elekid_957
New Member
ouch that sucks... i don't really like this format that much either, it's not that hard to play stuff, but there are way to many donks in this format, last format a game went to 30 mins usually, now it goes about 5..
Yeah, I must agree with Joner. I played 16 basics and 4 roseanne this past weekend and I get t2ed by an uxie due to an unown G start with 6 trainers.There is no way a better player could play their way out of that scenario nor is their any way to avoid a donk in this game unless you opt to do something rediculous like play a cyrus when you see a horsea or machop on the opposing side.
Makes me think it's strange how Mathorn1 already won the thread and people still keep finding it okay that Donks exist for some weird reason.
I have to say that I've been Donk a lot of times and that it says something bad about the game and the players in general. Look at the Organized play area and see how many have won with Macheap.
People that want to win shall play it, skill or no skill since luck isn't a part of Donking. This sucks for the people with skill that want to be able to surpass that T1 but thanks to the Donkfest (Like it is in Holland), the game stops being fun more and more as you get continued to get Donked.
I wonder, should I stay and play a game where Donking keeps being possible, in the hope that they stop making Donk cards (OR BANNING THEM) at some moment in time, or should I have a brain and find something else, more useful way to spend my time instead of playing games that end on T1.
I wouldn't call them noobs, rather just greedy players who don't care for good games.
Regardless, I'm just gonna bring my DS with Platinum and GTA to the next tournament so I can have something to do after super-short games.
What a remarkably unkind thing to say!I know, I know. Still, I don't think I'd want to hang out with such noobs. Since this format seems to be filled with noobs (Loads of people without skill that resort to Donk decks), I am starting to wonder if the game is worth the time I spend in getting cards to create my deck that I want to play @ tournaments.
Again, this is unkind and uncalled for. There is no reason to think that newer players aren't as intelligent as experienced players, and skill needs to be developed through experience.I was wondering if there is a more useful way to spend my time at tournies without getting Donked. But I guess there isn't. And without a way to make the game more balanced, there is no way there is chance for the few players that have actual brains and skill. Just my 2 cents.
That sounds like some mighty bad luck. But again, luck is part of the game. It's a simple matter of probability. Even if you ran 54 basics, there's still a chance, tiny though it may be, that you'd get donked.Tell me, how could the Obama player prevent this from happening despite his 17 (!) cards of which any combination of 2 would've saved him, knowing that game 2 went his way despite yet another T1 Macheap?
i agree. o ya, dusknior DP is still a good tech to use, and people use torterra lvl.x in the torrterrific decks. so there are some cards from those sets used still (though not as much.)Seriously? This is one of the most diverse formats since DX-On. But you say that this format is worse than the reign of Blaziken ex and cruel tyranny of GG/Plox?
This is the format in which the Japanese play, which is supposed to be superior to the modified formats that PUI comes up with. This format is no good either? Should we rotate even if the Japanese stay with DP-On?
Does anyone still use cards from the DP, MT, SW sets, or are those more or less outdated now?
I'd say that this format has so many ways to search and draw is where the problem is. The one-per-turn Supporter rule just isn't restrictive enough anymore since so many powers allow draw and search.
Prof Clay,
No need to pull out the thesaurus here to question other people's intelligence, when a simple "aware" would have been just fine. I think it actually has the opposite effect than the one you desired
We realize that if there was no Machamp, SP decks would be stronger (completely disagree with "simply dominate")...what we are suggesting is allowing people a greater chance of surviving the first turn of the game. I'm pretty sure Machamp would still be rampant even if you couldn't play Rare Candy on your first turn. Or, like you said, having 2 or more basics at the beginning of the game regardless.
Going over your post again it seems that your main point is not the chance of getting T1d, but the potential of bad/slow starts with Unown G and Uxie and Azelf and Pokemon like that.
..Unfortunately, this is not really the topic of discussion here.
You are missing the point if you are referring to the fact that Azelf or Uxie or unown G are bad starters because they arent our ideal attackers...I don't think many people are complaining about that risk, we accept that, playing those cards. If anything, running cards like unown G and Uxie and Azelf help us avoid T1 donks...which is the main point of all this discussion; bad starts are not really a concern as they will happen occasionally regardless.
What we do not accept is the high possibility of losing t1 (to ANY deck) regardless which basic we start with.
What we do not accept is the incredible impact the roll at the beginning of the game has on the outcome of the match.
What we do not accept is the high possibility of losing t1 (to ANY deck) regardless which basic we start with.
What we do not accept is the incredible impact the roll at the beginning of the game has on the outcome of the match.
When I’ve been talking Pokemon with folks, the issue of donks has come up in conversation a number of times recently. It also appears here on the Gym in a number of threads. It’s rather obvious that a lot of people simply don’t like the donk cards with various reasons why.
Yet these cards keep appearing in set after set. Kingdra, Machamp, and now Rampardos in Platinum.
Last night it made me realize that the card designers must be creating these monsters for a reason. From a game design perspective they must see something good about having donk cards around.
So I tried to reverse engineer this thing and asked myself, “What is good about having donk cards?”
1. Donks are exciting, especially to the younger players. I’ve watched my kids in lots of games. They love getting a donk win. “Dad, I knocked him out on the first turn!!!!” Heck they love donking me more than anyone else. Having big impressive donkers is actually a draw to the game for some kids, and let us not forget who the game has to attract if it is it keep growing.
2. Donks are fast. This actually has good consequences in casual play. Last night for example I was playing a game on RedShark, had a dead opening, and got donked. My opponent and I just shrugged it off and played another game. But this means that we played two games instead of one ... we were actually playing more because of the donk. My observation is that the same thing happens all the time in casual play. After a donk opponents will tend to play again leading to more actual games being played.
In some of the Japanese events fast play can be a good thing as well. Tego reported about Japanese “Challenge Arena” style events where fast play would seem to help things move along.
3. Donks bring more luck into the game. This is actually one of the things many skilled players seem to hate, but I have to wonder if it is good for the game overall. If Pokemon were like chess we would see the same faces winning again and again. To an extent we still do, but luck ensures that new faces always have some sort of a chance in a match. And NOTHING inspires someone to practice more and become more skilled than winning. Thinking that you have a realistic chance of winning is very motivating and ensures that more new people will actually play the game.
4. Donk cards affect how decks are built. Since I’ve started playing the trend seems to be that trainers are becoming a bit less powerful and Pokemon are taking over a lot of what the more powerful trainers used to do. Laprass takes over for Castaway for instance. The trend seems to be to make the game focus more on the Pokemon than the trainers (after who would play “trainermon”). Donk cards do this a bit as well. They encourage people to build decks with more basic Pokemon emphasizing that part of the game.
5. Donk cards actually help balance the competitive format. I honestly don’t think that the new SP Pokemon would be balanced at all if we didn’t have something like Machamp in format. These cards are shaping up to be our new delta type cards with their own specialized trainer lines and more. Back in the delta days MOST good decks were build around the delta cards and it was hard to play non-delta decks. We pretty much have to have cards like Machamp and Rampardos to pose a threat to these SP cards in order to help keep other non-SP Pokemon a viable choice in competitive play.
I don’t know how much of this was actually taken into account by the lab guys when they were cooking up, say, Machamp, but I do think that they must have at least some of these in mind.
Donking does have downsides.
It’s frustrating to donk or to be donked at a premier event where you only get to play an opponent once. I would much rather play a 20 minute game than a 2 minute one especially after all the trouble my opponent and I have gone through to create decks and drive to an event to play them. Unlike casual play you don’t get a second game in our system.
I also think that donks really do skew the ranking system we use internationally. The more luck you put into the game the less meaningful “expected” wins and losses become and the less accurate rankings are as a measure of who is consistently good.
But maybe ... just maybe the issue isn’t the donk cards but the system we play. For instance if we did best 2 out of 3 in Swiss as they do in parts of Europe then donking would still have an impact, but it would be lessened. It's only an example, but it's one that I think shows that the problem may not be just the donk cards themselves, which always seems to be the first thought that leaps to mind.
Food for thought.