BrightRush
New Member
This has gone to far and for so long to give them a break really. They do this each and every year, they need to make changes if they don't have the time or work power to get the information out early.
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King Piplup
Active Member
As it does mine....:/.
If we don't have it by tomorrow afternoon, I'll be quite disturbed, to be honest.
P_A
Active Member
In a perfect world, this suggestion ^ would be ideal. It's unfortunate that though it would be nice, it isn't always practiced. However even that sometimes can be impractical, since they may not have a firm estimate when approval is forthcoming from Japan. In many ways no answer may sometimes be better than an incorrect answer as can be testified from the above comments.
I'm positive that it isn't just a very American idea. It's a German, Canadian, Dutch, Russian, Japanese, ..... idea. It's a very human idea.
The problem is that sometimes that idea has no empathy. Treat people like you would want to be treated and you'll enjoy many better experiences.Getting back to the matter at hand - I wonder how many of you have withheld information from another person - perhaps even vital information? Well, I'm pretty sure all of us have at one point or another - to a friend, acquaintance, child, loved one etc. Sometimes it's due to something we want, or for personal motives, but for the most part we really don't have nefarious motives for doing so, nor do we really have it in for the other person by withholding vital information. While it is true that sometimes bad things do happen when vital information is withheld, this situation won't make someone dead, so we needn't get too worked up about it. Why is it so easy for some people to imply a poor attitude, work ethic, or bad motives on TPCi's part? Why don't we do like another poster said, and give them a break? I'm sure by this point they know that many people are concerned about the information, so they'll do their best to get the info out asap.
I agree with ogremarauder. This is an official corporation that works on an official TCG where they have people who make money off of this. We should not "give them a break" because this is real life not just a game (technicaly it is but still). If you say you are going to make a deadline then make it to that deadline. If you can't then you should have planned better and extended it to about 2 weeks in advance just incase anything happens. Also we should not be here 4 days (almost 3) away from Battle Roads and not know what is in it. We should have more than the date, time, and location, and most of the prizes.
i'm not trying to just hate on the people who run the organized play because I like how they are trying to make it fair for everybody but we should not be left out in the dark about this stuff.
i'm not trying to just hate on the people who run the organized play because I like how they are trying to make it fair for everybody but we should not be left out in the dark about this stuff.
P_A
Active Member
But the point is .... TPCi never made any promises as to when the faq document would be online. No deadline. It's just the expectations of people who think that they SHOULD give out that info at a certain time. Are their expectations unrealistic? Not necessarily. I won't condemn a person for having expectations, and I'm sure neither would TPCi. We should however try to be patient and empathetic if TPCi can't fulfill those personal expectations.
ogremarauder
New Member
I may have empathy for individual X that works within the company, struggling with management to get things done on a reasonable timeframe. I WILL NOT however ; have empathy for a COMPANY that year after year fails to provide it's staff and customers with adequate information or resources. To suggest that anyone should, is absurd.
---------- Post added 08/28/2012 at 07:44 PM ----------
As for not making any promises about timeframes- Thats one of the biggest problems here! Sure; we can't say "y'all told us it would be ____" But the fact is that we SHOULD be able to have information in a timely manner. Not providing it to us in such a way speaks not to how the individual employees (who by and large are wonderful ambassadors for the game) view us. Yet it DOES speak volumes of how the COMPANY as an entity views we the customers.
---------- Post added 08/28/2012 at 07:44 PM ----------
As for not making any promises about timeframes- Thats one of the biggest problems here! Sure; we can't say "y'all told us it would be ____" But the fact is that we SHOULD be able to have information in a timely manner. Not providing it to us in such a way speaks not to how the individual employees (who by and large are wonderful ambassadors for the game) view us. Yet it DOES speak volumes of how the COMPANY as an entity views we the customers.
psychup2034
New Member
I'm positive that it isn't just a very American idea. It's a German, Canadian, Dutch, Russian, Japanese, ..... idea. It's a very human idea.
Maybe it's an American and Western European idea, but a human idea? Absolutely not.
It's not a very human idea, but rather a cultural thing. In many Asian and Eastern European cultures, it's all about accountability and results. When I take a test, it's not about the 99 questions I got right; there's nothing spectacular about doing something right. It's about the 1 question I got wrong; if I screwed up, I screwed up. I don't need other people to make excuses for why I screwed up. I certainly don't need people telling me "You did so well, it's OK that you missed one question."
When I screw up, I want to be told exactly how I screwed up, and what I should do to change it. That's how I'm going to get better. (This applies for pretty much everything in life. When I get a test back and I missed a question, I want to know the exact stupid mistake I made. When I make a misplay in Pokemon, I want to know how I could've played better. I'd rather have someone tell me "You're an idiot, you should've saved your Catcher" than "You played well, but maybe you could've did something differently there.")
I'm a grown adult. I don't need to be babied when I mess up.
If I'm running a company, and I'm screwing up badly at communicating with my customers, I sure hope that some of my customers will send me angry e-mails demanding attention. I don't need my customers to be perfunctory toward me. I want them to be direct. Tell me where I'm screwing up. Tell me bluntly how I could improve.
Then I would listen to my customers, instead of continuing to ignoring them.
I work for a consulting firm. If my client has a conference in 4 days, and I haven't given my client a critical piece of information or any communication about when they can expect to see that piece of information, I would be fired. Plain and simple.
It's about accountability for being unpunctual with information. It's disturbing that some people in the Pokemon community would try to make excuses to defend OP's lack of communication about CPs at Battle Roads.
OP does some things right, and players acknowledge them. OP does some things wrong, and players acknowledge them.
I think everyone knows that they will try to get the info out as soon as possible. What some of us are concerned about is the lack of intermittent communication before the information comes out. Keeping your customers in the dark about the timetable for releasing vital information is a surefire way to get your customers to think that you are an irresponsible company.
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rokman
<a href="http://pokegym.net/gallery/browseimages.p
1. We should AT LEAST have a "announcement made on X date!" (this sets up a solidified deadline... Instead of a "fake office deadline" - which is obviously the type of deadlines at the TPCI headquarters) because the way it works now is, TPCI doesn't have to answer to anybody if they don't make a decision by a certain deadline. If they publicly make a deadline, that means they have people to answer to. i.e. It's a real deadline, with consequences. The fact it's a "real deadline" means TPCI will worry enough about it, and make decisions.
2.You release the information, on the date you told your customers, and everyone is happy. OR.... If the information is not released by the date you announced, we need a "We have not yet reached a decision, we will release the information later" This pretty much means you have failed your customers and your job. You pretty much fail at life as well.
3. Release the information, at a delayed date, apologizing for the inconvenience to your fans. Then quit your job.
I can't believe this has to be explained. :nonono:
2.You release the information, on the date you told your customers, and everyone is happy. OR.... If the information is not released by the date you announced, we need a "We have not yet reached a decision, we will release the information later" This pretty much means you have failed your customers and your job. You pretty much fail at life as well.
3. Release the information, at a delayed date, apologizing for the inconvenience to your fans. Then quit your job.
I can't believe this has to be explained. :nonono:
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TheRolesWePlay
New Member
No, it's a human thing of that I can assure you. The internet can attest to that. Sure it may come across differently in different cultures, and have different connotations, but it is very much the same.
I'm relatively sure that you wouldn't want someone criticizing you when you're in the middle of the situation, and much less so when you have a perfectly valid reason for doing so, and if not then fair enough, but that is how some people work. Everyone's freaking out about this relatively small problem, when there very well may be a perfectly legitimate reason that there's the hiatus.
There are two simple problems with your line of reasoning here. One the customer doesn't always know the actual problem, and sometimes they even mistake a safeguard for a problem.
Two, you can't listen to every complaint, much less address and fix every concern. It isn't monetarily or physically viable. Sure if it's a large enough concern it can be addressed, but sometimes it simply isn't worth it, especially since people for some inane reason shoulder companies with an unreal amount of professionalism, and have little to no interest into the internal functioning of the company.
Except for the fact that there are plenty of things that we are unaware of, and some of us believe that there's more to the situation than we are privy to that could explain it. Just sayin.
:lol: Not nearly as much as you may think on the former.
Unless of course they release said timetable and have numerous delays that make said timetable unreliable, and it isn't like Nintendo in general is known for that kind of behavior...oh...they are known for that aren't they.
Just to make it 100% clear, I'm not saying to pardon them for this.
However what I am saying is that there are most certainly aspects that we are unaware of, and that the information is likely postponed for legitimate reasons. I'm just asking that you give some thought to what those reasons may be instead of flying off the handle, as the latter won't make it come any faster and only leave a bitter mentality in your head.
This seems to be a transition period for TPCi on this (and several other) fronts, and given some time these problems will likely disappear, so just try to be open minded in the mean time.
HotGustofWind
New Member
For a moment, consider that the player base is not the real "customer" of Organized Play. Maybe the real customers are the tourney organizers, Professors, and league leaders. I am not suggesting the player base does not consume the product of POP, but I am saying that it is done via the local distributor so to speak, not the corporation. Why does that matter? Only to suggest that POP is not set up at all to handle communication with each and every player, or any player, really. It is set up to communicate with those few folks I listed above. I am not suggesting the lack of information about the season that starts in a few days is acceptable. I think it is crazy.
Now to continue my thought, in an ideal world, the player base could ask its distributor (PTO, etc.) what the deal was, and the distributor should chase down that information for its direct customer if they did not know the answer already. I apologize in advance if I am wrong, but I do not recall seeing any post from a PTO type where they have said they have strenuously pursued an answer to the issue of Battle Roads CP’s on behalf of their players, but they have been ignored by POP.
I have only been involved in this community for one season, but in that time I have observed that there are a few folks in the PTO ranks that seem to have fairly high stature. I would like to call on them to pound the table of POP on behalf of the players.
Now to continue my thought, in an ideal world, the player base could ask its distributor (PTO, etc.) what the deal was, and the distributor should chase down that information for its direct customer if they did not know the answer already. I apologize in advance if I am wrong, but I do not recall seeing any post from a PTO type where they have said they have strenuously pursued an answer to the issue of Battle Roads CP’s on behalf of their players, but they have been ignored by POP.
I have only been involved in this community for one season, but in that time I have observed that there are a few folks in the PTO ranks that seem to have fairly high stature. I would like to call on them to pound the table of POP on behalf of the players.
psychup2034
New Member
It is a very American/Western idea that someone can do a "good job" at 95% of their job and expect not to be blasted for the 5% of their job that's a "bad job."
At work, I would definitely want my clients to criticize me when I'm in the middle of a situation and I don't communicate with them what I'm doing. It doesn't matter if I have a perfectly valid reason if I'm not communicating this reason with my client.
When I don't communicate what I'm doing with my client, I'm failing at my job. When I'm failing at my job, I accept and acknowledge the criticism because I take responsibility for what I'm doing.
Bingo! This is exactly the point a lot of us are trying to make.
This concern (whether there are championship points for Battle Roads) is a huge issue. OP needs to address it.
ogremarauder
New Member
The "aspects we aren't aware of" is one of the problems.Giving thought to what those reasons may be is kind of difficult to impossible without definitive, direct from the Poke's mouth, communication. Saying "thats how they've always been, is an enabling tool. We can and will alwaysREASONABLY expect SOME level of improvement in the flow of information. Whatever the problem is this time around; they need to assure that it doesn't happen again. I (and I'm sure many others) can forgive nigh constant mistakes; if they are made in the name of overall improvement. But I will not excuse or "give a break to" an entity which keeps making the same type of mistakes over and over. And don't overlook that this problem is in fact a mistake.No matter why. The intent is immaterial. Failing to inform your constituency of changes in a timely manner is wrong. Even if done for the right reasons, or because it was "unavoidable".
You are correct though about the futility of harboring stress about it. But that doesn't mean we(the community) should just roll over and take it. This time of transition is when we need to chatter the loudest, IMHO .
Kayle
Active Member
I kind of figure if they were allowed to tell us what was holding them up, they would already have permission to make the statement. It's possible they're just as confused and frustrated about the whole thing as we are. Maybe it's over their head. Maybe they just don't know. Maybe they're sitting on the BRs CP information waiting for some unrelated confirmation so that they can just release the stupid thing.
I prefer to assume the best when I have no other evidence. That's just me though.
I have no problem with speaking up about problems, and I like your approach to the discussion, I just don't like people blindly angry with P!P and making heated arguments without acknowledging that they don't really have the full story and, therefore, don't have any grounds on which to make judgments.
TheRolesWePlay
New Member
Are we really arguing this? Just because other cultures are more known for that behavior doesn't mean that it is unique to them, or that it's the only behavior. It is a human thing, because humans from all cultures do it, prominent or not.
Again good for you, that is your approach to the situation and it is a perfectly reasonable and viable approach, but it isn't the only one. Some people, and companies simply do their own thing regardless of the opinion and knowledge of others, for better or for worse, and some of them have more than reasonable explanations. For instance Nintendo focuses on quality products, but doesn't go out of their way to announce stuff.
And you completely ignored the rest of what I said I see.
Yes, it is an issue worth acknowledging, but just because it is doesn't mean it is in their best interest to address it, and they may want to hold off for a specific reason, most notably until the necessary papers are approved.
---------- Post added 08/28/2012 at 09:11 PM ----------
I'm gonna have to majorly disagree here. Understanding where their policies came from is integral to the whole thing. It must be understood that why they came to into that is part of what defines them.
Pokemon is and always has been rather tight-lipped when it comes to things, it's just a part of how they've come to be. I am rather unaware of why they may be that way, but I can come up with a few good reasons. A lot of what has made Pokemon the juggernaut that it is, is the many secrets they've kept, such as Mew and other event Pokemon. To put it simply Pokemon tries to stay quiet for the eventual 'wow' factor. (At least that's my understanding)
Simply this boils down to a simple disagreement between your approach and mine. You think that intent doesn't really hold precedent, but I do, and I also give more leeway during periods of transition, since most of the problems present are often results of old and new parts conflicting with each other.
While I do believe that we should point out certain things, making a big deal about them is just pointless to me since all it does is stir up resentment that wouldn't otherwise matter, and would dissipate over time.
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This is what is bothering me the most. Tiebreakers are gonna be a mess.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arbitrary
Merriam Webster Dictionary said:
Can you please explain to me how tie breakers meet one of the above definitions of arbitrary?
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