Catcher? Will it ruin the format?

[espeon200]

^1. Promoting fast decks like ZPS, 2. being auto-pilot for the opponent, 3. making Stage 2's less playable and 4. restricting deckbuilding creativity are the reasons it ruins the game.

1. Fast decks will always be popular in the game. It's been so since Base Set (Haymaker).

2. As noted, my opponent was playing on auto-pilot the second game, and I was thinking before I played. I won the second game.

3. I was playing TyRam. Yes, catcher makes that more difficult, but it doesn't make it impossible. Good players adapt to changes that are accessible to every player. Scrubs get on the Gym and complain about them. I'm not trying to call you a scrub. I'm just saying that complaining about the inevitable instead of preparing for it is a recipe for disaster.

4. There will always be creativity in deckbuilding no matter what cards are in the format. Did LuxChomp make it so that no one played anything besides SP last format? It did dominate the format, but there were still other people who ran different decks. Looking at the two formats side by side we're already seeing a lot more different kinds of decks being played. The thing is, Catcher or no people will always be hyping one deck as BDIF. It's just the way it is because not all cards are created equal. If they were people wouldn't be complaining about Emerging Powers... also Pokemon hit points would look like Yu-Gi-Oh! life points.

Also, there are other factors that could have played into the difference. For example, did he get Zekrom out on the same turn both games? Did he consistently get more Zekroms out? Who went first in each game?

You're right. I had a god start the first game. If I hadn't topdecked a Collector in the first couple of turns I would have lost the second game. He started Zekrom both games. The second game his starting hand was just not as good, but he was able to use Dual Balls to get everything he needed. He went first in the first game, I went first in the second, so point to that argument.

@Otaku Been playing since Base Set, but stopped when Wizards lost the rights and started again during HGSS. I remember being really happy when Gust of Wind rotated out originally. But it rotated at the same time as Switch. That made it possible to run a really sweet Piloswine/Murkrow lock deck that was almost impossible to get out of the lock once it was set. (No one in my area played Warp Point or Double Gust, strangely.) People complain about the dominant form of forced switch in every format. Seriously, has there ever been a format where there wasn't some sort of forced switch that wasn't complained about?

 

[Yoshi-]

I played a game last night where my opponent playing ZPS got a heads on every single reversal he played thoroughly decimating my setup (and killing my SEL Tech for double prizes). I was starting to really get frustrated, and then I realized that when Catcher is officially released at the end of the month that all games will be like that from a ZPS player. So I asked for a rematch and went into the game with the mindset that I needed to be more thoughtful when playing down basics. This time I beat him 6 prizes to two. He still flipped heads on every reversal he played, but my deck (with no changes) was being played with a different mindset that knew I needed to bait knockouts from him. Catcher makes you think instead of just letting your deck run on autopilot. How does that ruin the game?

That just means you played bad before, you should play with the mindset that every single reversal is a heads anyway, especially with a lightning weak legend

I played a few games as well, catcher price, catcher, price, catcher, price...

I even catchered up an unown dark just for the sake of drawing faster prices...
I dont think catcher will ruin the game but it will make a big part of cards unplayable, promote stupid beatdown decks and al games will come down to price races. Totally braindead.

And if catcher makes you think the problem is that havent been thinking before...

What benefits do stage 2s have in a format with stage1s of aall elements that can attack for 1 nrg and hit everything for weakness? None.. Stage 2 benchsitters (which have been my favorite part of pokemon)? Dead and gone...

You cant carefully plan ahead anymore since everything is exposed and white open now. Maybe we needed some good sniping pokemon to make the bench vulnerable but catcher makes the idea of a bench null and void.

Just look at something like this eel thing from the next set.

Eelektrik – Lightning – HP90
Stage 1 – Evolves from Tynamo

Ability: Electric Dynamo
Choose 1 Lightning Energy card from your discard pile and attach it to one of your Benched Pokemon. You can use this Ability 1 time during your turn.

[L][L][C] Lightning Ball: 50 damage.

Weakness: Fighting (x2)
Resistance: none
Retreat: 2


such a cool card but with catcher? You cant rely on having him ever, nothing is sure to survive anything ever...

MY prediction is that pokemon will just evolve in a stupid beatdown game with stage 2s seeing very little play and games hardlyl asting longer then 15 minutes and teching all but dead. Some people may like this, maybe this is even how the game was supposed to be play since its probably really similar to the haymaker days. But I really dislike it and I guess delta was a fluke :/

 

[evil psyduck]

Threads like these remind me of two stories i heard as a child. "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" and "Chicken Little"

 

[ogremarauder]

Expansions for mtg are released at the same time worldwide.

Almost. I think its like within a week or something like that. It's not always the exact same day, but really close.

---------- Post added 08/19/2011 at 01:58 PM ----------

4. There will always be creativity in deckbuilding no matter what cards are in the format. Did LuxChomp make it so that no one played anything besides SP last format? It did dominate the format, but there were still other people who ran different decks. Looking at the two formats side by side we're already seeing a lot more different kinds of decks being played. The thing is, Catcher or no people will always be hyping one deck as BDIF. It's just the way it is because not all cards are created equal. If they were people wouldn't be complaining about Emerging Powers... also Pokemon hit points would look like Yu-Gi-Oh! life points.

The "other decks" ur talking about in the above quote either didn't win or won in areas where luxchomp was not easily available due to card availability/ inflated price. I will concede that many new decktypes are currently seen being played, but after a coulpe of BRs that will change. The thread is regarding whether catcher will ruin the format or not. Ibelieve that like any game with comparable popularity, a single card will not ruin it. It's not like catcher is some unobtainable ultra-super-hyper-rare like other games(cough* ygo, M:tg cough*). If it were, then pokemon would collapse in short order. It will however define the format for the duration of its modified status. Much like Garchomp C lv X did when it was legal.
Sp decks were already given a pre-fab engine, and then this guy comes along and negated the only drawback sp cards had(lower overall hp). Garchomp defined the last format just like catcher will do to this one.

 

[untitled]

1. Fast decks will always be popular in the game. It's been so since Base Set (Haymaker).

2. As noted, my opponent was playing on auto-pilot the second game, and I was thinking before I played. I won the second game.

3. I was playing TyRam. Yes, catcher makes that more difficult, but it doesn't make it impossible. Good players adapt to changes that are accessible to every player. Scrubs get on the Gym and complain about them. I'm not trying to call you a scrub. I'm just saying that complaining about the inevitable instead of preparing for it is a recipe for disaster.

4. There will always be creativity in deckbuilding no matter what cards are in the format. Did LuxChomp make it so that no one played anything besides SP last format? It did dominate the format, but there were still other people who ran different decks. Looking at the two formats side by side we're already seeing a lot more different kinds of decks being played. The thing is, Catcher or no people will always be hyping one deck as BDIF. It's just the way it is because not all cards are created equal. If they were people wouldn't be complaining about Emerging Powers... also Pokemon hit points would look like Yu-Gi-Oh! life points.

1. True, but they haven't always been completely dominant. For example, compare the SP formats to the Delta formats.

2. I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to say.

3. Fine, I should have said Stage 2 attackers. When was the last time you saw a main attacker stage 2 being successful? I don't think it's been since Gengar in the last format. I'm most certainly preparing for Catcher. I've been playtesting a lot and the format dissapoints me. I don't think the fact I dislike Catcher means that I'm not preparing for it. I think it's unfair to say that those who dislike catcher are less prepared than the rest. The only way to have non-basic techs is to run Vileplume. And then you can't tech trainers. Catcher restricts creative deckbuilding. As far as bad decisions made for the game, why not express disappointment with them? We all know the high-ups at Pokemon read on here, so if enough people are disappointed with them they might not make similar mistakes in the future.

4. Sure, we have a lot of decks available. And that's a good thing. But you're crazy if you think a 1-1 tech like Slowking or Dodrio for better matchups will work. And 1-0-1? Forget about it. This is the first time I can remember since I started playing that mini-pyramid lines have seen play. Good deck choices and good deckbuilding options are two completely different things. I'm not hyping anything as BDIF; I don't think anybody has. I don't see how that relates to Catcher at all.

 

[Otaku]

Note: Not quoting the entire post due to space concerns.

MY prediction is that pokemon will just evolve in a stupid beatdown game with stage 2s seeing very little play and games hardlyl asting longer then 15 minutes and teching all but dead. Some people may like this, maybe this is even how the game was supposed to be play since its probably really similar to the haymaker days. But I really dislike it and I guess delta was a fluke :/

You really liked the days of Pokemon delta, didn't you? I noticed you cite them on other days. The Holon Engine was more powerful than intended, I think, based on how it wasn't really repeated until Pokemon SP... where it was definitely too powerful.

Yoshi- you are most definitely full of doom and gloom and not much substance in your arguments. This undermines your points greatly, and that is unfortunate. Most of your posts are the reverse of idealistic Theorymon. Instead of that person who insists a card is great because they always allow for ideal circumstances. With most of your predictions, you assume the absolute worst including multi-Prize KOs most turns. I mean, even with Pokemon Cather you should be able to field a Bench full of Stage 1 Pokemon like Eelektrik and force your opponent to choose: take out my Active that is pounding on your guys or try to cripple my set-up slowly turn after turn.

For example, run Raichu Prime with Eelektrik. The deck just needs to field Eeletrik as quickly as possible and if your opponent tries to pick off Eelektrik the whole game, they are probably going to lose because that means ignoring Raichu Prime. Certainly not BDIF, but it seems at least a solid concept to try and build a deck on and while Pokemon Catcher does mean that a fast deck is going to take down one Eelektrik per turn, it also means Raichu can basically OHKO any support your opponent has unless it is truly massive (which by your logic won't happen since no one will be running Stage 2 Pokemon).

untitled: You're assuming those "TecHs" were intended to work. Given the structure of the game (including the "blind" six Prizes) I am guessing they weren't.

 

[espeon200]

That just means you played bad before, you should play with the mindset that every single reversal is a heads anyway, especially with a lightning weak legend

Agreed. Stupidest play I've made in a long time. If I hadn't played it I possibly could have won the first game. Or I might still have lost. The point is a lot of players don't think about what they're playing, they just play things down. Catcher firmly stops that with very real consequences.

I played a few games as well, catcher price, catcher, price, catcher, price...

I even catchered up an unown dark just for the sake of drawing faster prices...
I dont think catcher will ruin the game but it will make a big part of cards unplayable, promote stupid beatdown decks and al games will come down to price races. Totally braindead.

In my experience, most games are races to draw six prizes. It's kind of the main way to win the game. :thumb:

And if catcher makes you think the problem is that havent been thinking before...

What benefits do stage 2s have in a format with stage1s of aall elements that can attack for 1 nrg and hit everything for weakness? None.. Stage 2 benchsitters (which have been my favorite part of pokemon)? Dead and gone...

Well, there's the fact that some of those Stage 2 bench sitters have excellent abilities that make the risk of playing them worthwhile. Typhlosion, Emboar, and Feraligatr are all great forms of energy acceleration. The only other acceleration in the game right now is Pachi and Jirachi. Both basics that require Shaymin to truly work. So you can set up a stage 2 sacrificing one basic in the process if you want energy acceleration, or you can play down two easily KO-able basics for similar if slightly more limited energy acceleration. Also the Stage 2 support Pokemon generally have enough HP to take a hit or two from the Stage 1 attackers.

You cant carefully plan ahead anymore since everything is exposed and white open now. Maybe we needed some good sniping pokemon to make the bench vulnerable but catcher makes the idea of a bench null and void.

Funny thing is, we're arguing the opposite sides with the same argument. Catcher requires you to plan ahead precisely because everything is exposed.

Just look at something like this eel thing from the next set.

Eelektrik – Lightning – HP90
Stage 1 – Evolves from Tynamo

Ability: Electric Dynamo
Choose 1 Lightning Energy card from your discard pile and attach it to one of your Benched Pokemon. You can use this Ability 1 time during your turn.

[L][L][C] Lightning Ball: 50 damage.

Weakness: Fighting (x2)
Resistance: none
Retreat: 2


such a cool card but with catcher? You cant rely on having him ever, nothing is sure to survive anything ever...

You can rely on having him for one turn. That one turn lets you charge up an extra Zekrom, or Lanturn Prime. There has never been any guarantee that your benched Pokemon would be safe.

MY prediction is that pokemon will just evolve in a stupid beatdown game with stage 2s seeing very little play and games hardlyl asting longer then 15 minutes and teching all but dead. Some people may like this, maybe this is even how the game was supposed to be play since its probably really similar to the haymaker days. But I really dislike it and I guess delta was a fluke :/

Even during the Haymaker days there were still setup decks that did well. They weren't favored by the mid-level players, but decks like Raindance have always been in the format disrupting beatdown decks. So we will see. Maybe you're right. Maybe the future of the game is a bleak sit down, shake hands with opponent, and flip coin to decide who wins. Or maybe something will come out in the next couple of sets that completely changes the way the game is played and gives Stage 2 decks such a boost that the new EX Pokemon just look laughable. Only time will tell. As for me, I enjoy playing the game win or lose, Catcher or no.

 

[ogremarauder]

I'm most dissapointed with how they reprinted a trainer and changed its name just to sell another couple boosters. Why in the name of Arceus couldn't they have just reprinted gust of wind? There is absolutely no reason to change the name. New artwork with a tepig or something being blown away by tornadorus would have been awsome, and other people could use the old card without having to get new ones. Even this very set has recycle in it-a reprint! Cards have been reprinted, even the functioning slightly tweaked(nrg retrieval,potion, ect..). Why did they "reprint" a fairly powerful trainer in a set that many in the know consider to be underpowered, only to change its name? The almighty Dollar rears its ugly Washingtonian head again.

 

[Otaku]

The almighty Dollar rears its ugly Washingtonian head again.

Don't overreach. If it was purely about money, Emerging Powers would have been street legal about a month before Pokemon Worlds. Odds are the fact that they wanted Worlds to lack Pokemon Catcher is why it was put off. Emerging Powers just happened to be the next set.

Your other points might have some validity, but that last line almost makes me forget them. :lol:

 

[ogremarauder]

^I didn't mean to make it seem like $$ was the only factor, just a very potent and scale tipping one. I also wasn't mostly concerned with what set it was released in, just that they changed its name for no logical reason. If you could raise a valid point to argue why it made ANY sense, I would be inclined to reform my stance. I have discovered no such reason imo, so $$ seems like next logical step. I am totally open to reasonable persuasion

 

[espeon200]

2. I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to say. You were saying that Catcher fosters players who play on auto-pilot. I was saying that by thinking about the game I beat a player who was playing on auto-pilot. If Catcher makes players play on auto-pilot then it stands to reason that players who are thinking strategically about the game will do better.

3. Fine, I should have said Stage 2 attackers. When was the last time you saw a main attacker stage 2 being successful? I don't think it's been since Gengar in the last format. I'm most certainly preparing for Catcher. I've been playtesting a lot and the format dissapoints me. I don't think the fact I dislike Catcher means that I'm not preparing for it. I think it's unfair to say that those who dislike catcher are less prepared than the rest. The only way to have non-basic techs is to run Vileplume. And then you can't tech trainers. Catcher restricts creative deckbuilding. As far as bad decisions made for the game, why not express disappointment with them? We all know the high-ups at Pokemon read on here, so if enough people are disappointed with them they might not make similar mistakes in the future. Here's the deal, when there was one post on this forum then I would agree that players can vent their frustration about Catcher and have some chance of being heard. We're up to at least the fourth thread if not more of players complaining about Catcher. There comes a point when complaining becomes noise. Just like Evil Psyduck said earlier, it turns into The Boy Who Cried Wolf. When we complain about everything it becomes easier to ignore especially when the complaints were unfounded. Remember the Lost World hype? It seems like for every legitimate fear we express (Sabledonk) there's another one that is hyped which turns out to be nothing. I don't want P!P to quit ignoring us because we nitpick every single little thing that changes in the game.

4. Sure, we have a lot of decks available. And that's a good thing. But you're crazy if you think a 1-1 tech like Slowking or Dodrio for better matchups will work. And 1-0-1? Forget about it. This is the first time I can remember since I started playing that mini-pyramid lines have seen play. Good deck choices and good deckbuilding options are two completely different things. I'm not hyping anything as BDIF; I don't think anybody has. I don't see how that relates to Catcher at all. Sorry. Getting my threads crossed. I was thinking about how I've heard ZPS, Donphan, and Zoroark/Cinncino all being hyped as a possible BDIF thanks to catcher. You're right, that was not a good argument to your point. I just want to wait and see if Catcher truly does force creative deckbuilders to stifle their creativity. I'm not a particularly creative deckbuilder, but there are other players who are that will use the cards in the format now and in the future to pull off amazing combos even with Catcher around. I like to take an optimistic viewpoint and be proven wrong much more than taking a pessimistic viewpoint and being proven right.

I can't respond to 1 because as noted earlier I missed out on that golden period of the game when Delta was there to bring laughter, joy, rainbows, sunshine, and million-dollar checks to every player. That said, I'm sure someone complained about Delta... probably that it was too slow. The longer I spend on these forums the more sure I am that Pokemon players will never ever be satisfied with some of the decisions that are made in the game.

 

[untitled]

@Otaku- I don't think it makes sense to assume bench sitters weren't meant to be a part of the game either. I mean, I could argue that if bench sitters weren't meant to be around, they wouldn't make "abilities" that work on the bench. Notably, a large amount of the EP-on cards we know about only have abilities that work while active but that's beside the point (I think.)

As far as I know, TPCI hasn't made any comments about how they intended for the game to be played. Imo they wanted to change it up a lot. Recently, it's been a lot of speed decks but now it's looking like the first turn rules backfired and the better players are going to setup + Twins decks. Off topic- Twins is one of the best cards they've ever printed- I wouldn't even complain about anything if they reprinted that like they reprint Switch and Potion lol. Now all we need is Scramble Energy and Rare Candy back XP

EDIT- Ninja'd @espeon200
2. Agreed on this - the best players have always risen to the top. Looks like we sort of had a double misunderstanding... I'm just saying that Catcher makes it easier for the bad players to do better; not necessarily rise to the top.

3. I agree on this too - I wasn't a part of the other threads though. I'm not sure why everybody can't stick to one thread, but this looks like the only active one now which is good.

4. Well I like to take optimistic viewpoints too, but the reality is that any bench sitter with a basic form of 40 HP, any Stage 1 with 80 or less HP, any stage 2 period, or any cards with 2 or more retreat can't be run as 1-of, 1-1 or 1-0-1 techs. To be fair, this isn't due to Catcher but more due to the Yanmega Prime + Catcher brokenness. When Yanmega is rotated out things will hopefully get better. I like the option to include techs, but I suppose others don't. I just don't see why TPCI doesn't want to give players that option. A good way to give players the option and make everybody happy would be to have Catcher say "Choose 1 of your opponent's benched Pokemon that is a fully evolved Pokemon and does not have any Abilities. Switch that Pokemon with your opponent's Active Pokemon." Or something similar. That way players don't get sloppy but there's still room for Stage 2's and creativity. That would give the card a lot more balance. Basically my entire argument has been that a direct reprint wasn't the best option and I hope that in the future TPCI doesn't do as many of those.

 

[Rainbowgym]

Perhaps Catcher will not ruin the game in General. but it will ruin it for ME.

I never liked cards as Gust of wind, Luxray X, Pow hand extension and Reversal.

 

[Otaku]

Rainbowgym: Thanks for speaking up as people don't believe me when I point out you (or rather people with that view) exist! As I've tried to point out crafting a balanced Bench Manipulation card appears to be incredibly hard for TPC!

untitled: Well, the good news is that you made clear you didn't understand my point. Now I just have to make sure you know you didn't understand my point. Let me quote smaller sections of what you said and perhaps I can clarify. Emphasis will be added to the most pertinent lines.

4. Sure, we have a lot of decks available. And that's a good thing. But you're crazy if you think a 1-1 tech like Slowking or Dodrio for better matchups will work. And 1-0-1? Forget about it. This is the first time I can remember since I started playing that mini-pyramid lines have seen play.

Again, just now:

4. Well I like to take optimistic viewpoints too, but the reality is that any bench sitter with a basic form of 40 HP, any Stage 1 with 80 or less HP, any stage 2 period, or any cards with 2 or more retreat can't be run as 1-of, 1-1 or 1-0-1 techs.

Given the fundamental design of the game, requiring your Evolve into certain cards and that you have to fetch the lower Stages and play then in order (or run a specific card effect to bypass them) to access those Pokemon. Running a less than fleshed out line was supposed to be a huge risk or the basic game design wouldn't be as it is.

Pokemon Catcher does not prevent you from running a Bench Sitter. It prevents you from easily TecHing in a Bench Sitter: not the same thing! Whether this is good or bad for the game is then a second issue. Based on my time with the game its been far to easy to rely on such lines. Nothing against being actually able to play it, but if something is an important part of my deck, I shouldn't be able to slap a 1-0-1 line (as a Stage 2) or a 1-1 line (as a Stage 1). Note that Basic Pokemon are excluded from this concern since by their nature they are easier to search, play, and/or recycle as needed, though if they are meant to attack then they require attacks that can be fueled by a single Energy or some form of Energy acceleration.

You mention "mini-pyramid" lines, a.k.a. basic deck building. Oh, top level decks rarely need to follow it for everything they run, but its a fundamental skill. Deviating from it is meant to be an advanced skill, something you do when you're trying to tweak your deck, not build it initially. I compare complaining that players must run fleshed out Pokemon lines to someone complaining about having to run at least 10 Energy cards in most of their decks in a given format: in Unlimited 10-12 was about average for quite a while, and only decks like Rain Dance ran more! This was possible because other factors of the game were out of balance, but people actually complained about that in the early days of Modified! Yes, some decks can run 10 (or even less!) Energy cards, but I am speaking of this being the norm for deck building in general.

Now all we need is Scramble Energy and Rare Candy back XP

Please tell me that is a joke. If its a joke, it isn't funny but I don't have to explain the obvious of how Rare Candy with its former effect was unbalanced and made Stage 2 Pokemon too powerful and how Scramble Energy is just broken, period. Seriously. -_-

 

[untitled]

Well the list that won worlds ran 3-1-2 Emboar so I think pyramid lines are starting to transfer to advanced deckbuilding as well. The list that got 2nd ran more of the basics than the evolutions as well. And I said tech, I didn't say main strategy Pokemon. You by default should run heavier lines for cards that are important to the fundamental strategy. But there should also be room for some other fun cards in decks. 1-0-1 lines could not be relied for the simple reason a part could get prized or the card could be KO'd. Mother Gengar when I played a couple seasons ago ran 2-1-2 Nidoqueen line, because it was a major part of the deck. But it also often teched a 1-0-1 Dusknoir line because it was a great tech but not a part of the central strategy. Those lines couldn't work now half because of Catcher and half because of Rare Candy nerfing.

As far as the scramble/candy it's a half-joke I suppose. I'd like to see Rare Candy back with "If this your first turn, you can't play this card" at the top of it. And I'd like to see a more scramble-friendly format with something between Scramble Energy and Upper Energy it it. Scramble was too good while Upper sucked.

 

[Otaku]

Well the list that won worlds ran 3-1-2 Emboar so I think pyramid lines are starting to transfer to advanced deckbuilding as well. The list that got 2nd ran more of the basics than the evolutions as well.

Well it really isn't wasn't that rare either. Notice how I said deviating is an advanced skill but not an advanced deck requirement: a good deck doesn't have to avoid this kind of structuring, it merely is a more viable option at that point. Emboar decks are also one of those "exceptions" in that unless you're running the other Emboar for a back-up attacker, you just need to keep a single Emboar in play: the other is wasted space.

And I said tech, I didn't say main strategy Pokemon. You by default should run heavier lines for cards that are important to the fundamental strategy. But there should also be room for some other fun cards in decks. 1-0-1 lines could not be relied for the simple reason a part could get prized or the card could be KO'd. Mother Gengar when I played a couple seasons ago ran 2-1-2 Nidoqueen line, because it was a major part of the deck. But it also often teched a 1-0-1 Dusknoir line because it was a great tech but not a part of the central strategy. Those lines couldn't work now half because of Catcher and half because of Rare Candy nerfing.

And? First and foremost, if you're not relying on it you could try to run a 1-0-1 line in a deck, and in fact that's about the only reason I would do such a thing. Besides, 1-0-1 lines really died with the Rare Candy erratum, since you'd still be risking Pokemon Reversal or a good sniper like Yanmega Prime taking it down. So in your above example, Dusknoir still 'works' because it wasn't important, and your opponent has to way what is more important: preventing Dusknoir or dealing with what you've already got in play. The Nidoqueen line would merely need to be fleshed out a little more, which has basically been my point. If it is important to your deck, you have to run it like you mean it. :thumb:

As far as the scramble/candy it's a half-joke I suppose. I'd like to see Rare Candy back with "If this your first turn, you can't play this card" at the top of it. And I'd like to see a more scramble-friendly format with something between Scramble Energy and Upper Energy it it. Scramble was too good while Upper sucked.

Just checking. Personally I would like Pokemon Breeder reprinted as a Supporter with the old effect of Rare Candy: this would allow you to get one important Stage 2 into play ASAP, and ironically make sure that people relying on this [hypothetical] card wouldn't have to worry about Vileplume or Gothitelle blocking their speedy Evolutions. You couldn't use Junk Arm to spam a single of this card like it can be done with Rare Candy, and someone can't go from an empty Bench to a Bench full of Evolutions in a single turn.

I loved the concept of Scramble Energy, but it was just too good, so we seem to have some common ground. Mostly I blame the effect working more than the turn it was played, though I guess I should be honest and point out that Double Rainbow Energy "helped" break it. Personally I'll just take Double Rainbow Energy back, that was "scramble" enough.

 

[untitled]

We're making the same points for different arguments. I'm saying Catcher is bad for the game because it restricts creative deckbuilding by forcing you to waste space on bulkier lines, making less room for techs that would also need to be bulkier if they were going to be in the deck.

You're then saying that the game was meant to be played like that, yet it seems like most people prefer to play the game in a different way. Or at least those who hate Catcher/Reversal/Junk Arm (basically 90% of the people who have posted in these threads.) I can't speak for everybody, and I guess the high-ups of TPCI prefer playing the game the way you described it lol.

 

[vaporeon]

Reversal should not be in the same format as Catcher and Catcher should not be in the same format as Junk Arm. The problem is with fast decks like Zekrom and Donphan using Catcher. The card is only broken when you're getting downed by them, losing your key cards of the deck. Deck building becomes less fun because most of the card pool gets restricted, then you're looking back at Donphan and Zekrom.

The whole idea of this format was not to have another MD on format. The only people who like the card will play Zekrom. The card is just too powerful and should be banned to maintain the health of the game.

 

[ogremarauder]

Revive "counters" catcher for ur techs and other stuff. They catcher ur benched basic. K.O. it. You play Revive- it goes back on ur bench, you play twins, things don't look so bleak. just saying that it's not the end of the pokeverse.

 

[PKM4]

Its just like Bright Look and there was at least one way to deal with that. There are also ways to deal with this and they are Vileplume and Gothetle.