Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Bdif

RichD said:
I am a little confused about the Keldeo Ex vs Empoleon discussion going on here. The strength of Empoleon vs any deck with a big EX is that Empoleon has a good chance of two shotting any EX while any non electric EX generally has to two shot Empoleon in return. So the prize trade is in the Empoleon player's favor. It is only when the Empoleon opponent can one shot Empoleon, such as with big basic Electric or a Garchomp with many Altaria's, or a Hydreigon's Dragonblast, that the noble penguin gets steamrollered.

Keldeo EX cannot one shot an Empoleon without 5 energies attached or with four and a plus power. So a question for those of you testing Keldeo EX/Blastoise. How quickly does a Keldeo EX/Blastoise deck get that many energies onto a Keldeo EX? Just as important, once that first Keldeo EX goes down, how quickly can you get another one ready?
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In my experience getting 5 energy on Keldeo isn't a given, but also isn't that hard.

Put down 3 and see if you get the 5. If you don't, try to fish for the second Keldeo and get 5 on that. If you do, run through Empoleons and be prepared to set up another.

It seems like it would be just as hard for Keldeo to strongarm through Empoleons as it was for Mewtwo, but an aggressively-built Blastoise/Keldeo definitely has an easier time just throwing down stupidly huge amounts of energy to take key OHKOs. If you were to play Mewtwo EX in Empoleon then you *might* have an easier matchup, but that would go against the premise of the deck... and you can't run DCE...
 
I was under the impression that some Empoleon decks run Energy Switch since most attackers in it use a single Energy... but that is based on old data, and last I knew you (Kayle) and LibertyFigter actually ran the deck pretty extensively... so that is not an option?
 
Otaku said:
I was under the impression that some Empoleon decks run Energy Switch since most attackers in it use a single Energy... but that is based on old data, and last I knew you (Kayle) and LibertyFigter actually ran the deck pretty extensively... so that is not an option?
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Oh yes, that is an option, but it's not a reliable one and Mewtwo would kinda need to hit the field early. Energy Switch was usually a lategame, "My deck is thin so I can diving draw half of it per turn" kind of play.

You're correct in saying that it's an option, I just don't feel like it's a really strong one. But it's an option.

Also LF discussed a new variant of Empoleon with me last night that he'd like to try so I guess we're going to test that haha.
 
To be perfectly honest, I think Keldeo has a legitimate matchup against the Darkrai/Hydreigon deck. Tonight, I just played 5 games against my friends Darkrai/Hydreigon deck (Using my winning Hydreigon/Darkrai build, by the way), and I would say I won 3 out of 5 games with it.

The way your suppose to approach is whittle down their hit points away with Kyurems Glaciate with an eviolite attached. That way, Hydreigon would have no way of knocking that Kyurem in one hit, and you'll get a second chance of Glaciating their entire field. Eventually bringing out Keldeo and sweep the field from there with as few as 3-4 energies. Watch out for Shaymin and Siglyph, however.


Moral of the Story: Don't bother running Terrakion or Kyogre ex in the Keldeo/Blastoise deck. Glaciate their field and sweep with Keldeo from there.
 
I'll restate that we really need to let this format play out. We got Skyla, and we have some decks that will do well maxing it out, and some that will run just two, and some that may not run it at all.

How that applies to what Chompy said is if the exact play he describes is "the" thing that allows Keldeo EX/Blastoise decks to stand up to Dark Trance decks, which normally are going to use Sableye to set up, I would just run a TecH PlusPower or an extra Tool Scrapper.

Let me emphasize that point; we are operating under the assumption that both decks are setting up but that the normal Dark Trance/Dark Cloak/Max Potion combo is going to allow it to come out ahead unless the Keldeo EX/Blastoise deck uses Kyurem to spread damage. Eviolite allows Kyurem to survive even a 140 point hit. Hydreigon with Dark Trance can attack for 140 points of damage, thus either including PlusPower or Tool Scrapper (or if already in the deck, an extra Skyla perhaps) neutralizes the counter.

This is pure Theorymon; Chompy has done play-testing and I have not. This is yet another reason why I say it is far too soon to call something BDIF, and some formats you'll never have a clear BDIF.
 
I have also done quite a bit of testing. However my testing has not been with kyrem. I do find it hard to believe that kyurem makes a difference. Usually, I would need at least 5 energy on keldeo to ohko hydreigon. To do this I need blastoise. Hydreigon can ohko blastoise with only 4 energy. After blastoise has been taken care of, its nearly impossible for keldeo to keep up. I just can't keep valuable damage on the board. If they whiff maz potion, they retreat into a fresh darkrai.

Your situation involves softening up the feild with a kyurem for 3 energy. The idea here would be to make your keldeo require less energy to ohko future hydreigons. To ohko the first hydreigon, however, you need 3 on kyurem, and 4 on keldeo. That's 7. Even more than five. With the extra cards needed to pull this off you won't be able to do it as fast as without kyurem, and the deck is already slower at it than hydreigon. With this extra time most kydreigons will stillohko blastoise, leaving you with a kyurem to defend yourself?

This also doesn't even consider bench management to limit kyrems damage, or eviolite to cripple it.

Hydreigon 60. Keldeo 40.
 
quick question. i am not that up to date with some decks because of the state i live in. what does 6 Corners consist of?
 
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You know, I could use a good answer to this question as well; I had written this deck off but it appears to have come back. The basic formula for it is to run six different Basic Pokémon (not total Pokémon count, which was a bit higher) and focus on Type-matching, while having relatively few poor match-ups. Simply put, this is the "Evolution" of the old Potpourri and Four Corners decks.

Those two older decks, since they are from past formats, are actually easier for me to explain; Potpourri was a "Haymaker" variant from way back that tried to run every Type (or at least every Type that could hit a Weakness) in the same deck. The best ones usually had to give up on one Type, and took a hit to their consistency but nothing severe.

Four Corners decks focused on hitting the top two-to-four Weaknesses in the format, plus whatever else conveniently fit. The versions I remember most used "themed" Pokémon like Dark/Rocket's Pokémon or Pokémon delta. The basic goal is again, hit a good spread on Weakness to promote favorable match-ups while reducing the odds of Type-matching hurting yourself.
 
Empoleon may still have a place, although in my opinion it will have to look fairly different than it used to. We will see!

As for six corners, it's pretty close to the "big basics" mentality in deck-building. Just lots of beefy, good, usually low-energy attackers. The old six corners relied on Virizion NVI for early game attacking and Double Draw consistency boost, but I'm not sure if that is still viable. A modern six corners variant will most likely take advantage of Fighting, Grass (if they can find something), and Water, as those three types hit almost anything that is projected to do well for weakness. As for specific Pokemon, that depends on your meta. "Six Corners" is really just "Big Basics Toolbox" with a cooler name : ).
 
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