Cobalion/Electrode Prime/Kyurem

[Mazu]

This deck has been having some success around Japan, and as I always liked Cobalion and was curious to see how it worked I built it. It seems like a fun, versatile and hard deck to play - though I have a lot of testing to do yet. The deck seems to beat, or at least give Tyram a hard time, and though I have yet to playtest against Zekrom I think the result will be the same. At worst I see it as a tier 1.5 deck which should be learnt how to play against, at best I see it as a tier 1 deck competing with Tyram and Zekrom for the BDIF-title.

I wanted everybody else's opinion on the deck, as I think it needs to be put a lot of work into it to make it work. I've decided to divide the different cards that could be included in the deck into two groups, so that we can see which has to be included for it to survive in a competitive metagame and which could be included to improve certain match-ups or just add some variety.

I've not yet decided if I should write longer descriptions for each card or just short notes, but I'll start with the short ones and elaborate if needed.

Cards that has to be included:

2-4 Cobalion - Either main or backup attacker depending on your preferences

2-4 Kyurem - Same as Cobalion

2-2/3-3 Electrode Prime - Gives you the energy acceleration needed, I'm still not quite sure about the numbers

3-4 Pokémon Collector - I'd advise 4 but put 3 in there because there's really not much to set up

8-10 Draw power - PONT, N, Twins, Sage's, all very recommendable, Juniper decks you out

3-4 Pokémon Catcher - Always fun to draw up something useless and lock with Cobalion/spread with Kyurem

3-4 Junk Arm - Reuse every trainer, cool

3-4 Eviolite - You need this many to KO back Reshirams after Blue Flare or just stay tanky with Cobalion

2-3 Switch - I recommend this many because of high retreat costs

1-2 Night Maintenance.. I mean Super Rod - Great if Pokémon gets discarded by Electrode and for retrieving energy

2-3 Pokémon Communication, or just some way to search for Electrode consistently

16 energy - Even out between metal (use special) and water, rainbow is great in here because no damage drawback

Cards that could be included:
I'll hold off on numbers here because it's dependent on your metagame and preferences.

Terrakion - Great revenge killer for anything weak to it, has great synergy with the deck in general

Landorus - Zekrom killer, has synergy in spreading damage like Kyurem

Shaymin - I wanted to put this on the first list, but whatever. At some point in the game you'll want to move energy

Some of the draw supporters - I guess some are better than others, but I need to figure out which

Pokégear - Personally I love this card to get that T1 Collector or just a much needed supporter

Jirachi CL - I have my doubts regarding this, but it could work due to a lot of damage getting spread around

Ho-oh CL/Heatmor NV - Durant counter, as this decks out quickly against any mill decks

Research Record - Useful to save non-energies from discarding

Cleffa - I was'nt sure were to put it, but ended up here because it's hard for anything in the deck to retreat, and the strategy is very easy to pull off

Darkrai & Cresselia Legend - Nice tech that can come as a surprise and turn the game to your advantage


I would be happy if we could discuss these cards one at a time, if you think I've missed any I'll consider adding them to the list.

THIS POST HAS RECEIVED GURU POINTS! ( click here to discover why ) - GuRu SQuaD

 

[TrainerEnjay]

I have looked into the japanese version of a kyurem deck as well. It's definitely interesting and probably better than the hyped feraligatr combo.

Cobalion- im surprised seeing and hearing him being so easy to tech into decks. Metal energy is required for this card and I think most people try to stay away from multiple energy types (aside from special energies). I see 2-3 of this card.
Kyurem- Main attacker of the deck imo. so 4.
Electrode- main form of energy acceleration. 3-3 for consistency, but honestly I couldn't see more than a 2-2.
Shaymin- 1-2 would be good imo.
Pokemon collector- yes 3 or 4 because it will be important to the setup and consistency of this deck.
Twins-3 or 4, for electrode and also beacuse it takes time to spread-kill.
PONT- 3 this is the way to go. I think both sages and juniper will deck this out too much.
N- 2 or 3. good card.
Junk arm- 3 is enough for any deck that doesn't discard purposely.
Catcher- 2 maybe 3 but this can be junk armed so I say 2. Great card in any deck obviously.
Eviolite- 2 or 3. I agree with your tanking input.
Switch- 2 should be enough.
Super rod- no more than 2.
Communication- 3 or 4. I would consider going more high end on this because it is the only way to rly get electrode.
I've always loved the combination of collector/communication as well.

Very trainer heavy thus far. Some cards I would consider:

Biancas- Because it is so trainer heavy.
Cheren-very nice card. Draw 3 no questions asked.
Flower Shop Lady- Not a big fan of the card, but makes sense in this deck. 1 would probably be enough, no more than 2. Helps from decking out and getting back resources.
Revive- to retrieve those basics
Pokegear 3.0- to get that collector or twins as you said.
Research Record- I'm not sure if it's worth the space, but it is worth a try.
D/CL- also worth a try
Jirachi- Devolve the field to get KOs. Worth a try.

8 Water
4 Special Metals
4 Rainbow

 

[honchvire]

You should check out "Nuke Town" by vaporeon for some electrode deck ideas.
You're already giving up 1-2 prizes a game with your own electrode, so I dont think you'd need more than 3 of each attacker. I definitely like at least 1 shaymin, 4-3 'trode, and 4 collectors. Its crucial to get that first Energymite off early so you want to bench Voltorbs in 2s if you can. Also Voltorb is fragile so if you ever start with it by itself you will want to snag other basics real quickly.
Electrode's discard can be mean, but with redundancy in T/S/S, 16-18 energy and junk arms, its pretty manageable.
I've looked at terrakion and landorus and I'm leaning toward landorus more as zek killer. Terra is just to heavy to retreat, land has lightning resist and an energy recycling first attack.
My 2 cents
Posted with Mobile style...

 

[vaporeon]

I already have my Kyurem deck ideas.

 

[Poke Trainer J]

Really interested in building this deck to see how it fares, been looking for a 2nd deck to build for quite a long while. I was browsing around the web and I did find a very consistent decklist of Cobalion/Kyurem/Electrode:

Pokemon (14)

4 Cobalion NV
3-3 Electrode Prime
3 Kyurem NV
1 Cleffa

Trainers/Supporters (31)

4 Professor Juniper
4 Pokemon Collector
3 Research Record
3 Professor Oak's New Theory
3 Pokemon Catcher
3 Revive
3 N
3 Junk Arm
3 Eviolite
2 Super Rod

Energies (15)

7 :metal:
4 Special :metal:
4 :water:

Deck Total: 60

Hope that works. Electrode Prime and N have amazing synergy with eachother it's not even funny cause the more you KO Electrode to pump Cobalion or Kyurem with energies the better N gets by downsizing your opponent's hand. I guess you could run Twins over PONT but it's not necessary though. Kyurem is in the deck to counter TyRam and to cover for Cobalion for Type Advantage.

Credit goes to the Deck Out Site for the List, I changed it up a bit to make it more consistent...

THIS POST HAS RECEIVED GURU POINTS! ( click here to discover why ) - GuRu SQuaD

 

[vaporeon]

I'm using electrode in my list as well but my list is far from this list.

 

[Mazu]

-cut-

I guess Bianca might be worth a shot, but I think Cheren is horrible in here. That card is only useful for decks that have some other kind of draw-power (for example Ninetales) and is just so much worse than most other supporters you can put in here. Twins really isn't that necessary, as the "Twins engine" actually sucks imo. and N is just better here. 1-2 could be played just because you usually stay behind in prizes half the game and it's useful to draw into one. FSL is simply exceeded by Super Rod. Revive is ok but yet again I think Super Rod is better. When you're thinking about getting those bulky Pokémon back into your hand your deck is most likely thin enough to draw into them from the deck.

You should check out "Nuke Town" by vaporeon for some electrode deck ideas.
You're already giving up 1-2 prizes a game with your own electrode, so I dont think you'd need more than 3 of each attacker. I definitely like at least 1 shaymin, 4-3 'trode, and 4 collectors. Its crucial to get that first Energymite off early so you want to bench Voltorbs in 2s if you can. Also Voltorb is fragile so if you ever start with it by itself you will want to snag other basics real quickly.
Electrode's discard can be mean, but with redundancy in T/S/S, 16-18 energy and junk arms, its pretty manageable.
I've looked at terrakion and landorus and I'm leaning toward landorus more as zek killer. Terra is just to heavy to retreat, land has lightning resist and an energy recycling first attack.
My 2 cents
Posted with Mobile style...

If you want me to look into something please don't expect me to go look for it, a link would be nice.
3 of the main attacker and 2 of the secondary seems like a nice number, at least I agree that 4 is a bit overkill. More than 3-3 Electrode is a waste of space imo. as you won't use it more than 2 times a game. I like Terrakion better because the attack is cheaper, and it doesn't damage your bench. Landorus' resistance doesn't matte because Terrakion has 20 more HP anyways, which means Terrakion is 20 HP better against anything not lightning. The retreat cost might be an issue, but with this deck you should play a decent number of Switch anyways.

I already have my Kyurem deck ideas.

Comments like these actually annoy me more than asking for decklists, but for the sake of a rational discussion I'm just going to tell you to be constructive or stay away. Post count doesn't add inches you know.

-snip-

Yeah, that list looks very consistent. I think it's a great place to start, though I can assure you adjustments need to be made if you want to put up a fight against top tier decks.

 

[TrainerEnjay]

@poke trainer j: Looks like a pretty good list, but can you afford to have 4 juniper along with the electrode strategy? nothing in the deck hits particularly hard so the likelihood of decking out seems too great. I could understand if you were getting oneshot after oneshot.

@mazu: Good points on everything. I do think twins is a little more useful in here for early game than you would think. Manipulating prizes by knocking out electrode and abusing twins could really help the setup. That's just my opinion though and we will only be able to tell through playtesting. I also added FSL because I think the deck will be very trainer-heavy and may have a problem with trainer lock decks. So adding in just 1 wouldn't hurt consistency and would give you a way out. Otherwise, I see what you're saying on everything else.

 

[Rambo1000]

I already have my Kyurem deck ideas.

Sweet man, you and everyone else who has seen the card.

I'm using electrode in my list as well but my list is far from this list.

Did I miss when one of your decks won something important? Why do you keep posting as if anyone cares about your Kyurem deck list?

 

[vaporeon]

Sweet man, you and everyone else who has seen the card.



Did I miss when one of your decks won something important? Why do you keep posting as if anyone cares about your Kyurem deck list?

Well, yeah, one of my decks did win something. No need to be a jerk about it.

 

[Poke Trainer J]

@poke trainer j: Looks like a pretty good list, but can you afford to have 4 juniper along with the electrode strategy? nothing in the deck hits particularly hard so the likelihood of decking out seems too great. I could understand if you were getting oneshot after oneshot.

Super Rod is supposed to help prevent you from decking out with Juniper, maybe I should up it to 3 Super Rod's in the deck I suppose.

 

[Laxation]

If you want me to look into something please don't expect me to go look for it, a link would be nice.

Since youre asking for advice, I'm pretty sure he's trying to help you out. If you dont want his help, no need to be rude about it just because he didnt go 110%. At least he tried!

 

[cpeterik]

^^^ It's your fault for posting smug comments like
"I already have my Kyurem deck ideas."
and
"I'm using electrode in my list as well but my list is far from this list."
LOL

 

[Cetra]

What am I even looking at? I don't even know...

 

[Mazu]

Can we please just stop talking about vaporeon? He doesn't think or play like most others, he's not contributing, he's only whining over his supposed victories with"bad" decks. Fine. Let's get over it. Giving a **** about him doesn't make us better players. I'm tired of my thread getting spammed down at the cause of a single personality, so please stop or go somewhere else.

Super Rod is supposed to help prevent you from decking out with Juniper, maybe I should up it to 3 Super Rod's in the deck I suppose.

The number of Junipers was something I forgot to address about your list. You're already burning through the deck with Electrode and the other supporters, Juniper will only make you discard valuable card so that you can deck out. Even with 3 Super Rods, it's still just a waste of space to add speed this deck doesn't really need.

Since youre asking for advice, I'm pretty sure he's trying to help you out. If you dont want his help, no need to be rude about it just because he didnt go 110%. At least he tried!

I know he is, I just don't want to go all over the gym/internet to find what he suggested I should look into. I don't think I was rude, you might have noticed words like "please" and "nice" in my post. 110 % isn't necessary, but I saw it more like 90 %. If there's no link there's really no help, because I won't be bothered to look for it. I'm still glad that he helped and just wanted him to provide a link, suggesting that he continues to provide links in the future.

What am I even looking at? I don't even know...

Yeah, the deck is very confusing when you first look at it. Once you try it out though, it's a very fun, versatile and competitive deck to play.

 

[cabd]

Pokemon (14)

4 Cobalion NV
3-3 Electrode Prime
3 Kyurem NV
1 Cleffa

Trainers/Supporters (31)

4 Professor Juniper
4 Pokemon Collector
3 Research Record
3 Professor Oak's New Theory
3 Pokemon Catcher
3 Super Rod
3 N
3 Junk Arm
3 Eviolite
2 Sage's Training

Energies (15)

7 :metal:
4 Special :metal:
4 :water:

Deck Total: 60

Instead, I'd say drop juniper for 2 more sage.

Pokemon (14)

4 Cobalion NV
3-3 Electrode Prime
3 Kyurem NV
1 Cleffa

Trainers/Supporters (31)

4 Pokemon Collector
4 Research Record
4 Professor Oak's New Theory
3 Pokemon Catcher
3 Super Rod
3 N
3 Junk Arm
3 Eviolite
4 Sage's Training

Energies (15)

7 :metal:
4 Special :metal:
4 :water:

Deck Total: 60

Still, that's a pretty consistent and good list for it.

I've got everything except the NV cards ready to go on TCGO. Can't wait to film some matches with it.

 

[TrainerEnjay]

I still think a couple FSL and at least 1 shaymin would do this list a lot of good^. FSL under trainer lock, plus it's 6 cards from your discard pile that you can get back. Very helpful here. and when you get an unecessary amount of energy on cobalion (or all your waters) Shaymin is perfect. The list is pretty tight but you could easily take out a PONT, Collector (4 in any deck, even cinccino, is overkill to me because it becomes a dead draw a lot of the time), research record (you have junk arm). I'd also keep Juniper, just have 2 instead of 4.

 

[Mazu]

I never really liked FSL because it uses your supporter for the turn which is better spent on getting more resources to make things difficult for your opponent. Especially with Super Rod in the format, it's just a waste of space.

Also, I'd rethink the use of research record. The only time you will need it is T2, and then there's more important things to think about. It could be useful sometime later in the game though, but then 2-3 would be enough. I'll try it out in different quantities to see how it works.

 

[Shining Zeraphime]

A little Question here: Are 3 Kyurem enough for the Reshiphlosion matchup? How often will you attack with Kyurem? I think with 3 Kyurem you can attack 4-5 times, cause you wont always have a eviolite and Reshiram can calculate the outrage dmg to ko Kyurem very fast. 4x30 are 120, 5x30 are 150. 150 dmg is enough for the kills, 120 is not. Sounds like a very risky matchup.

Do you have experience? Is it enough? When you have 120 on the Typhlosions and than you are out of NRG, its like nothing, cause you still need one hit per pkmn.


Edit: Ah, super rod to reuse, im sooooo stupid -.-"

 

[Mazu]

A little Question here: Are 3 Kyurem enough for the Reshiphlosion matchup? How often will you attack with Kyurem? I think with 3 Kyurem you can attack 4-5 times, cause you wont always have a eviolite and Reshiram can calculate the outrage dmg to ko Kyurem very fast. 4x30 are 120, 5x30 are 150. 150 dmg is enough for the kills, 120 is not. Sounds like a very risky matchup.

Do you have experience? Is it enough? When you have 120 on the Typhlosions and than you are out of NRG, its like nothing, cause you still need one hit per pkmn.

3 Kyurem will definitely be enough, and you can even manage with 2 if you are good enough. If you promote Kyurem without an Eviolite you are doing it wrong, and the same goes for planning ahead with Outrage damage. You just have to play smart, and if you're not able to, choose a simpler deck. People who playtest will know what to do against Tyram, to watch out for building up Outrage with Glaciate etc. Those who do not playtest does not deserve to win imo., so I'm not going to spend hours doing a lot of calculations and thorough explanation of strategy for them. Note that this is not directed towards you specifically, just people in general.

Also note that if you choose to Catcher and kill their Typhlosions with the Outrage damage on Kyurem, you can safely promote Cobalion to just take over the game. They can't attach 4 energies a turn or consistently come up with enough switches to keep the game up (unless they play more Switches than usual).