[cabd]

Tier one:ZPST, Tyram
Tier 1.5: Primetime, Goth
Tier two: DDD, mewbox (inc ymca), stage one rush, yamato.dek, magneboar
Tier three: Blastzel, leafeon/roserade, hand disruption decks, donchamp
Tier four: Rew.dek (Scolipede) etc
Tier five: theme decks with staple trainers
Tier six: everything else, realy
Tier seven: off-the-shelf theme decks
Tier eight: Joltik Swarm, Sea Blaster

All my personal opinions, of course.

 

[N plasma]

I think we all agree that this should be Tzps that we are talking about being a possible contestant for bdif.
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[gallade]

Do not compare Zekrom to LuxChomp... They are not brothers. One is the apple tree, the other is the rotten banana peel.

You're missing my point. Zekrom scores a nice and shiny KO. The next turn or turn after he is KOed. Then what? Set up a Tornadus? Set up a Zekrom? Either way, you need to set something up, and it's clear that you've fallen behind. You've lost at your own game. Granted the opponent won't usually do this to an extreme consistency. This is where Zekrom beats bad hands, as I mentioned. Zekrom can do nothing to stop late game against a decent hand, however. It KOs whichever basic it wants, but if your deck isn't built to take that, then your deck needs serious adgustments.

Theorymon =! Success
Results == success, at least more than Theorymon.
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[untitled]

All you do is post about tyram. It's not BDIF so relax. Goth destroys it, and so does Ross. ZPST goes 50/50 with Tyram BTW

After testing, I really believe Zekrom has a positive TyRam matchup.

As far as Zekrom goes, it has pretty strong matchups (50-50 +) against the whole format, barring Reuniclus, Magneboar and arguably Yanmega/Magnezone (stupid PlusPower recoil...) However, Magneboar and Vileplume/Reuniclus are hardly popular enough in most places to make them realistic threats when deciding on a deck. Yanmega/Magnezone is nowhere near un-winnable, and running an extra Defender or two can "fix" the matchup a little.

As far as Gothitelle, that's a much bigger problem. Relicanth/Mew is an obvious answer, but it gets in the way of consistency. Honestly, there's no real answer to it except to donk it or win on time. Or I suppose devote 3-4 tech spots for it.

So I honestly think Zekrom would be one of the top contenders for BDIF if we really had to decide on one. It has its issues for sure, but no deck in the format is perfect. Zekrom's speed and consistency really do make it attractive in this format. The people saying it fizzles late-game should consider upping their Tornadus count and start attacking with it earlier.

 

[ajhawk]

All you do is post about tyram. It's not BDIF so relax. Goth destroys it, and so does Ross. ZPST goes 50/50 with Tyram BTW

Bro, I have posted about more than tyRam. Heck, I even lay off quite a few of the tyRam threads.

I never in that post said it was BDIf. I have mentioned several times that Goth and Ross run rampant over tyRam (i believe in the past I have used terms like destroy, own, dominate, etc.). I would say that ZPST is not quite 50/50 against tyRam, but that is another conversation.

Get off my back.