Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

City's Is Over, On To States, What Are You Expecting?

Just because Kingdra hasn't seen much play doesn't make it a bad deck. It is actually extremely solid, still, a year and a half into its life. Expert Belt and Nidoqueen make it swarmable AND tankable, and you force Luxray/Lucario players to drop a Crobat G and use Trash Bolt to get the OHKO, unless they run their own Expert Belt. Broken Time Space already gets around Spiritomb easily. The deck's biggest problems pre-HGSS are the aforementioned Luxray/Lucario as well as Dialga/Garchomp and Palkia. It does well against everything else. Post-HGSS, it gets Pokemon Communicator and Great Blissey as a tech option. It beats Donphan handily.

Speaking of Donphan, I wouldn't feel safe running that at States. It will lose to Gyarados, Kingdra, and any Feraligatr variant that gets set up (I know the donk potential is there for Donphan, but then again it's also there for Feraligatr with Rain Dance). It maxes at 80 with Expert Belt, assuming that its other attack is neglected, which will probably be the case, and it has an unpayable retreat cost. Kingdra begs to be compared to it, and it comes out on top in all three areas (factoring in Dragon Pump's bench damage). Its Body isn't as good as it seems, when so many things can OHKO or 2HKO it anyway.

I expect Gardevoir/Gallade to do well. With Expert Belt, DCE, and possibly Spiritomb, the deck regains a lot of potency. Gallade is such an amazing and underrated card in this format-- being able to OHKO virtually anything is huge. SP decks will have all of their level Xs OHKOed with 2 prize flips and an Expert Belt attached (and Luxray doesn't even require the flips or the Belt). Gallade's OHKO ability makes opponents pay for dropping Expert Belt, and eliminates tanking as an option. It's nice to be able to instantly get rid of even the most menacing threat in just one move. Then, of course, Psychic Lock with hand disruption is as good as ever, shutting down most of the format when the attack gets chained, which DCE helps assure will happen. Yes, turn 2 Psychic Lock/Psychic Cut is a possibility, but it doesn't have to occur. The ability to charge back-up attackers in two rather than three turns is amazing enough, just like in the deck's heyday with DRE.

Both Typhlosions interest me, although I do acknowledge the problems they'll have with water. I also like both Feraligatr, although Jumpluff, SP, and G/G will all give them trouble.

I am intrigued by Charizard with Ninetales and a Prime Typhlosion tech. Getting OHKOed by Gyarados is troublesome though.

I have had my eye on Porygon Z as a potential metagame counter. Mode Crash is the perfect antidote for a format congested with special energies, and, ironically, the very energy that Mode Crash targets is also a great addition to the deck, allowing instant Overloads. It does have a number of bad match-ups, including Dialga G, Gengar, G/G, and Donphan, but it's still intriguing. A tech Mewtwo lv. X would help against SPs.

Flygon's going to get faster and, consequently, better. Garchomp SV will be more playable, especially with Exploud to counter Garchomp C/Flygon. Its Body is better than before with DCE around, since opponents running it will only have 2 energy cards attached to their Pokemon at a time (barring a purposeful stack to reduce damage from Speed Impact), and when you return the DCE to their hand, they'll only have 1 energy card/energy attached, letting you do 120 with Expert Belt.

Garchomp C/DCE abuse will be rampant, and Luxray/Garchomp will have even more deadly control over what is getting hit and when.

Jumpluff is an interesting card. I wish it had at least 20 more HP though; I fear that although it can hit big for little, its fragility may be a hamper.
 
Last edited:
Typhlosion is...horrible. If u play a fire deck its either Charizard for the resistance against Donphan, or Blazeray.
Surprised no one's mentioned an old favorite:
Eeveelutions
 
^^^ Typhlosion by itself for the most part is mediocre. When used as a tech for Charizard, it becomes that much more reliable. Its power doesn't discriminate between bench and active, as well as having a pretty decent attack alongside Zard.

Speaking of Donphan, I wouldn't feel safe running that at States.
Click to expand...

I should be much more precise. By itself as a deck running just 4 Phanpy's and 4 Donphan Primes, its not that good. It is as you say, not good against most decks in the format due to that water weakness (though once again, I'm not seeing this being relevant because Kingdra still is negated by Luxchomp, and Gyarados still has its counter in Cursegar and other early disruption decks.) and really, once you recover from that early swarm of damage, it is indeed pretty tough to get around.

But.. what if you were to take this nasty early game beatdown, and combine it with the late game antics of a certain insectoid dragon? Everyone keeps looking at Machamp as the combo for Flygon.. I've been looking at Donphan for quite some time now. Why? It gets around one of the problems Flygon's had of late, its name being Spiritomb. You can BTS and beat that jerk down for 60 as early as T1 without wasting time looking for a Machoke and a Machamp. It gets around Unown G, and it has the wall potential to be able to take quite a beating before finally kicking the bucket AND it weaks Luxray GL Level X. This is ALL in a Stage 1 people. You don't need its second attacks. Just drop a fighting, drop a Queen and go to town while setting up Flygons. Best part is he can also get out for free as opposed to four energy thanks to Rainbow Float. (Which is why I've granted this variant the name of "Dumbo")

Don't knock it. Its certainly suitable with a nasty attacker like Flygon. Alone, I totally agree, but Flygon's been giving a lot of decks trouble still to this moment. IMHO, this only really makes it better.

I like the idea of Porygon Z making a comeback. He's still pretty quick to deal with the SP's, weaks dragons and has Mode Crash. I like that.
 
Naki Feralkin said:
^^^ Typhlosion by itself for the most part is mediocre. When used as a tech for Charizard, it becomes that much more reliable. Its power doesn't discriminate between bench and active, as well as having a pretty decent attack alongside Zard.



I should be much more precise. By itself as a deck running just 4 Phanpy's and 4 Donphan Primes, its not that good. It is as you say, not good against most decks in the format due to that water weakness (though once again, I'm not seeing this being relevant because Kingdra still is negated by Luxchomp, and Gyarados still has its counter in Cursegar and other early disruption decks.) and really, once you recover from that early swarm of damage, it is indeed pretty tough to get around.

But.. what if you were to take this nasty early game beatdown, and combine it with the late game antics of a certain insectoid dragon? Everyone keeps looking at Machamp as the combo for Flygon.. I've been looking at Donphan for quite some time now. Why? It gets around one of the problems Flygon's had of late, its name being Spiritomb. You can BTS and beat that jerk down for 60 as early as T1 without wasting time looking for a Machoke and a Machamp. It gets around Unown G, and it has the wall potential to be able to take quite a beating before finally kicking the bucket AND it weaks Luxray GL Level X. This is ALL in a Stage 1 people. You don't need its second attacks. Just drop a fighting, drop a Queen and go to town while setting up Flygons. Best part is he can also get out for free as opposed to four energy thanks to Rainbow Float. (Which is why I've granted this variant the name of "Dumbo")

Don't knock it. Its certainly suitable with a nasty attacker like Flygon. Alone, I totally agree, but Flygon's been giving a lot of decks trouble still to this moment. IMHO, this only really makes it better.

I like the idea of Porygon Z making a comeback. He's still pretty quick to deal with the SP's, weaks dragons and has Mode Crash. I like that.
Click to expand...

Now that's what I'm talkin about. I do like Jumpluff also. Just tech in a good water pokemon and you're good to go. Pichu isn't needed though.
 
Naki Feralkin said:
5. Cursegar (Don't expect this deck to leave any time soon, it loses no power unless Tomb doesn't get errata'd, which I'm expecting it will.
Click to expand...

http://pokebeach.com/tcg/legend-heartgold-and-soulsilver-collection/faq

FAQ said:
Q: If a Spiritomb (PA) with the “Keystone Seal” Poke-Body is Active, can I play Goods cards from my hand?
A: No, you can’t. Trainer cards from the DP through DPt series are equivalent to Goods cards from the LEGEND series.
Click to expand...
 
Then again, Worlds 09 rulings on Looker's and Inviting Trap say that we don't always follow the same rules the Japanese do.
 
I am still hoping someone somewhere will create a rogue deck that will destroy all other decks.
Reminds me of last States when I built Gardevoir/Gallade/Weavile and CRUSHED everybody I played.
 
Typhlosion isn't horrible. It does 120 for 3, which is easy to power up and then recharge after the discard with Typhlosion Prime's Afterburner. It has high HP and low retreat, and OHKOs an unenhanced (ie. no Expert Belt/Shaymin lv. X) Jumpluff, if that gets big, for 2 energies. Typhlosion Prime can discard DCEs with its attack. Both give Dialga G trouble. However, as I acknowledged, their water weakness is a problem, although there is Exploud as an option to remedy that.

As a tech, Typhlosion Prime is certainly far from horrible. It is perfect for Charizard/Ninetales, turning the discard from the latter's Power into a free attachment on Charizard, letting you do truly huge damage that much quicker, and also providing you with the ability to keep doing that damage throughout the game when you start losing energy from KOs.

I can see Donphan in Flygon, although Machamp is still the all-around better partner, in my opinion. Take Out beats 60 for 1, keeping SP in check, and Machamp lv. X is actually a huge asset to the deck whose absence would be felt, especially with Rainbow Float to let it get back to the bench for Nidoqueen nursing if it isn't OHKOed after leveling up.
 
Everyone's failing to notice Wigglytuff swarm. With Reversals in lieu of Gust of Wind, DCE, and Bill's in the format it is going to be the play. Yes, it will have issues against Donphan, but that's an ugly elephant so who really cares. It hits Garch C and Flygon for weakness, and it doesn't afraid of anything. Calling it now. Wigglytuff Swarm sweeps States '09.

Naki Feralkin said:
But.. what if you were to take this nasty early game beatdown, and combine it with the late game antics of a certain insectoid dragon? Everyone keeps looking at Machamp as the combo for Flygon.. I've been looking at Donphan for quite some time now. Why? It gets around one of the problems Flygon's had of late, its name being Spiritomb. You can BTS and beat that jerk down for 60 as early as T1 without wasting time looking for a Machoke and a Machamp. It gets around Unown G, and it has the wall potential to be able to take quite a beating before finally kicking the bucket AND it weaks Luxray GL Level X. This is ALL in a Stage 1 people. You don't need its second attacks. Just drop a fighting, drop a Queen and go to town while setting up Flygons. Best part is he can also get out for free as opposed to four energy thanks to Rainbow Float. (Which is why I've granted this variant the name of "Dumbo".
Click to expand...

That's great and all, but who would you rather be packing post T3?
 
Last edited:
That's great and all, but who would you rather be packing post T3?
Click to expand...

Flygon. By playing Flygon a little bit over the season I found that I really would have liked having an early attacker while building up a Flygon on the side. Its not nearly as hard now thanks to DCE, but it certainly leaves an option open, and having that early aggression without trying to fish out a candy or something else to start the beatdown is pretty nice IMO. Machamp can be considered an early attacker, but theres still Spiritomb to consider.

He's definitely a sick side option and he can wall pretty well, assuming theres no Dialga G LX on the field, nor is he bad with an Expert Belt attached, either.

AMT: That's only the japanese FAQ, no? I'd much prefer to wait until compendium gives me some more fluid answers.
 
Naki Feralkin said:
Flygon. By playing Flygon a little bit over the season I found that I really would have liked having an early attacker while building up a Flygon on the side. Its not nearly as hard now thanks to DCE, but it certainly leaves an option open, and having that early aggression without trying to fish out a candy or something else to start the beatdown is pretty nice IMO. Machamp can be considered an early attacker, but theres still Spiritomb to consider.

He's definitely a sick side option and he can wall pretty well, assuming theres no Dialga G LX on the field, nor is he bad with an Expert Belt attached, either.

AMT: That's only the japanese FAQ, no? I'd much prefer to wait until compendium gives me some more fluid answers.
Click to expand...

I was talking about between Machamp or Donphan. Which of the two can spit out a scrambled counter-KO late-game? Machamp gives you more options, the ability to hit higher damage values, et cetera. All you do is sacrifice the ability to KO your way out of a Spiritomb lock as easily.

Side note: Do your Flygon builds really have trouble with Spiritomb? Mine all operate just fine under 'tomb lock barring garbage hands coupled with misplays from being on tilt.
 
^

The way that I look at it is a few things.

Machamp was used in Flygon mostly as a counter to SP decks as a whole for the donk factor. Most SP Decks have responded in kind by playing Psychic frogs, Unown G's, what have you. You then have to hope to god you flip a decent amount of heads off Hurricane Punch since now Take Out is BL useless (40 for one? Seriously, just go the extra 20..) with a G on. I dunno about you, but I'm a relatively unlucky guy who has seen 0 damage off Hurricane Punch on multiple occasions.

Granted, you could take the extra time and level up the Machamp and have the additional HP's and damage, but thats where the high risk factor comes in. After you drastically used a Machamp Level X to destroy a high powered Dialga G LX (Which is a good reason to do it, granted..), your opponent without trouble shrugs off the Machamp with a Uxie, who goes back into the deck and then dumps something else in your way.

Then we look at Donphan. He has 10 less HP's than Machamp, which is a minor detail considering we're looking at a Stage 1 Pokemon (Only one I've seen thus far with more HP's was MT Blissey, and we know how good she was back in the day), a body similar to that of Obama, which adds to a frustrating factor, and also can manage very well off of Nidoqueen.

Now, we get to the number here. 60 Vanilla for 10 to your bench. Kinda mediocre, I agree. Its second attack isn't really worth mentioning since its even more vanilla and runs 3 fighting. Ouch. Can he still one shot Luxray GL? Yep. Can he still one shot most pokemon early on? Yep. Can he get through SP's? Yep. Is he weak to Psychic Frog? Nope.

As far as utility to a primary attacker goes, he saves room. He gives you that extra candy that could be saved for a later Nidoqueen/Flygon. He can do about an equal amount of damage to Machamp (not looking at Level X), and survive a ton to boot, especially with a Belt on, he gets free retreat through Flygon, and adds to his damage. And if you really want to be feisty (since I know a ton of Flychamps run a Mem berry), you can flail for a lot off Phanpy.

We could argue that Gyarados/Kingdra/Palkia G will cause it problems. My response to that is Gyarados is already a good deck, and you're likely to get one shot by it ANYWAYS (with or without weakness), and you can still give it problems via that early game (Arguably Champ can do the same, but you still need candies..), Kingdra is not impressive to me atm thanks to the meta, and Palkia G is not giving me a reason to be worried about it.

Personally, I think the stage one makes it a bit more practical in a meta designed around trainer lock. And to answer the side note, I had very little trouble dispatching Flychamps with my Cursegar last weekend. Spiritomb made them very unhappy. Even moreso after I wagered their hand away. My first round opponent even told me it was an auto-loss matchup to him, and this player I hold a lot of respect for.
 
^You can actually recycle DCE's. Electivire FB X can grab 3, attach them to something like Quagsire GL who can't be sniped off, then you PokeTurn Quagsire, adn have 3 DCE back in your hand for 1 turn of not attacking.
 
Naki Feralkin said:
^

The way that I look at it is a few things.

Machamp was used in Flygon mostly as a counter to SP decks as a whole for the donk factor. Most SP Decks have responded in kind by playing Psychic frogs, Unown G's, what have you. You then have to hope to god you flip a decent amount of heads off Hurricane Punch since now Take Out is BL useless (40 for one? Seriously, just go the extra 20..) with a G on. I dunno about you, but I'm a relatively unlucky guy who has seen 0 damage off Hurricane Punch on multiple occasions.

Granted, you could take the extra time and level up the Machamp and have the additional HP's and damage, but thats where the high risk factor comes in. After you drastically used a Machamp Level X to destroy a high powered Dialga G LX (Which is a good reason to do it, granted..), your opponent without trouble shrugs off the Machamp with a Uxie, who goes back into the deck and then dumps something else in your way.

Then we look at Donphan. He has 10 less HP's than Machamp, which is a minor detail considering we're looking at a Stage 1 Pokemon (Only one I've seen thus far with more HP's was MT Blissey, and we know how good she was back in the day), a body similar to that of Obama, which adds to a frustrating factor, and also can manage very well off of Nidoqueen.

Now, we get to the number here. 60 Vanilla for 10 to your bench. Kinda mediocre, I agree. Its second attack isn't really worth mentioning since its even more vanilla and runs 3 fighting. Ouch. Can he still one shot Luxray GL? Yep. Can he still one shot most pokemon early on? Yep. Can he get through SP's? Yep. Is he weak to Psychic Frog? Nope.

As far as utility to a primary attacker goes, he saves room. He gives you that extra candy that could be saved for a later Nidoqueen/Flygon. He can do about an equal amount of damage to Machamp (not looking at Level X), and survive a ton to boot, especially with a Belt on, he gets free retreat through Flygon, and adds to his damage. And if you really want to be feisty (since I know a ton of Flychamps run a Mem berry), you can flail for a lot off Phanpy.

We could argue that Gyarados/Kingdra/Palkia G will cause it problems. My response to that is Gyarados is already a good deck, and you're likely to get one shot by it ANYWAYS (with or without weakness), and you can still give it problems via that early game (Arguably Champ can do the same, but you still need candies..), Kingdra is not impressive to me atm thanks to the meta, and Palkia G is not giving me a reason to be worried about it.

Personally, I think the stage one makes it a bit more practical in a meta designed around trainer lock. And to answer the side note, I had very little trouble dispatching Flychamps with my Cursegar last weekend. Spiritomb made them very unhappy. Even moreso after I wagered their hand away. My first round opponent even told me it was an auto-loss matchup to him, and this player I hold a lot of respect for.
Click to expand...

I like your arguments, Naki, and I considered most of your points. Machamp gives you options not present against Dialga G, Garchomp C, and Blaziken FB, notably. Also, you dismiss Champ X as a liability, which is true in the sense of limited information. However, Champ's higher output means you can make a net gain in attachments on board, which is crucial. Both Machamp and Donphan fail against most S2 swarmers(+Gyarados), equally hard.

I haven't tested Cursegar extensively with Flychamp (I played and lost against it once when I had never seen cursegar/tomb before... I've since teched against it). All I'll say about my build is that it is down with Spiritomb starts.

For me, it's a simple matter: I expect Luxchomp to remain big. Machamp gives me better matchup against Luxchomp, and with the greater damage output he represents, better odds against other energy intensive decks.
 
Shino Bug Master said:
^You can actually recycle DCE's. Electivire FB X can grab 3, attach them to something like Quagsire GL who can't be sniped off, then you PokeTurn Quagsire, adn have 3 DCE back in your hand for 1 turn of not attacking.
Click to expand...

that could be fun if you put something up to stall for a turn. or else you take a bunch of damage probably.
 
I don't want Plox to comeback, 1 season is already enough for 1 deck to take.

I'm expecting decks that require a lot of powers for States and Regional.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top