Will Nationals be in St.Louis in 2010?
- Thread starter atomant
- Start date
Rogue Archetype
Moderator <br> Contest Host
I hope the discussion in this thread encourages PUI to continue to offer the event in the St. Louis location.
It's a 16 - 20 hour drive for us, but we enjoyed every minute of it
It's a 16 - 20 hour drive for us, but we enjoyed every minute of it
I'll be the first one to say that I felt the overall experience was SIGNIFICANTLY worse than at Origins.
As a disclaimer, I live in Ohio, about 3 hours from Columbus. I'm not saying this because I didn't like the distance. That is honestly irrelevent to me. I didn't do the driving.
My issues come from the fact that downtown St Louis had nothing to do. Food was extremely difficult to get. The Holiday Inn were rude in regards to people playing cards anywhere, or just generally having fun. I honestly missed the whole convention atmosphere. This year, you had the option of Nationals, the Prof Cup, the big side event, and league play and pick up tournaments. There were SO many more options at Origions every year, the convention center was open 24/7, there were TONS of food options, the vender hall was fantastic, and you could play in other random events around the convention. I had a blast at this years event, because of the people. The event itself I felt didn't come close to living up to the standards set by previous years. I also REALLY didn't like Gathering Ground's presence at the event. They were rude when dealing with customers and many times, didn't offer close to the deals that they were advertising prior to the event. On the boards they advertised that they care about their PR, but they certainly didn't act like it at the venue in the least. I was trying to talk to the guy and sell some cards and the packs from the Professor Cup I'd won, and a kid asked me how much I wanted for the packs in front of him, and I told him I'm not going to sell him packs,a nd that at the very least, don't try to sell or buy cards right in front of the official venue. I was going out of the way to try and be as professional and nice as possible, MAINLY as a means to get better deals on my cards, but I was actively trying to present myself well regardless. My collection, totaled up using the average price from those listed on the Pokegyms price guide ( medium, not high ) came out to about 2000 dollars. Their offer? 145 dollars. I decided to go and sell individual cards instead, and the guy ( the bald one ) got flustered, angry, and said never mind, I don't want to buy anything. I don't know if their intent was to only buy cards if they could offer absurd rip off prices, even in terms of retail store buying prices or not, but even if thats the case, they didn't have to be so extremely rude when dealing with customers. I don't like the fact that they insult the intelligence of the players at the store. Its not unreasonable to expect to get at least 1/3rd the value of a card, but when they offer you 6 bucks for a Luxray lvl X, the most in demand card at the event, thats just a slap in the face. Toss in the fact that I saw them offer a buck fifty to someone for a booster back, to have them say no thanks, that they can get 2 dollars for them later, they threatened to get them kicked out of the event. So someone isn't allowed to sell a card to another player at the event that they are friends with? If I needed a Claydol, and my friend said he'd give me one for 10 bucks, am I supposed to be afraid some vendors going to than kick me out of the event? Whats next, they don't want us trading because that person who needs the card could have bought it from them? I HIGHLY suggest either a change of vendor at any future Nationals, or open selling. I'd rather buy from StrikeZone, or Troll and Toad, or Cardhaus, or even ShuffleandCut than from Gathering Ground after this weekends experiences.
None the less, from PUI's perspective, I don't think they are going to go back to Origins due to price issues,a nd they don't want to deal with the complications of working with the convention. I don't blame them, as most of the other gaming companies have grown fed up with it too. I do think that it'll be very difficult to match the overall experience offered by Origins though.
I do have one suggestion though. In the future, try not to schedule Nationals the same weekend as Origins, and Worlds the same weekend as Gen Con. There are players who'd love to attend both. I'm sure it wouldn't ruin the scheduling of events to shift it off by one weekend. I know other players who'd greatly appreciate this as well.
As a disclaimer, I live in Ohio, about 3 hours from Columbus. I'm not saying this because I didn't like the distance. That is honestly irrelevent to me. I didn't do the driving.
My issues come from the fact that downtown St Louis had nothing to do. Food was extremely difficult to get. The Holiday Inn were rude in regards to people playing cards anywhere, or just generally having fun. I honestly missed the whole convention atmosphere. This year, you had the option of Nationals, the Prof Cup, the big side event, and league play and pick up tournaments. There were SO many more options at Origions every year, the convention center was open 24/7, there were TONS of food options, the vender hall was fantastic, and you could play in other random events around the convention. I had a blast at this years event, because of the people. The event itself I felt didn't come close to living up to the standards set by previous years. I also REALLY didn't like Gathering Ground's presence at the event. They were rude when dealing with customers and many times, didn't offer close to the deals that they were advertising prior to the event. On the boards they advertised that they care about their PR, but they certainly didn't act like it at the venue in the least. I was trying to talk to the guy and sell some cards and the packs from the Professor Cup I'd won, and a kid asked me how much I wanted for the packs in front of him, and I told him I'm not going to sell him packs,a nd that at the very least, don't try to sell or buy cards right in front of the official venue. I was going out of the way to try and be as professional and nice as possible, MAINLY as a means to get better deals on my cards, but I was actively trying to present myself well regardless. My collection, totaled up using the average price from those listed on the Pokegyms price guide ( medium, not high ) came out to about 2000 dollars. Their offer? 145 dollars. I decided to go and sell individual cards instead, and the guy ( the bald one ) got flustered, angry, and said never mind, I don't want to buy anything. I don't know if their intent was to only buy cards if they could offer absurd rip off prices, even in terms of retail store buying prices or not, but even if thats the case, they didn't have to be so extremely rude when dealing with customers. I don't like the fact that they insult the intelligence of the players at the store. Its not unreasonable to expect to get at least 1/3rd the value of a card, but when they offer you 6 bucks for a Luxray lvl X, the most in demand card at the event, thats just a slap in the face. Toss in the fact that I saw them offer a buck fifty to someone for a booster back, to have them say no thanks, that they can get 2 dollars for them later, they threatened to get them kicked out of the event. So someone isn't allowed to sell a card to another player at the event that they are friends with? If I needed a Claydol, and my friend said he'd give me one for 10 bucks, am I supposed to be afraid some vendors going to than kick me out of the event? Whats next, they don't want us trading because that person who needs the card could have bought it from them? I HIGHLY suggest either a change of vendor at any future Nationals, or open selling. I'd rather buy from StrikeZone, or Troll and Toad, or Cardhaus, or even ShuffleandCut than from Gathering Ground after this weekends experiences.
None the less, from PUI's perspective, I don't think they are going to go back to Origins due to price issues,a nd they don't want to deal with the complications of working with the convention. I don't blame them, as most of the other gaming companies have grown fed up with it too. I do think that it'll be very difficult to match the overall experience offered by Origins though.
I do have one suggestion though. In the future, try not to schedule Nationals the same weekend as Origins, and Worlds the same weekend as Gen Con. There are players who'd love to attend both. I'm sure it wouldn't ruin the scheduling of events to shift it off by one weekend. I know other players who'd greatly appreciate this as well.
Oh, I agree with you: Origins would be better, but I just want to start planning ahead. Booking a room at Ohio fills up quick so does St.Louis.
I haven't been to any previous nationals to compare it to but I did enjoy it in St. Louis. I completely agree with what you said about the vendor. That bald guy was beyond rude and he seemed to be the only one of them that knew anything. After multiple times saying they would buy anything they looked through two of my binders and said they didn't want anything except for 4 cards and then they offered me less than half of what those cards sell for. I also got less money for my bulk stuff then advertised and I didn't want to buy any singles because I can get them online cheaper at troll and toad and I only have to pay a dollar in shipping. I also lold when somebody asked them if they had booster boxes and the guy goes ya we have all of them and she then asks for a Legends Awakened box to which he says they didn't have any lol.
This was my first Nats, and I was disappointed. St. Louis was a complete ghost town and everything was closed on saturday when we went looking for food. Well, except Hooters and a chinese place. We had to opt for the chinese since we had a 10 year old with us. I don't mind if Nats moves around, I just hope it isn't in St. Louis anymore.
and everything was closed on saturday when we went looking for food. Well, except Hooters and a chinese place. We had to opt for the chinese since we had a 10 year old with us. I don't mind if Nats moves around, I just hope it isn't in St. Louis anymore.
This was my first Nats, and I was disappointed. St. Louis was a complete ghost town
You do know that Hooters is classified as a family restaurant.
the_sniper
New Member
For the 1st time in a while, I pretty much agree with Chris's post( pick self off of floor lol)
The food thing was a joke to be honest. My hotel didn't have a kitchenette, so I was at the mercy of
the city. Walking 5-7 blocks to eat every meal got old quick.Also, I have been to a lot of cities and - no offense to the people who live there- but if you thought Origins had some funky smells then walk downtown St. Louis and get back to me. Across the street( and most of the city ) reeked of the smell of urine and feces( mostly the former though).Cabies were insane too, found exactly 1 who spoke english all weekend. I prefer "contained" events where we can sleep, eat and play at the same place.Or walk across the street and eat.
The holiday inn was rude to the players who congrigated in the lobby- something i have never seen at the Hyatt at Origins. A playroom for us would have been nice imho. Playing/trading rooms are nice.
As for jason and the gathering ground, my biggest fears were realized. $10. for the croak and $10 for the guide?? Also, imo due to lack of competition, their buy prices were a joke for the most part ( see luxray x for example).And who sells packs of 50 sleeves at a Pokemon event?!?! With no competition he was the only game in town and they showed it with their prices on key game cards.
The event was awesome, and even though a LOT of us do not like this format I still had a great time. Just not as much fun as I have had at the party in Columbus.
I did like the free admission ( although I have had to buy only 1 Origins badge in my life) and I think this may somewhat explain the attendance spike, but I don't know for sure as attendance has been up all year.
I luv ya Vince, you and your staff did a great job, but I wont be back to St. louis .Unless PUI insists on coming back there.
Also, the room seemed HUGE to me, until 2000 players , family and friends showed up. The security broke our chops and threatened to pull the plug and I even heard Dave threaten disciplinary action for those who didn't clear the isle. I understand fire codes. but we can't stay in the play area,so where were we supposed to go??
Again, great event,but I just feel some things should have been done differently to make the players more happy and comfortable. And next year PLEASE either let us sell cards amonst each other ( like we have for years) or get some free market going and add 2-3 venders. The cache( Kansas City) showed up with free t-shirts and sleeves, that was cool. Maybe next year they ( or others) could show up and offer us free market- especially on key game cards players needed.
Also, early registration was genius!! Made life a LOT easier Saturday.
These guys are really good at fixing what didn't work the 1st time the next. I expect this will be the case hear .
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Naki Feralkin
New Member
I'm not saying to move the venue back to Origins myself, but I'm totally getting the "ghost town" atmosphere myself. I think my whole weekend there consisted of one trip out to the Loop (which wasn't bad), some of Forest Park, and from the hotel back to the con center. I wasted almost my entire lunch break for Nationals walking with 2 other people in the sweltering St. Louis heat TRYING TO FIND AN ATM, since apparently the con center people have no idea the concept of direction, they sent me a completely wrong way and I ended up not getting a snack or drink at all. (Also, the one in the con center was down. Maintenance much?)
There was also like no food in walking distance, so I borderline starved myself until the days end in which I scarfed down hotel food or Pizza.
Don't get me wrong, I think the event itself was superb, but I think the city itself left much to be desired. Least here in Columbus there was food in the con center itself as well as plenty of places in walking distance.
Also, I hear the Gathering Ground complaints too. I had no intention of dealing with such rude people.
There was also like no food in walking distance, so I borderline starved myself until the days end in which I scarfed down hotel food or Pizza.
Don't get me wrong, I think the event itself was superb, but I think the city itself left much to be desired. Least here in Columbus there was food in the con center itself as well as plenty of places in walking distance.
Also, I hear the Gathering Ground complaints too. I had no intention of dealing with such rude people.
Jaimonster
New Member
...Im gonna go for the kill and ask PUI to bring Nationals to Denver...
Because, um... I dont really have a good reason.
But I guess its more centrical? What other options are there?
Because, um... I dont really have a good reason.
But I guess its more centrical? What other options are there?
I couldn't possibly agree more on this point right here! Nats had 1200+ players, that's great, but there's a lot of bridges getting burned in the process. I was at Origins, and the general consensus of dealers that I talked to is that POP is coming off NOT in a very good light. Not necessarily for moving Nats from Origins, but (despite the "claims" coming from higher up) intentionally scheduling it the very same weekend. The same holds true for Worlds as well. Had it been one year that Worlds was the same weekend as GenCon, it could have been very easily played off as a coincedence. But TWO straight Worlds, in addition to the first Nats away from Origins? IMO that's just flat out snubbing. I'm not saying "move Nats back to Origins and have Worlds at GenCon" (but I definitely wouldn't complain if that DID happen! lol). I'm just saying that the intentional snubbing of the cons should be stopped, and the events should NOT be intentionally scheduled on those two weekends.
Another suggestion I had before Nats (and still believe) is having more than one dealer. Just from reading what people have said about GG at Nats, it looks I was right on that one. There are other game dealers that could have set up at Nats, and possibly even setting up at both Nats AND Origins (I know of at least one dealer that has done two shows in different places in the same weekend, and GG is NOT the one I'm talking about.).
But, $20 says Nats 2010 is already planned for June 23-27 (the same weekend as Origins 2010). An additional $10 says someone at POP is writing me a not-so-nice email as we speak!
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Deus_Ex_Machina
New Member
Yeah, despite the negativity in my post, I really don't want this to come off as aggressive towards PUI, or the people who did like the location. Like John said, PUI has done a FANTASTIC job of rectifying mistakes or errors in the past, so even if they do make a few questionable decisions, they've been great with fixing them, which is why I want people to voice their opinions here and hopefully things can be improved upon.
On a side note, I wanted to say I felt that the staffing was MUCH better this year than the past few years, and that I heard very few complaints from players about any of the judges. I'm glad to see the progression. So while I feel that some things took a hit, many others improved ( such as early registration...and still, loving the flights )
One thing I want to point out is that I don't blame PUI for leaving Origins, and I expected there to be some growing pains when making the transition. Its just how to make improvements from year to year that matters. So hopefully things improve next year.
On a side note, I wanted to say I felt that the staffing was MUCH better this year than the past few years, and that I heard very few complaints from players about any of the judges. I'm glad to see the progression. So while I feel that some things took a hit, many others improved ( such as early registration...and still, loving the flights )
One thing I want to point out is that I don't blame PUI for leaving Origins, and I expected there to be some growing pains when making the transition. Its just how to make improvements from year to year that matters. So hopefully things improve next year.
hitmonchan93
New Member
Actually, I thought that the scary part was that the store was selling the guides for only $1... and the Toxicroak G promos for $9.75...
I agree with everything Ruiner said. The options were limited. Heck, during the dinner break (which was about an HOUR), my friends and I didn't find anywhere where we could eat in NEARLY enough time to get back. Even lunch (which was a LONGER break) was a huge hassle.
And yeah, the vendors were rude and ignorant. One of them asked me a question that led me to talk about Alex B (Big Chuck) that I dropped the joke about him being the 14-time Champ and an added line about him "beating Johnny Chan heads-up TWICE for the first two victories," and his reply was, "Seriously? He really did that?" LOL.
But yeah, the place was nice, but no vending hall, no good deals, nowhere to get food, and frankly not the best managed Nats I've seen, either. It's amazing that it was fun at all; Origins was a BLAST, one of the most fun weekends I ever had. This was good too, but WAY less enjoyable, accessible and advantageous.
My friends and I had a great lunch break during swiss rounds on Saturday. We picked up iced coffee at Starbucks, walked around the block and checked out the park, then got sandwiches, soup, salads, etc. at the St. Louis Bread Co. There was also a Hardee's and a TGI Friday's in the area, as well as a few non-chain restaurants and Hooters - all within a block or two of the convention center. I was really surprised that people had issues finding food.
Sunday night after top cut, we went out again to check out some more of the city and hit up the White Castle and Taco Bell down by the riverfront. We didn't see a whole lot going on, but there was live reggae music at a bar we passed, and skateboarding in the park at sunset.
As far as non-Pokemon gaming went, I went ahead and took matters into my own hands in the lobby and ballroom of the Holiday Inn, lending out the board games and card games I brought and teaching friends how to play them. Some other guys got a bunch of players together and ran a win-a-box tournament that night as well.
I love St. Louis, I loved the Pokemon events at the convention center, and I loved seeing all of my friends, but there were a lot of things missing this year. The vendor situation was bad. The lack of non-Pokemon gaming opportunities was bad. The accommodations for after-hours activities was bad.
Sunday night after top cut, we went out again to check out some more of the city and hit up the White Castle and Taco Bell down by the riverfront. We didn't see a whole lot going on, but there was live reggae music at a bar we passed, and skateboarding in the park at sunset.
As far as non-Pokemon gaming went, I went ahead and took matters into my own hands in the lobby and ballroom of the Holiday Inn, lending out the board games and card games I brought and teaching friends how to play them. Some other guys got a bunch of players together and ran a win-a-box tournament that night as well.
I love St. Louis, I loved the Pokemon events at the convention center, and I loved seeing all of my friends, but there were a lot of things missing this year. The vendor situation was bad. The lack of non-Pokemon gaming opportunities was bad. The accommodations for after-hours activities was bad.