Archetypes, what do all of them share?

[PSYCO829]

I was doing a little research on decks that develop into major archetypes, trying to see if there was a common link between them that separates them from the decks that arent really effective. i was looking at all the major archetypes from the last few years, when i noticed something they all had in common: a way around the one energy per turn.

I was quite interested, and did further research on them. and they all had one of four factors in them.

1. Energy acceleration. A pokemon or energy card that allows them to attack additional energy every turn.
ex. DragTrode, LBS, Metanite, Blazitrode

2. Inexpensive attacks. The deck relies on attacks that are cheap, one or two energy, and still perform a useful funtion for the decks purpose.
ex. Mewtric, Flaridos, Super Stantler, Bandoom,

3. Loads of Special Energy Cards. The deck plays alot of Boost/Double Rainbow/Scramble energies that provide it with the ability to effecitvely go around the enrgy limit. They also have pokemon who are useful in a swarm attack and sudden comeback damage, such as ludicolo or nidoqueen d.
ex. Ludicargo, Gatrqueen, Delta

4. A main, hardy attacker who is difficult to kill and/or deals lots of damage. The player with the single pokemon will spend most of their energy on the main pokemon, with a backup attacker ready for if trouble arrises.
ex. Queendom, Mynx, PMS, T2 Dark Steelix

Here's what I think:
1. You have to be able to do 70 damage or better with one of your Pokemon.
2. You should have some form of Search, preferably reusable (think: Jirachi, Magcargo).
3. You should have some form of Disruption, preferably an auto-Condition.
4. You should have a Pokemon which can do something great for 1 Energy.
5. You should be able to get to opponent's Bench in some fashion.
6. If you run EX, you should be able to get past Safeguard in some manner.
7. The Trainer line should suit your deck. The Holon engine doesn't work for everybody.

That's about it.

A. Consistenty - Deck is well balanced in terms of energy, pokemon, search, and draw. Problems of bad starts are minimized. Consistent starts is a must for any good deck.

B. Flexible - Deck that have multiple ways/stategies of attack and play are better than single strategy focus. Consistency and Flexibility can be conflicting.

C. Achievable Energy Cost- Thus there are many ways to get to the energy cost, but the deck must be built so that key attacks can be achieved and maintained. Thus high energy cost attackers can be played only if you have energy acceleration in the deck. I think achievable is the best word for this, because other decks can be good without energy acceleration, if the energy costs are low.

D. Bench Access - Is an important factor. LBS was so good, because it can attack bench, think the old typhlosion. A deck that can't get at the bench can't win consistently, look at the Last Year's top decks, LBS, Mewtric, Eevee, Lunasol, Rai-Eggs... They can all could get at the bench.

E. Disruption - ER2, Trainer Locks, Reversals and things such as the old Admins.

I am unsure of whether or not these are nessesary qualities for a deck to be successful, but i have noticed that all archetypes have them. If anyone has seen a deck that i missed that has none of these qualities, or another quality to add, feel free to post it.
PS, dont just post your random deck here that follows none of these and say you proved me wrong, you will be ignored if you do.

 

[moza]

PSYCO, I didn't think you could post something that wasn't spam:tongue: jkjk


So, it would seem that to brake the format, you need to do a few things.

To stop #1, you obv need to shut down the powers.

#2, I think sceptile ex is the only card that adds attack-needed energy. CLAYDOL HP, WHERE ART THO?

#3 is what crystal beach can stop.

#4, lugia/lati*?

 

[WHISCASHEX]

5. A whole lot o' hype.

 

[Fabien]

They also use a lot of Powers (or/and bodies) --> Holon Legacy, Cursed Stone, Battle Frontier, Medicham ex, Sceptile ex, Cessation Crystal...

Also Supporters --> Armaldo SS, joking

 

[Tego]

It all can be boiled down to one ting:

No successful decks can be based around an attack that needs more than two turns to power up.

 

[rokman]

Tego wins.

 

[Ardoptres]

Super Stantler is not a real Archtype. Actually, it's not an Archtype at all.. :/

 

[PSYCO829]

it is an example of a successful deck that has done well in several tournoments and even won a few cities
while there is no definitive design for it, they all share stantler, who was the pokemon i used as an example

 

[bullados]

Most archetype decks have more than one of these. Heck, most use 3-4 of them. Just look at the decks that got tops at Cities:

Metanite (1,2,4)
Flygon ex delta (1,4)
Boom (1,2)
Delta (2,3)

Also, you should include Disruption as one of the catagories, cuz Boom, Delta, and Flariados simply don't work without their disruption elements...

 

[PSYCO829]

ah, but what disruption does metanite have?
the point of this were things that ALL archetypes, from past til present, shared

 

[Diaz]

ah, but what disruption does metanite have?
the point of this were things that ALL archetypes, from past til present, shared

most tech septile...
besides, most (all?) of the things you listed are not part of every archtype. Most things are in common, which is true of disruption.
we should use a list of archtypes, and compare that to the first-post list.

 

[PSYCO829]

good idea, lets do that

Super Stantler #2
Learn the tricks of Mewtrick #2, #4
LudiCargo #2, #3, #4
Sallygross #1, #3, #4
The Royalty of Flygon ex δ #1, #4
MetaNite #1-4 :lol:
BanDoom #2, #4
Raieggs #3
Flariados #2
Smp #1, #2, #4
Rock-Lock #2, #3, #4
Burning Liability #2, #3, #4
Powdacham #2, #4
Liability: Victreebel/Weezing #2, #3, #4
DragTrode #1, #4
Dark Slowking #2
Zre #1, #4
Turn Two Dark Steelix #1, #2 #4

 

[Pidgeotto Trainer]

Setup
T2
Decks that rely on DRE/Scramble

 

[Rambo1000]

One thing all modified archetypes have in common: Holon Mentor.

 

[Papi/Manny]

No offense, but wasn't this kinda obvious? I mean, you will not spend 4 turns powering up salmance d and expect to actually win, do you? I'm pretty sure any resonable person would either play some kinda of energy exceleraton, quick attacks, or speed energy attachments. But nice job on this anyways.

 

[Fabien]

One thing all modified archetypes have in common: Holon Mentor.

Flariados doesn't.

Psyco, your "numbers" are incomplete, for instance Raieggs is also #2... But that can depend for some decks. And LudiCargo is as expansive in energies as Raieggs, even more, whereas he's #2 and Raieggs isn't...

 

[PokeMontoya]

My Winning Charizard didnt make this topic :frown: :frown: :frown:

 

[Rambo1000]

good flariados lists DO play mentor.

 

[Fabien]

No they don't. How many tournaments did you win with a Mentor decklist ?

Is Anna a so bad player for playing no Mentor in Flariados too and doing well with when she decides to use it ?

 

[Rambo1000]

you're right. i guess john and steve silvestro are bad players. obv, steve has never won with flariados because he plays mentor.
oh wait, he won like, 6 cc's with flariados w/ mentor.

gg.

btw, i don't play flariados, so your question is obsolete.