Cobalion/Electrode Prime/Kyurem

[vaporeon]

If you want you can even play with Plus Power. Pokemon Catcher is not needed or should be played at with one, the same with N but maybe at least 2. You are going to WANT to play with Twins because they help a lot. Take Out Cleffa, it's not needed.

If anything, try to find a way to fit in a Reshiram or 2 or some other cheap fire attacker. That's my 2 cents.

 

[Mazu]

If you want you can even play with Plus Power. Pokemon Catcher is not needed or should be played at with one, the same with N but maybe at least 2. You are going to WANT to play with Twins because they help a lot. Take Out Cleffa, it's not needed.

If anything, try to find a way to fit in a Reshiram or 2 or some other cheap fire attacker. That's my 2 cents.

I've come to realize Pluspower might be useful against Reshiram to ensure the OHKO as a smart player can easily play around Outrage by first attacking with a Reshiram with 3 damage counters on it (from Glaciate, Afterburner etc.) and then with Blue Flare. All Kyurem can do is answer with Outrage in the turn between which will only hit for 80-100, thus giving Reshiram the KO and the prize lead. I'll need to find a way for Kyurem to deal enough damage with Glaciate fast enough to prevent small damage Outrages so that the KO will always come in Kyurem's favor.

You may be right on Pokémon Catcher as I've had little use for it yet, but then again my play-testing has been limited. Catchering up something and proceeding with Glaciate/Iron Breaker just seems too nice. Personally I only play 2 N because it won't be useful until later in the game where your opponent has 4 or less prizes. I agree on playing a number of twins if you can find the space, but I don't see it as an absolute necessity. Then again it might work because you mostly control the prize lead and this deck needs few but specific cards. Cleffa is a great card because it kind of turns all those Collectors and Communications into ways to grab a PONT in a tight spot. Although it could ruin the game for you, because in a deck where you basically give away 1-2 prizes a game you really do not want to give them another easy one.

When suggesting a tech it's very useful if you also say something about WHY it should be put in the deck. The only reason I can see is countering Durant or other Cobalions, but that should have come from you. Besides Reshiram isn't cheap, it needs two energies which is initially not a part of the deck (besides Rainbows, which aren't reliable) or damage which in the case of Cobalion will force you to retreat. Against a Durant deck you're not even taking damage, so please explain to me why Reshiram is needed.

Thank you for contributing.

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[darth_vader]

Doesn't Cobalion die to Reshiram? Kyurem is ineffective vs. Reshiram. Reshiram can OHKO Kyurem with Pluspower. It take Kyurem 3 turns to kill Reshirem (assuming you apply Weakness for the spread).

Would make a nice rogue deck, though. I think it will do well against Stage 1 decks and MewBox.

 

[vaporeon]

I would say Reshiram or other cheap fire attack just for Cobalions because you need to cover Kyurem weakness. In most cases, Cobalion can counter the Cobalion but even then it's between a 2 and 4 hit KO because of Eviolite, special metal or defender and that 4 turns gives your opponent a chance to setup. You'll need to be able to take them down in one shot. I just see this list having a hard time against Cobalion. Maybe try this.

Pokemon (17)

3 Cobalion NV
3-3 Electrode Prime
3 Kyurem NV
2-2 Simisear EP
1 Cleffa


Trainers/Supporters (28)

4 Pokemon Collector
3 Twins
3 Professor Oak's New Theory
2 Sage's Training
3 Pokemon Communication
3 Research Record
3 Junk Arm
3 Eviolite
2 Super Rod
1 Pokemon Catcher

Energies (16)

4 Water
2 Metal
4 Special Metal
4 Rainbow
2 DCE

Simisage is a cheap attacker, taking 1 fire and 2 random. In most cases it can be setup with one electrode. The DCE provides the means to retreat since everything takes 2 at most. The Rainbow gives you other attaching options because the main point is to spread. Use Cobalion as a backup attacker. You want to put pressure down with Kyurem. Spreading 60 to 90 damage in 2 to 3 turns makes Kyurem the target so Cobalion can bench sit for a while. I still don't agree with Cleffa in the deck but if you like it, then keep it. I would take the catchers out but I would leave one in for the just in case.

Twins is for the first electrode or 2. You can search another electrode if you fail the energymite and something else, maybe another twins for the next turn. Sages might not be needed, thats up to you. If you don't like the list, maybe try some pluspowers. Against Reshiram, Glaciate does 60. They can only outrage for 80, the next turn, do a pluspower glaciate for 80.

 

[gallade]

Cards that has to be included:

2-4 Cobalion - Either main or backup attacker depending on your preferences
I like 3 cobalion
2-4 Kyurem - Same as Cobalion
Only 2 kyurem, main focus of the deck is not kyurem
2-2/3-3 Electrode Prime - Gives you the energy acceleration needed, I'm still not quite sure about the numbers
I do 2-2, 3-3 is too much, wrecks your deck.
3-4 Pokémon Collector - I'd advise 4 but put 3 in there because there's really not much to set up
3 at most
8-10 Draw power - PONT, N, Twins, Sage's, all very recommendable, Juniper decks you out
Yes n yes pont.
3-4 Pokémon Catcher - Always fun to draw up something useless and lock with Cobalion/spread with Kyurem
3 is fine
3-4 Junk Arm - Reuse every trainer, cool
4 for sure. So much stuff is heading to the discard.
3-4 Eviolite - You need this many to KO back Reshirams after Blue Flare or just stay tanky with Cobalion
I use 2, could use 3 if you fear kyurem matchs
2-3 Switch - I recommend this many because of high retreat costs
I use 1, 2 at MOST.
1-2 Night Maintenance.. I mean Super Rod - Great if Pokémon gets discarded by Electrode and for retrieving energy
2 for sure
2-3 Pokémon Communication, or just some way to search for Electrode consistently
2 is enough
16 energy - Even out between metal (use special) and water, rainbow is great in here because no damage drawback
I use 14 if I recall correctly.
Cards that could be included:
I'll hold off on numbers here because it's dependent on your metagame and preferences.

Terrakion - Great revenge killer for anything weak to it, has great synergy with the deck in general
I use 1 of these. Haven't tested it mug though.
Landorus - Zekrom killer, has synergy in spreading damage like Kyurem
Terrakion has more bulk and is pretty much the same
Shaymin - I wanted to put this on the first list, but whatever. At some point in the game you'll want to move energy
idk, doubt it
Some of the draw supporters - I guess some are better than others, but I need to figure out which

Pokégear - Personally I love this card to get that T1 Collector or just a much needed supporter

Jirachi CL - I have my doubts regarding this, but it could work due to a lot of damage getting spread around

Ho-oh CL/Heatmor NV - Durant counter, as this decks out quickly against any mill decks

Research Record - Useful to save non-energies from discarding

Cleffa - I was'nt sure were to put it, but ended up here because it's hard for anything in the deck to retreat, and the strategy is very easy to pull off

Darkrai & Cresselia Legend - Nice tech that can come as a surprise and turn the game to your advantage


I would be happy if we could discuss these cards one at a time, if you think I've missed any I'll consider adding them to the list.

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[N plasma]

So with energy how abbot this
5 water
4 sp metal
3 metal
3 rainbow ( I'm testing with jirachi)
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[Mazu]

Sorry for the late reply, but I've done some more testing and I'm pretty sure this will be my deck for regs next week if I can get all of the cards. Some general notes I've found on the deck is that most of the time you want to start putting on pressure with Kyurem, so a T2 Kyurem is a good focus to start with. To ensure this some card numbers are needed like 3 Kyurem, 3-3 Electrode, 3-4 Collector and about 3 Communication. It makes the deck more consistent, and that is very important. If you can't get it going quickly, specifically Glaciate to line up the KOs, the game is pretty much over at that point.

Doesn't Cobalion die to Reshiram? Kyurem is ineffective vs. Reshiram. Reshiram can OHKO Kyurem with Pluspower. It take Kyurem 3 turns to kill Reshirem (assuming you apply Weakness for the spread).

Would make a nice rogue deck, though. I think it will do well against Stage 1 decks and MewBox.

Cobalion does die to Reshiram, yes, that is why Kyurem is there. Kyurem is effective as long as you can pull off an early Glactiate to avoid minor Outrage damage before a Blue Flare. Remember that Eviolite puts Kyurem pretty far out of OHKO range, so if they're stupid enough to use Blue Flare before an OHKO Kyurem will just answer with Outrage.

I would say Reshiram or other cheap fire attack just for Cobalions because you need to cover Kyurem weakness. In most cases, Cobalion can counter the Cobalion but even then it's between a 2 and 4 hit KO because of Eviolite, special metal or defender and that 4 turns gives your opponent a chance to setup. You'll need to be able to take them down in one shot. I just see this list having a hard time against Cobalion. Maybe try this.

Simisage is a cheap attacker, taking 1 fire and 2 random. In most cases it can be setup with one electrode. The DCE provides the means to retreat since everything takes 2 at most. The Rainbow gives you other attaching options because the main point is to spread. Use Cobalion as a backup attacker. You want to put pressure down with Kyurem. Spreading 60 to 90 damage in 2 to 3 turns makes Kyurem the target so Cobalion can bench sit for a while. I still don't agree with Cleffa in the deck but if you like it, then keep it. I would take the catchers out but I would leave one in for the just in case.

Twins is for the first electrode or 2. You can search another electrode if you fail the energymite and something else, maybe another twins for the next turn. Sages might not be needed, thats up to you. If you don't like the list, maybe try some pluspowers. Against Reshiram, Glaciate does 60. They can only outrage for 80, the next turn, do a pluspower glaciate for 80.

I can see where you are coming from with a fire tech, but Reshiram isn't effective against Cobalion. You would then need two switches to get out of the lock, and that's hard to pull off. I don't like Simisage because it's a stage two and this deck works because the only stage two included is supposed to kill itself. Setting up a stage one is hard when you discard 4-5 important cards from you deck simply charging it. I like switch over DCE just because you need to attach a metal/water each round to keep coming back when something is KOed. Catcher is great for bringing up Pokémon and spread damage on the field, forcing them to waste their energy attachment for the next turn and sometimes making them unable to attack.

I've found twins to be really great in this deck, because most of the time you two cards in some combination of Electrode/Eviolie/an energy/a basic. Sage's is not so good because you're already burning through your resources too fast.

So with energy how abbot this
5 water
4 sp metal
3 metal
3 rainbow ( I'm testing with jirachi)
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Something like that, but I like 4 Rainbow since it works for both Pokémon and doesn't have a drawback with Electrode. In fact, that drawback also works like a Pluspower for Kyurem, so you might actually end up needing it.

 

[N plasma]

What do you think of jirachi and dcl?
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[psychup2034]

Doesn't Cobalion die to Reshiram? Kyurem is ineffective vs. Reshiram. Reshiram can OHKO Kyurem with Pluspower. It take Kyurem 3 turns to kill Reshirem (assuming you apply Weakness for the spread).

Would make a nice rogue deck, though. I think it will do well against Stage 1 decks and MewBox.

If by "rogue" you mean "proven to be huge in Japan," then yes, this would make a nice rogue deck.

 

[TrainerEnjay]

I've built and tested this finally and it pretty much crushes everything but TyRam. The energies needed for glaciate are hard to come by in the early game save for a perfect energymite. My TyRam match did come down to 1 prize though. Early glaciate kind of hurts cobalion because they can outrage KO cobalions after Kyurem is knocked out by only getting off a few glaciates. I'm thinking of trying to throw in a 1-0-1 leavanny line myself. Though that can easily b catchered and KO'd.

 

[Shino Bug Master]

Heatmor doesnt even ohko Durant. If you need a Durant counter, run the Victini that can do 2 energy 100. ohkos through all defender/metal/evolites. This deck definately seems like a huge contendor. I would include one or two Research Record here. it really isnt that bad a card in any deck, but in one that runs Trode, its just tooo good.

 

[Mazu]

What do you think of jirachi and dcl?
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I think along with Shaymin and some careful play Jirachi can turn over some games, especially against decks like Tyram where Rare Candy is often used. If you can take out 1-2 Cyndaquils with Glaciate early game, and finish off two Typhlosions later with Jirachi it can turn the game completely. Even if they should manage to get them back it will be hard and take a couple of turns, leaving Reshiram without energy acceleration and giving you several rounds to Glaciate. DCL on the other hand is a tech I never took a liking too, though I might test it out if I get that far.

I've built and tested this finally and it pretty much crushes everything but TyRam. The energies needed for glaciate are hard to come by in the early game save for a perfect energymite. My TyRam match did come down to 1 prize though. Early glaciate kind of hurts cobalion because they can outrage KO cobalions after Kyurem is knocked out by only getting off a few glaciates. I'm thinking of trying to throw in a 1-0-1 leavanny line myself. Though that can easily b catchered and KO'd.

I think the trick against Tyram is having a consistent deck with Kyurem, Electrode Prime and Eviolite. If you can get the T2 Glaciate and damage the Reshirams enough so every Outrage they use will result in a KO from you next turn it should be in your favor. Cobalion shouldn't hit the field before the energy acceleration is gone really, because you can't afford to give away prizes in this match-up. I don't have faith in Leavanny because it's not consistent enough and will be catchered anyway.

Heatmor doesnt even ohko Durant. If you need a Durant counter, run the Victini that can do 2 energy 100. ohkos through all defender/metal/evolites. This deck definately seems like a huge contendor. I would include one or two Research Record here. it really isnt that bad a card in any deck, but in one that runs Trode, its just tooo good.

Victini sounds like a good idea against Durant, thanks. Research record is also golden, I'll play around a bit with the numbers and see what works best.

 

[N plasma]

What do think about shaymin? I took it out because I hated starting with it and I never used it.
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[vaporeon]

I don't think Shaymin is needed in the deck. What you should be doing is spreading till Kyurem dies or win the game.

 

[Gengar]

i really dont get cobalion tbh

 

[TrainerEnjay]

1 shaymin works for me perfectly (i only started with it once). Also against TyRam, I think the best thing is to throw in Jirachi. all my games with Tyram are close as it is (with me winning 50% of the time). Throwing in Jirachi would make the matchup favorable.

 

[honchvire]

Shouldnt Coba be enough to deal with Durant? If you dont OHKO, they will have to retreat(wasting energy) and leave themselves open to multiple prizes from a later glaciate. This is pure theorymon, I could see the situation where durant is milling you too quickly for you to set up a Coba.

Also Black Belt + Glaciate is awesome v Reshiram.

 

[N plasma]

Shouldnt Coba be enough to deal with Durant? If you dont OHKO, they will have to retreat(wasting energy) and leave themselves open to multiple prizes from a later glaciate. This is pure theorymon, I could see the situation where durant is milling you too quickly for you to set up a Coba.

Also Black Belt + Glaciate is awesome v Reshiram.

Back belt, that's a really good idea! With electrode you would be able to use it early.
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[Mazu]

What do think about shaymin? I took it out because I hated starting with it and I never used it.
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I'm not sure actually. It sucks starting with it, but it's very useful as you sometimes overload a single Pokémon with energy and want to move them later on. It should definitely be included with Jirachi.

i really dont get cobalion tbh

It's just synergy. It's a great basic, Sp.Metal can be loaded with Electrode, etc. Luxray and Garchomp didn't depend on each other to attack, but they still had great synergy.

1 shaymin works for me perfectly (i only started with it once). Also against TyRam, I think the best thing is to throw in Jirachi. all my games with Tyram are close as it is (with me winning 50% of the time). Throwing in Jirachi would make the matchup favorable.

I'm pretty sure I agree with this, though I'll have to do some testing to see how consistent it is.

Shouldnt Coba be enough to deal with Durant? If you dont OHKO, they will have to retreat(wasting energy) and leave themselves open to multiple prizes from a later glaciate. This is pure theorymon, I could see the situation where durant is milling you too quickly for you to set up a Coba.

Also Black Belt + Glaciate is awesome v Reshiram.

Blowing up a single Electrode versus Durant is probably going to cost you the game, therefore a cheap and efficient attacker like Victini is better. The combination of Kyurem and Cobalion just can't handle it because of too low damage output and Durant in general not being affected that much by their attacks. The problem here is getting a hold of Victini and the energys without using Electrode to activate Twins.

I can see how Black Belt works against Tyram, as most of the time it will have some damage counters on it to ensure the KO (if Reshiram has an eviolite attached). I would, however, rather try and focus on OHKOing their Typhlosion at first since they're harder to bring back and the deck depends more on them.

 

[N plasma]

What about cleffa worth the space?
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