Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Gengar Prime Not as Broken as it's Hype says??

that wont be of much use. lookers is way better then that making your opponent shuffle thier hand. this way if they dont have pokemon you can put some more for them:). banette wont be consistent though because your discarding your entire hand. and once again lookers or judge
 
gallade said:
I have one for you, bannette, discard everything, and move 7 damage to gengar prime, then sweep with it's attack :p
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Thank god, discarding your hand with no constant draw system and a poor field leads you to winning. Somebodies found a way to win against gengar....barring they run only 2 energy. :thumb:
 
indercarnive said:
that wont be of much use. lookers is way better then that making your opponent shuffle thier hand. this way if they dont have pokemon you can put some more for them:). banette wont be consistent though because your discarding your entire hand. and once again lookers or judge
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You could use Mime, then Hunter to pick up a Tomb if they don't have any Pokemon, then lost zone something, then drop tomb, then Mime, etc...
 
Mr. Mime could be a downer sometimes... Because you have to show your opponent your own hand, it allows them to know if you have the Lost Stadium or whatever its called...

That would also allow them to judge you when you need it most or just mess you up completely by somehow getting rid of your stadium...

I agree with Clearea on the noctowl... To me it would be better, because you dont have to show your hand...
 
gallade said:
I have one for you, bannette, discard everything, and move 7 damage to gengar prime, then sweep with it's attack :p
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And then you get to flip for gengars power.... and guess what you're now in the lost zone. Unsless the wording is changed


Because the way the current order is

you knock gengar out
you flip for power
tails you go to lostzone... Cause gengar prime is still active when you're knocked out, so.... to the lost zone both shuppet and banny go... Thats 2 outta 6
 
We know attack effects are resolved before Pokemon are pushed up, but are Power-Power effects resolved before then?
 
Well, he said to go to Gengar Prime....
Gengar Prime doesnt have a power like that does it? Im so confused xD
What power does he flip for? Can you please explain? xD
 
He means for Fainting Spell. The idea is that if Fainting Spell knocks them out and you promote Gengar Prime, the opponent will have to be Lost Zoned. But it seems to me that the two KOs should be resolved at the same time, so neither Pokemon is switched out before the other.
 
Oh ok... I was a bit confused on what he was talking about...
Its kind of like if Cursegar uses its attack and knocks out a pokemon, then you bring up Gengar prime.... What happens? haha
 
With Cursegar it makes sense: the attack effect is entirely resolved, THEN you check to see if things are knocked out, and when the KO happens, Gengar Prime is active.

With Gengar SF, Fainting Spell doesn't trigger until the KO check has already happened.
 
Muk Man said:
And then you get to flip for gengars power.... and guess what you're now in the lost zone. Unsless the wording is changed


Because the way the current order is

you knock gengar out
you flip for power
tails you go to lostzone... Cause gengar prime is still active when you're knocked out, so.... to the lost zone both shuppet and banny go... Thats 2 outta 6
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That's not how it should happen.
SF Gengar power is checked before he goes to the discard pile (so still on the active spot, powers don't activate in the discard pile). So flip, when heads both Gengar and the attacking pokemon go to the discard and thereafter both players promote a new active pokemon.

If you 'start' a power, you first finish that power before doing anything else.
 
Muk Man said:
And then you get to flip for gengars power.... and guess what you're now in the lost zone. Unsless the wording is changed


Because the way the current order is

you knock gengar out
you flip for power
tails you go to lostzone... Cause gengar prime is still active when you're knocked out, so.... to the lost zone both shuppet and banny go... Thats 2 outta 6
Click to expand...

Gengar SF has a self referencing Power that says 'Once during your opponent's turn, if [This Pokemon] would be knocked out by damage from an opponent's attack, you may flip a coin. If heads, the Defending Pokemon is Knocked Out.'

Banette PL's Darkness Switch attack is a 'Put" type of attack as it switches damage from Banette to the defending Pokemon (it doesn't do 'X' damage to the Pokemon) which would never trigger Gengar SF's Poke Power in the first place.

In a situation where Gengar SF is KO'd by damage, promoting the Gengar Prime after both KO's have been resolved isn't going to send the Pokemon that offed Gengar to the Lost Zone. I'm familiar with this ruling which I assume everyone is basing this silliness on:

Q. What happens if I Knock Out my opponent's Gengar using some kind of hit & run attack, but I bring up Glaceon Lv.X with the "Chilly Breath" Poke-BODY that shuts down Poke-Powers?
A. The Chilly Breath would shut off Gengar's Fainting Spell before it would have a chance to be used. (Jan 15, 2009 PUI Rules Team)
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But that's a completely different mechanic. Switching the Pokemon with a hit and run type of effect is something that happens during the attack phase, and before KO's are resolved. Promoting a new Pokemon is something that happens after KOs are resolved. The check for Gengar SF being Knocked Out and the check for Fainting Spell happen at the same time at the end of the Attack Phase. Gengar Prime would be promoted after that, thus no Lost Zone.

I don't see how experienced players, and even Professors, are getting these wrong.
 
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waynegg said:
Gengar SF has a self referencing Power that says 'Once during your opponent's turn, if [This Pokemon] would be knocked out by damage from an opponent's attack, you may flip a coin. If heads, the Defending Pokemon is Knocked Out.'

Banette PL's Darkness Switch attack is a 'Put" type of attack as it switches damage from Banette to the defending Pokemon (it doesn't do 'X' damage to the Pokemon) which would never trigger Gengar SF's Poke Power in the first place.

In a situation where Gengar SF is KO'd by damage, promoting the Gengar Prime after both KO's have been resolved isn't going to send the Pokemon that offed Gengar to the Lost Zone. I'm familiar with this ruling which I assume everyone is basing this silliness on:

But that's a completely different mechanic. Switching the Pokemon with a hit and run type of effect is something that happens during the attack phase, and before KO's are resolved. Promoting a new Pokemon is something that happens after KOs are resolved. The check for Gengar SF being Knocked Out and the check for Fainting Spell happen at the same time at the end of the Attack Phase. Gengar Prime would be promoted after that, thus no Lost Zone.

I don't see how experienced players, and even Professors, are getting these wrong.
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I was under the understanding that it all happens simultaneously Via all the ditto rulings.....
"There is not a time when you DON'T have an active pokemon" so at the time your opponent is KO'd
That gengar prime is your active pokemon....


Also The Duskanoir X rulings support this...
 
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Food for thought here. I have spoke with a Japanese man whom goes to my league, and often converses with different Japanese players, so as to see what is big over there. Now, this is all fine and dandy, but in passing conversation, I asked him if Gengar Prime is played a lot over there. He said that it is, and that it's good. But only good when it gets that "theorymon" hand if you will.

Now, I don't know about you, but Gengar Prime is held back by way to much to be the BDIF, let alone tier one. This is just my own things that I learned on 2chan, different Japanese players, and the man I mentioned earlier. In short, do not expect it to trounce SP, T-Tar. In fact, I see it being played for a Cities, and dying out, much like VileGar was.

Does this make sense to you, it doesn't deserve the hype that it gets. Of course, I am basing this off of Japan's own ideas, but let's face it, they've had the cards longer, so they may know a bit more than us.
 
Muk Man said:
And then you get to flip for gengars power.... and guess what you're now in the lost zone. Unsless the wording is changed


Because the way the current order is

you knock gengar out
you flip for power
tails you go to lostzone... Cause gengar prime is still active when you're knocked out, so.... to the lost zone both shuppet and banny go... Thats 2 outta 6
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the reason i said 7 was because it has 80 hp :p
 
So what is the ruling if Gengar SF gets knocked out? Does the Prime come into play or not. I see two different arguements here, but no concrete answer.
 
maddox23 said:
Food for thought here. I have spoke with a Japanese man whom goes to my league, and often converses with different Japanese players, so as to see what is big over there. Now, this is all fine and dandy, but in passing conversation, I asked him if Gengar Prime is played a lot over there. He said that it is, and that it's good. But only good when it gets that "theorymon" hand if you will.

Now, I don't know about you, but Gengar Prime is held back by way to much to be the BDIF, let alone tier one. This is just my own things that I learned on 2chan, different Japanese players, and the man I mentioned earlier. In short, do not expect it to trounce SP, T-Tar. In fact, I see it being played for a Cities, and dying out, much like VileGar was.

Does this make sense to you, it doesn't deserve the hype that it gets. Of course, I am basing this off of Japan's own ideas, but let's face it, they've had the cards longer, so they may know a bit more than us.
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Japan plays a totally different format from us... Gengar cant work as a 30 card deck because 1st they only play wit half the prizes, so getting 6 pokemon before they take 3 prizes in the lost zone is kinda hard especially when their is about 10 pokemon total in the deck.

Is gengar the fastest deck... NO but in a 60 card deck, it is the most consistent and hardest deck to beat it is really the only deck that has NO weakness, in order to beat it you have to outplay you opponent and hope they have bad luck, and hope you flip heads
 
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