Arceus (the pokemon)

[Austino]

Anyone would be happy to let your arceus have 140 Hp if it means two prizes. Especially when your damage output is still inferior to most decks in the format.

You can only run 4 first door, so you aren't going to be instantly having them in your hand every time you need them.

It's much simpler and faster to Rare Candy into a quick stage two and attack for low energy (kingdra, gengar, machamp, beedrill, charizard, etc) than it is to get out 6 different pokemon w/out claydol/uxie and STILL have draw power. You keep skirting that issue with theory.

The pokemon I mentioned sniping for 80 have everything to do with Arceus' attacks. When you max out at 80 damage and you are losing three energy to the lost zone, your attacks are terrible. I used the other pokemon as a comparison to show why Arceus is a terrible attacker.

To hit flygon for weakness, you have to be using the BASIC colorless Arceus, because the Lv. X counts as the same type as the stage under it. Flygon still has more options as far as attacking, because you are stuck using Metal Arceus attack to keep your arceus safe.

Arceus doesn't get around the 3 energy costs easily, because each arceus that gets KO'd in the active spot will have up to 3 energy on it, so between you sending three to the lost zone with heavenly spear and losing three for each KO, you can't keep up the energy unless you Rippling Wave each time to recover, which lets your opponent take more KO's.

There's no way that your initial 7 cards are going to set you up 6 arceus by T2 every game. Even in the games you could get setup, you can't recover fast enough without wasting an attack to get energy back out.

What do you do against Pitch Dark or Deafen? DGX completely ruins Arceus X. Machamp ruins the deck, Beedrill swarms it for 6 quick prizes. Expert belt only hurts Arceus against most decks. How do you plan to fit everything into the deck and keep it consistent? You have to stock up on several draw supporters to get anywhere.

All but one or two attacks out of ALL Arceus are decent, the rest are absolutely terrible, so i don't see how this even has a chance.

 

[prodigal_fanboy]

Arceus strikes me as the type of deck that, if it does actually have the substance to be highly viable, the 'Gym won't find out precisely how until halfway through the CC season. Until then, shiny and iffy.

 

[Sabett]

Anyone would be happy to let your arceus have 140 Hp if it means two prizes. Especially when your damage output is still inferior to most decks in the format.

You can only run 4 first door, so you aren't going to be instantly having them in your hand every time you need them.

It's much simpler and faster to Rare Candy into a quick stage two and attack for low energy (kingdra, gengar, machamp, beedrill, charizard, etc) than it is to get out 6 different pokemon w/out claydol/uxie and STILL have draw power. You keep skirting that issue with theory.

The pokemon I mentioned sniping for 80 have everything to do with Arceus' attacks. When you max out at 80 damage and you are losing three energy to the lost zone, your attacks are terrible. I used the other pokemon as a comparison to show why Arceus is a terrible attacker.

To hit flygon for weakness, you have to be using the BASIC colorless Arceus, because the Lv. X counts as the same type as the stage under it. Flygon still has more options as far as attacking, because you are stuck using Metal Arceus attack to keep your arceus safe.

Arceus doesn't get around the 3 energy costs easily, because each arceus that gets KO'd in the active spot will have up to 3 energy on it, so between you sending three to the lost zone with heavenly spear and losing three for each KO, you can't keep up the energy unless you Rippling Wave each time to recover, which lets your opponent take more KO's.

There's no way that your initial 7 cards are going to set you up 6 arceus by T2 every game. Even in the games you could get setup, you can't recover fast enough without wasting an attack to get energy back out.

What do you do against Pitch Dark or Deafen? DGX completely ruins Arceus X. Machamp ruins the deck, Beedrill swarms it for 6 quick prizes. Expert belt only hurts Arceus against most decks. How do you plan to fit everything into the deck and keep it consistent? You have to stock up on several draw supporters to get anywhere.

All but one or two attacks out of ALL Arceus are decent, the rest are absolutely terrible, so i don't see how this even has a chance.

The damage is always hitting weakness... sounds more efficient than any other deck in the format, in fact I would say it's THE most efficient use of damage in the format. Not the highest, but damage used to best effect, since it should always be hitting weakness. And what does getting an extra prize have to do with whether or not 140hp is a lot?

Alright then you aren't always going to have claydol, wth, that has nothing to do with what I said.

How can you use your own theory to say mine is bad and then say I'm "skirting that issue with theory"? Having Beginning Door, Roseanne's Research, Call energy, Great Ball, and the freedom to run more than 4 of each Arceus sounds more inconsistent than getting stage 2s together? Also if you think about it you can run claydol, there's only a select instance where your bench is going to be too full, and you can play it later when you have space. You're only going to need a few arceus out anyway.

Alright, I understand, but that doesn't change the fact that this deck still has a world of difference from those decks, and that the sniping attack is simply a part of the deck, and I'd only really use it when I have too.

I don't think you know what Arceus Lv.X I'm talknig about....there's an arceus that lets you use attacks of other Arceus you have out. This would let the colorless Arceus use the metal Arceus's attack... Arceus litterally has more options as far as attacking.

Or we can Rippling Wave once, play the stadium, and keep dropping energy so we can give it to other Arceus later on. Heavenly Spear's like one of the worser attacks of Arceus, I don't know why you think it's the only thing that Arceus would use, maybe it's because you didn't know about the Lv.X I was talking about.

Well I've already mentioned the countless ways to get basic pokemon out, so it seems pretty easy to get them out. And I've also already mentioned how the stadium lets you use the energy on other Arceus, so recovering seems pretty easy to me.

Beedrill gets OHKO'd, as well as Dialga G, and I already said that maybe expert belt isn't right for the deck, since you should be hitting weakness all the time.

There are plenty of attacks that are good for Arceus, what are you talking about? Dark, Metal, Water, Psychic all seem fine to me, there's 4 attacks right there on any type you want. If you need some more damage at given moment, then use the fighting attack and then use the grass attack.

Arceus strikes me as the type of deck that, if it does actually have the substance to be highly viable, the 'Gym won't find out precisely how until halfway through the CC season. Until then, shiny and iffy.

I agree, I was just surprised that no one at all had started a thread about it. Like I understand not seeing the viability of it now, but I think that chance that it could be viable should be accepted as there are decks that seem worse in the format.

 

[Austino]

All-in-all, here are the cards that put down ANY competitiveness of this deck:

Machamp SF
Dusknoir DP
Palkia G Lv. X
Dialga G Lv. X
Mewtwo Lv. X

Decks that completely outclass it:

Beedrill (120 for one and sets itself up w/ faster recovery. Can KO all Arcues basic with only 3 bees)
Kingdra (constant THKO with 130 HP and one energy attack swarming by T2)
Machamp variants (Take Out, Hurricane Punch, and the Lv. X all overpower/outspeed the deck)
Mother Gengar (Fainting Spell hurts as well as poltergeists since you'll have a heavy draw supporter line and your full bench fuels Nidoqueen's attack for 100 damage per turn)
SP variants (Any with either dialga G, palkia G, or Garchomp C will either deafen lock until ready do Remove Lost your energy, cancel your Lv. X's abilities, clear your bench, or heal/snipe faster than Arceus)
Gyarados (constant 90> and always removing your stadium with BTS combined with lowest attack cost available and faster recovery)

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

You aren't always hitting weakness because arceus is only the same type is the pokemon underneath it, not whatever you want it to be. So you'll have to get the arceus that has the type you need active. Using the attacks of benched arceus doesn't make you that type.

Your argument is pointless because you don't have valid counters to the FACTS I've put on the table. You can't say you'll be OHKOing beedrill when you only have ONE attack on ONE arceus that takes THREE energy. You may get one or two ko's with it, but that's it. The Beedrill player will swarm and KO everything. You can't OHKO dialga G either unlesss you have three energy on that same arceus and the dialga player doesn't have a single special metal...

First door, great ball, and Rosy are fine and dandy, but you aren't going to start with the right combo of cards to set it up each time when you A) Can't consistently cycle your deck B) only play one supporter per turn C) only have supporters as draw power.

 

[Sabett]

All-in-all, here are the cards that put down ANY competitiveness of this deck:

Machamp SF
Dusknoir DP
Palkia G Lv. X
Dialga G Lv. X
Mewtwo Lv. X

Decks that completely outclass it:

Beedrill (120 for one and sets itself up w/ faster recovery. Can KO all Arcues basic with only 3 bees)
Kingdra (constant THKO with 130 HP and one energy attack swarming by T2)
Machamp variants (Take Out, Hurricane Punch, and the Lv. X all overpower/outspeed the deck)
Mother Gengar (Fainting Spell hurts as well as poltergeists since you'll have a heavy draw supporter line and your full bench fuels Nidoqueen's attack for 100 damage per turn)
SP variants (Any with either dialga G, palkia G, or Garchomp C will either deafen lock until ready do Remove Lost your energy, cancel your Lv. X's abilities, clear your bench, or heal/snipe faster than Arceus)
Gyarados (constant 90> and always removing your stadium with BTS combined with lowest attack cost available and faster recovery)

It's already been stated how the deck stops Machamp, Dialga G, and Mewtwo. DP and Palkia G are problems, like any deck has.

Also you already complained about me talking theory, and you're trying to say that any competitiveness is put down? It hasn't even hit the format and you're already dismissing it. And a lot of what you're stating in those deck summaries are what the deck always does, not that it has any particular special couter to the Arceus deck, except for nideoqueen, no one's attacking with three straight up energy attachments. I could summarize what the Arceus deck does against all the decks you mentioned and just slide in names to refer to it, and then all of a sudden Arceus outclasses them? Obviously a deck with do something bad to another deck.

 

[Kayle]

Dusknoir DP isn't a 'problem like any deck has'. When your deck can be primarily wrecked by a common 1-0-1 tech...

Do I need to finish the sentence or will you refute this regardless?

 

[Austino]

Arceus can't pull off what the decks mentioned do.

Their damage output, setup speed, and HP are ALL better than Arceus. The only thing Arceus has that helps it is a stadium and trainer card. A trainer card that is really just a great ball and/or premier ball.

The other thing is that it's not theory to know that a card kills the strategy. Needing 6 different arceus and your opponent has dusknoir DP isn't theory, it's fact. Having a deck full of basic pokemon vs a pokemon that Auto-KO's them isn't theory. Why do you think it would win? Even the most experience players will admit that their SP decks struggle against machamp. Arceus doesn't even have the ability SP do. Mewtwo X will OHKO any of your Arceus even with you doing 50 to it with water arceus. you three hit them while they take a couple prizes and build up another attacker.

 

[Bellawesome]

Like mentioned before, anyone who isnt seeing it now probably will later in cc's. It can overcome most of the issues it has....like mew2 doesnt always work vs it. champs winnable since you can g+ no weakness. Gengar is played around easier that usual. Some will still be tough. didn't i read somewhere that it was like a big part of Japan's format as well?

 

[mrdraz07]

How many ppl actually tried this? I would be interested in seeing some lists. This is a rough sketch, I have not tried the deck yet.

4 Pantheon
2 Lightning/Psy Lv. X
2 Colorless
1 Grass
2 Dark
3 Lightning
2 Psychic
1 Metal
1 Water
1 Fire
2 Unown G
=22

4 Call
3 Rainbow
2 Lightning
1 of each remaining type
=16

4 Beginning Door
4 Roseanne's
2 Bebe's
1 Luxury Ball
4 Level Max
2 Great Ball
2 Ultimate Zone
1 Palmer's
2 Cynthia's

Abuse Pantheon to the max. Rippling Wave IMO is the best and worst part about the deck. It's fairly hard to set up and it makes you have to run ridiculous amounts of energy. I would much rather streamline the types for what's popular in the meta. Start with Lightning, Dark, Water, and Metal, then add whatever's bothering you.

Any suggestions on the list?

 

[Austino]

How are you going to draw anything? Hope to top deck the supporters you want? There's only two cards that refresh your hand in there, lol.

Gonna have to run 3 cynthia, 3 volkner, 3 felicity, etc if it were going to work.

 

[jeffrey123]

You guys are looking at the bad (and most obvious) Arceus version.

Try out the Dark with some techs, the 6 types is way too inconsistent to even be worth mentioning. What i'm trying to say is, open your eyes, Pokegym.

There are many good ways to run Arceus consistently, but the 6 types isn't the right way

 

[baby mario]

*IF* there are decent Arceus decks out there, PokeGym won't even begin to see lists for them until Citys are well under way.

(See Dialga G for details).

 

[goliaththegreat]

You guys are looking at the bad (and most obvious) Arceus version.

Try out the Dark with some techs, the 6 types is way too inconsistent to even be worth mentioning. What i'm trying to say is, open your eyes, Pokegym.

There are many good ways to run Arceus consistently, but the 6 types isn't the right way

I agree that all 6 types is not the way to go,but the dark isn't that good imo.Don't you have to behind in prizes for him to be good?So you should never draw your last prize off the attack of the dark arceus.

 

[Ditto Dave]

This reminds me of the Rotom series from Rising Rivals... looks really fun, but in reality 1-I am not likely to EVER to open a pack and find a secret rare and 2- a deck that features them won't be competitive

 

[Progress]

You don't require any kind of set up with Arceus. Its entirely self-sufficient. Ultimate Zone does everything you need. Other than that, all you need to do is get all your Arceus into your hand. I can already tell that most people are failing to understand exactly the purpose of these cards.

 

[Treecko]

Mewtwo lv.x is not that big of a problem imo.
Use psychic arceus lvled up into omniscient lv. x with water arceus on bench
then just use the attack for 100, with pluspower that makes a dead cat.
But i agree dusknoir gives it major problems. Still think it's a nice set of cards and i hope they are gonna be playable somehow.

 

[Krusiv]

Now it's true you don't have to set up the colorless Arceus, but think about the stadium Arceus got as well. With that stadium not only would you not have to worry about attaching for the turn, but when your initial Arceus dies, you can simply switch all the energy to the new Arceus and he's ready to go.

I want to point out something about the stadium just in case you didn't know. You have to move the energy from your benched Arceus to your active Arceus. It's not as abusable as you make it sound but it is still good.

This reminds me of the Rotom series from Rising Rivals... looks really fun, but in reality 1-I am not likely to EVER to open a pack and find a secret rare and 2- a deck that features them won't be competitive

I don't think getting the Arceus cards will be too much of a problem. Yes, they are in their own little subset like the Rotom cards but many people have reported that they have gotten almost one of each Arceus out of one box. Others have said that sometimes the Arceus you get from a pack will replace your Reverse Holo.

 

[Sabett]

I want to point out something about the stadium just in case you didn't know. You have to move the energy from your benched Arceus to your active Arceus. It's not as abusable as you make it sound but it is still good.

Yeah My initial post was bad, I realized later on that you don't have to make the bench full of arceus and use ripple swell. But what I meant by this was that when your initial arceus is out you can put energy on your benched arceus so you can switch the energy later when your arceus gets KOd. I also don't really like the stadium with Flygon being so prominent.

 

[LegendaryLugia]

Arceus for me in a nutshell:

Cos

-Nice support with First Door etc.
-Can hit on any weakness
-When you hit with weakness, there's quite a high damage output
-Getting a possible 8 energies into play T2, and being able to move them around

Prons

-Can't run any tech lines, Uxies, Azelfs, etc.
-Has problems with consistency
-Expensive to build

Overall, solid deck, definitely competitive, but it'll take a while for someone to get a very good build than can do really well (Cetra's seems pretty solid).

 

[Sabett]

Arceus for me in a nutshell:

Cos

-Nice support with First Door etc.
-Can hit on any weakness
-When you hit with weakness, there's quite a high damage output
-Getting a possible 8 energies into play T2, and being able to move them around

Prons

-Can't run any tech lines, Uxies, Azelfs, etc.
-Has problems with consistency
-Expensive to build

Overall, solid deck, definitely competitive, but it'll take a while for someone to get a very good build than can do really well (Cetra's seems pretty solid).

No, thats the ripple swell build. You can easily run claydol and uxie in Arceus. Why are we going to ruin our bench when we don't even need them there or that much energy? Send up the arceus that hits their weakness Ambient level up, and then attack with the key attacks, with claydol or uxie on the bench and room to spare.