A very interesting format is on the rise

Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by chriscobi634, Nov 4, 2007.

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  1. chriscobi634

    chriscobi634 New Member

    I"m currently taking a break from playtesting, and working on my D/P DS team. Mainly because there it's almost a month before I have a CC. But I haven't completely forgot about the TCG. I've been thinking about how some of the new Secret Wonders cards comboed with the rest of the format will affect the current Metagame. So without further delay here we go:

    Gallade (SW)- Tego has announced that he will be the Blissey counter. Not much more needs to be said when your beating the BDIF for ABRs. But I would like to see how it does against the rest of the Metagame since Tego is in a different format then us.

    Vibrava (SW)- This card will make one of our favorite cards playable again, Flygon Ex D. Combined with Memory Berry and Crystal Beach, you could run the Fly by itself. Maybe 1 or 2 techs but not as many as R-gon. (If this does get good, then I have naming right, Cobigon)

    Ampharos (SW)- A lot of hype surrounds this card mainly due to it's body. While it's a good body, I like it's attack better. It's like Empoleon but better energy requiment with LCC, allowing it to have more playability with other cards, and an auto 20 to any of your opponent's bench pokemon that has an energy; so it could be more then one and none of this flip stuff. The body could be easily controlled by your opponent who plays CC, but only for so long. A bad weakness since Lucario, and a few other fighting are popular but not too bad because of it's HP.

    S.W.A.T: Stadiums (mainly Crystal Beach) Vs. Windstorm/Warp Point And Tools battle - Around here, Ness and I have started playing Crystal Beach, while I know that around the nation many like to play Lake Barrier (which the name is kind of ironic to what the card does, anyway). Crystal Beach gives the few Exs or other Pokemon cards that are playable a counter to the DRE/Scramble decks. But those decks could also play their own stadiums; most that play other stadiums don't play windstorm, Empoleon and Lucario but those play Cess. Crystal disrupting bodies like Kingdra Ex D's Extra Smoke or Flygon Ex D's Sand Damage. Finally, you add windstorm/counter stadium/warp point to the mix for the decks that rely on both DRE/Scramble and Powers/Bodies, and we have ourselves a very interesting format.
    EDIT: I forgot to mention warp point before, especially with Lucario Lv. X being very popular as well as Cess. Crystal.

    Weavile - It has a great power and attack where it could be played a lot of different variants, free retreat so once it's done powering another pokemon on the bench it can just retreat after that, and on top of that it has a semi disruptive attack so in case your opponent looks like they are going to get far ahead of you, you can slow down their set-up. A great set up card so it'll be interesting to see which variants will have the most success.

    Feel free to add any cards and reasons you like those cards or input on matchups, analysis of S.W.A.T (stadium, windstorm and tool) battle, actual playability of a hype card or whatever for that matter.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2007
  2. Jason

    Jason New Member

    Cards I like from this set...
    Ampharos
    Gallade
    Gardevoir

    Gardevoir Lv.X
    Raikou
    Suicune
    ... Does that pokemon get POKEMON or ENERGIEs fro discard? Can a JP translator clarify this?
    Absol
    Electavire
    Magmortar
    Mothim
    Weavile
    Wormadam PC
    Wormadam SC
    Xatu
    Breloom
    Donphan
    Farfetch'd...
    SD scyther is back right? Man, i love that card so much.
    Kirlia
    Smeargle
    Vibrava
    Burmy PC
    Burmy SC
    Honchkrow Lv.X
     
  3. larllt

    larllt New Member

    Suicune gets pokemon.
     
  4. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    If people are going to list the pokemon they like, they need to list a reason or this will be considered a poll.

    Honestly, I don't consider Gallade the answer to Blissey. All Gallade does to Blissey is drop it's HP to 50. That is only doing 80 damage. Many pokemon can do 80 damage. And what's lame is how Gallade has to use it's second attack to KO Blissey once it's dropped it's HP, because it's first attack will do absolutely nothing to Blissey after it's been used once. Blissey can protect it's weakness with Holon Energy FF, so Gallade would have to flip over quite a few prizes to actually OHKO the Blissey. And it just two-hit KO's the Blissey, well a lot of pokemon can two-hit KO the Blissey.

    So IMHO, Gallade =! EoB (End of Blissey)
     
  5. chriscobi634

    chriscobi634 New Member

    that's what i was going for

    i think the reason gallade is the answer is because it does 80 to blissey for a DRE AND it switches it out. Which combined, is what owns blissey. Now blissey losses it's speed, is forced to have to have either a Holon WP + water or Holon FF + Fighting by T2 or T3. As fast as Blissey is I don't think it can have all that quick enough to counter both of Gallade's attacks. So once the first blissey is switch out, you keep doing it until you get 2 or 3 blissey at that and just sweep with the second Gallade with the second attack. Like I said all this has to be playtested in our format, since Gallade variants in Japan can also run Cursed Stone; bleeding out the Blissey. Other cards can hit blissey for 80 but at what expense and speed?
     
  6. ryanvergel

    ryanvergel New Member

    In our testing, unless Blissey hardcore DONKS the Gallade player he or she will lose. You have to get amazing wp+water rips, and draw into boosts and warps perfectly to stand a chance. Even then you're pretty much a goner.
     
  7. Black Mamba

    Black Mamba New Member

    Gallade is for sure a good card, but I think it's being overestimated when it comes to Blissey. If they play FF, you can't OHKO them with 2 flips. If they play WP, sonic blade is useless. That said, if they don't get their Holon energies out early, they're in for some pain.

    Arcanine will be an amazing card once DP4 comes out, what with that Mewtwo and all.

    Smeargle is cool, and trace actually has its useful moments. Dropping one out of nowhere and flipping heads on something like cluster bolt is fun.

    And then there's always the REAL Blissey counter in this deck...
     
  8. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    I forgot about the benching effect of Gallade's attack. I guess I could see why it would hurt Blissey. Blissey doesn't power up multiple attackers usually, it just powers a singular blissey and goes to down. When Gallade can DRE and reduce Blissey's HP to 50, then force it to the bench, it can really force unpowered pokemon active. What I wonder is how effective Gallade would be against something like Sableye or Blissey with a side-kick Pokemon that has free retreat (so it can free retreat after it gets sent up).
     
  9. chriscobi634

    chriscobi634 New Member

    well even then after the HP has been reduced to 50, and the bliss comes up again it's going to get 1 hit on the gallade probably 2. While Gallade is almost a 3HKO, while the Gallade can 2HKO the blissey or even OHKO.
     
  10. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    My concern would be early game for the Gallade deck. Blissey is going to get built T2 very frequently. How does the Gallade, which isn't going to see play until T3 or later most of the time combat a Blissey that gets the first shot?
     
  11. Mew

    Mew New Member

    This is kinda how I see it.

    The Big Four:
    Blissey/Arcanine
    Banette
    Ampharos+Stuff
    Gardy/Gallade decks

    BlisseyArcanine is exactly like moving Truk, only IMO a little more speedy.
    It focuses more on your Blissys, and then later bringing in the Arcanine to clean house.

    Banette is a harder hitter than Blissey on T2, and averages 80 every turn after.

    Ampharos, as you said has a fantastic body, as well as an amazing attack. It just needs someone to go with.

    Gardy/Gallade decks are going to get really popular. At my pre, if you pulled anything related to Gardy, you could trade it for just about anything. 1 Gallade for 2 Banettes and an Arcanine? Sick.
    Now as far as how good they will be, I'm not sure. To me you have to run just one or the other straight up if you want it to be any kind of consistant.

    All these decks plus the prominent ones from the Battle Roads seems to make this format the best one we've had since the LBS era.
     
  12. ryanvergel

    ryanvergel New Member

    Sacrifice stuff. Who cares. What does ANY non-T2 deck do vs a T2 deck? Bide time, set up, and overpower.

    This is no different from any other format.
     
  13. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    I don't see Blissey/Arcanine as being better than Blissey/Electivire. I played a ton of games with Blissey/Arcanine, and I only attacked with Arcanine and won the game with it once. If Arcanine only helps in 1/10 games, why run it when you could run something that could help in 1/5 games or maybe even every other game?

    It's a good combo, but I just don't think it's worth it. It would help a bit versus Gallade though, so who knows.
     
  14. mattalvis

    mattalvis New Member

    Here is a list of cool cards in the set...

    Gardevoir Lv X, Gardevoir, Gallade, Blastoise, Ampharos, Salamence, Arcanine, Furret, Weavile, Donphan, Smeargle, Roseanna's Research, and Suicune.

    Here is a list of how many of those cards are playable...

    Roseanne's Research.

    Ouch. Another set with a lot of ALMOST playable cards. Things like Gardevoir, Blastoise, Ampharos, and Salamence are just too slow for this format that is dominated by Stage 1 Pokemon. Furret and Weavile are interesting but are also clunk cards and disrupt the flow of your game. Donphan and Arcanine are good cards but don't have much to add to any other decks out there and I don't think are good enough to be the center of a deck. One exception might be Smeargle - this thing MUST be good, I am just not sure what you can play with it.

    Roseanne's Research is a great card and should replace Mentor in most non-Blissey decks, or even Blissey/Delcatty.
     
  15. JokerBoi

    JokerBoi New Member

    It would help ALOT in VS gallade if you were to play blissy RK9. RK9 does a auto switch for the first attack and you can play more FF and fire. It might have the best chance. Am I the only person in this world who likes sharpedo?
     
  16. Dark Umbreon

    Dark Umbreon New Member

    Hi Prime,

    Evil knievel decks such as Blissey use several trainers and supporters. Combine Gallade with Gardevior to use two supporters each turn. This compensates somehow for the fact that one needs to run a stage two deck. Gardevoir is also a nice finisher since it shuts down Poké-Powers which could be vital in some decks.
    The free retreater would be Weavile but until Moonlight Stadium and Darkrai are released in your format it is not a secure counter.

    Hi folks,

    Wormadam Plant:
    Another nice turn two attacker with a decent status effect. At the moment it seems to be best on it's own with three stadium cards and a sufficient amount of Windstorms to maintain health. Ideal stadium cards would be Beach and later on Dawn Stadium unless Grass and Water are common in the local environment.

    Weavile:
    Nice energy acceleration which works in various decks. The ability to turn offenders into darkness types is nice and becomes even better once Moonlight Stadium is released.

    Ralts evolution line:
    The entire line is nice. Gardevior's Poké-Power makes up for the fact that one needs to run a stage two decks because one is able to use two supporters each turn now to obtain needed cards from the deck.

    Magmortar:
    Nice Poké-Bodies and a decent sniper which works real well with a teched Magmortar Lv.X and some Warp Points. The first attack is nice and deals a reasonable amount turn two.

    Electivire:
    Combined with the older version and some Quick Balls and Mentors this could become real fast. Make sure to run four Cyclone Energy with him. Later on those can be removed in favor of Call Energy to obtain the needed basics faster and turn the Quick Balls into much more effective search cards.

    Honchkrow Lv.X:
    Nice addition to Murkrow swarm decks. The deck does need a second beatdown line. At this time Weavile seems to be the ideal choice but with the next set there will be Darkrai whoch is much more effective in Murkrow swarms due to the status attack.

    Arcanine:
    He is an emergency hitter in Blissey decks but forces them to run Windstorms to counter Cessation Crystal. Teched lone should suffice with the correct amount of draw and search cards.

    Banette:
    While not entire nice at the moment he could become much better with the release of Slowking in the next set since the two combined should enable a decent flow of Banette cards. Run the deck with both Cessation Crystal and Crystal Beach to slow the other side down. Once Banette with a Cessation Crystal attached has been defeated Slowking is able to activate it's Poké-Power and search for the new Banette to take vengance.

    Rosanne's Research:
    Nice basic energies and Pokémon search card for deck that do not benefit from discards.

    Hi chriscobi634,

    Stadium cards are not as common as they used to be at the moment. However Crystal Beach is awesome and enables one to slow down the other side in decks with low attack costs. Lake Boundary will be nice once the Eeveelution cards are released. Umbreon hands the entire line free retreat and cancels their weakness. With Lake Boundary this could be a nice four to six corners deck.

    Stadiums could become more common with the next set. Glacier to cancel the weakness on Wailord or even Dawn Stadium to ensure he is a reliable tank. Holon Energy should be used to cover his Gallade weakness. Moonlight Stadium is a real nice addition to both darkness and psychic type decks or all decks that run Weavile and have a reasonable amount of colorless attack costs.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2007
  17. fchangus2

    fchangus2 New Member

    I agree with Chrisco that Crystal Beach would be great to run in this format. I usually build / maintain 5-6 decks for testing purposes (some of the most popular decks in the format) and what I have noticed recently is the number of DREs and Scrambles and Boosts that appear to be in almost every single one of my decks. I guess this is understandable given the popularity of Blissey and the rarity of EXs in the format. I think if you can find a speed deck that can abuse Crystal Beach along with good disruption, it would do very well in the format.
     
  18. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    Crystal Beach would be a good counter to the format. The only problem is that you can only play it with decks that don't use Boost/DRE/Scramble. And in most cases, it's hard to keep up with decks that do run those energy if you aren't running them. So it's almost you have to run the special energy to keep up, and thus you can't run Crystal Beach. Kricketune is a deviation in this, because it only takes 2 energy at most, and it can get away with Crystal Beach in it. I don't know of many other decks that can abuse Crystal Beach.
     
  19. Scipio

    Scipio New Member

    Actually, I played Crystal Beach in Kingdra with great results (Ergo; winning Battle Roads). I suppose it all stands on how fast your big bulky pokes can set up without their special energy before you consider if you can use the Beach.
     
  20. Rai

    Rai <a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=

    Hi Bannette. Love that energyless attack for up to 80 damage (though the way to go seems to be place ~70 damage) Also love the 2 energy for 80 damage attack, and how well it combos with stuff like Minun.
     

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