The same could be said for any age group.
First year seniors usually don't do well either.
Did the prize increase result in increase attendance in Jr & Srs. A study please read
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The same could be said for any age group.
First year seniors usually don't do well either.
meganium45
Active Member
And, sometimes they do.
I think making Juniors older would actually make for smaller Junior and Senior Divisions over the next few years, as you would have less younger players winning, and staying with the game.
Let's face it. A lot of Juniors and Seniors get addicted to winning.
Vince
I think making Juniors older would actually make for smaller Junior and Senior Divisions over the next few years, as you would have less younger players winning, and staying with the game.
Let's face it. A lot of Juniors and Seniors get addicted to winning.
Vince
rileysill32
New Member
It is a bit off subject. But it has come to my attention and observation.
That we are on the last leg of Pokemon.
A majoirty of masters age from that 20is-25ish age.
We could say this game is growing in attendance from the last few years or lessening.
That is all besides the point of the matter and the topic is irrelevant.
The TRUE TOPIC at hand, is that the Pokemon TCG is a dying game.
Soon the high population of masters will move on/grow up/meet women & settle down and get married.
There will be no time for driving 4 states east to go to an extra couple state tournaments with a wife
and 2-3 little ones walking around.
So I think we all need to consider the future of the Pokemon TCG as a whole, and how much longer the
game will actually live. Especially considering the dwindling population in the younger age divisions.
Will pokemon TCG be around when the main fan base grows up?
That we are on the last leg of Pokemon.
A majoirty of masters age from that 20is-25ish age.
We could say this game is growing in attendance from the last few years or lessening.
That is all besides the point of the matter and the topic is irrelevant.
The TRUE TOPIC at hand, is that the Pokemon TCG is a dying game.
Soon the high population of masters will move on/grow up/meet women & settle down and get married.
There will be no time for driving 4 states east to go to an extra couple state tournaments with a wife
and 2-3 little ones walking around.
So I think we all need to consider the future of the Pokemon TCG as a whole, and how much longer the
game will actually live. Especially considering the dwindling population in the younger age divisions.
Will pokemon TCG be around when the main fan base grows up?
bullados
<a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?
While the Jr and Sr numbers aren't growing, they aren't shrinking either. That means that new players are replacing players that are aging up in aggregate. The age group that's seen the attendance explosion is the Masters group. And that's kind of to be expected, as there's the constant stream of former Jrs and Srs, but also new players, as well as some new-old players and some old-new players.
CMsvW
New Member
Magic doesn't need to throw money at and advertise towards kids to make the game more popular, it just continues to improve on itself, try new things and it somehow gets lots of players.
Again, I don't wanna be THAT GUY, but Pokemon should be focused on making tournaments and the actual game better... not about "Oh, let's add some incentive to an age group"
Again, I don't wanna be THAT GUY, but Pokemon should be focused on making tournaments and the actual game better... not about "Oh, let's add some incentive to an age group"
ShadowCard
Active Member
I'll bite on this. Do you have any specifics in mind?
rileysill32
New Member
Well to start for tournaments.
1) Money tournaments would be a HUGE plus.
But I think you would have to be 18+ or have legal parent or guardian sign you up.
That would draw in HUGE crowds and make more people take this game more seriously.
I don't know how many times, I've taught people how to play pokemon and the reason they said
they didn't want to play is because you couldn't win money back after you spend hundreds or thousands
on the cards. The only return is more cards, usually resulting in countless duplicates and "poop" cards.
2) Change the Prerelease format back to how it use to be in the Neo-FireRed LeafGreen era.
You got your packs to make a deck or you drafted to make a deck.
Then out of your cards, based on tournament population they would hold rounds of swiss.
The 1st place being awarded an additional booster box. 2nd place was like 24 packs, 3rd 18. and so on.
*Basically, what I am finding is that the prize & stakes are not worth it in the long run. Unless you are consistently coming in 1st place in a majority of the tournaments you enter.
As far as making the game better, they could stop releasing crap cards.
Cards that nobody will ever use, and will eventually find their way in troll and toads backroom
stuffed in a box to be shipped to some 3rd world country for $.01 each.
losjackal
Technical Administrator
From what I hear, #1 and #2 would result in a lot more cheating. Like it or not, the game has a player base that plays for the fun of it and the community. Look at how much the community railed against someone who was recently found cheating.
As for the crap cards, only a minority of buyers of the cards play competitively. There are lots of kids who buy and trade and collect the cards for fun.
As for the crap cards, only a minority of buyers of the cards play competitively. There are lots of kids who buy and trade and collect the cards for fun.
CMsvW
New Member
I don't want to derail the thread (Even though I guess I asked for it) so I'll just list things super quick.
1. Pokemon should cover the card game better. The MTG website has tournament results, the winning decks, interviews with players, etc. I think it's silly that we HAVE to go to unofficial websites like these to keep up with the game
2. More playable cards in a set. Yes, I know the Pokemon people here have very little to do with it, but it's ridiculous the 3/4 of most sets are unplayable. Why don't we have more stadium options, more tools with interesting effects, WHERES THE TMs? Having options is never a bad thing and if there's more playable cards, WE'LL BUY MORE CARDS
3. Communication should be better. We find too many things last minute, the actual Pokemon group in Japan does next to nothing to keep in touch with us. It'd be nice if every now and then, representatives talked to the players and got a feel for things. I feel like this MIGHT be heading in the right direction now, but we are way behind.
4. Support for more formats. Every card shop I go to for MTG makes LOTS of money off drafts. We'll have 4-5 almost every day. We get 8 people, they each pay $12 (Yes, itd have to be more for Pokemon. Like $20), and we crack open a box and draft. Top 2 gets their next draft free plus $6 in store credit. Pokemon should print multiple trainers/supporters per set (more options again) so each set is draftable. Cards could be made with this in mind.
Also, where's the Palace format? or even some sort of unlimited? THERE HAS to be potential for something there.
I could probably go on, because I think about this too much and have nothing better to do with my life :v. But I'm rambling. I just feel like if we continued to expand on the game, we wouldnt have to worry about "Ushering in a new generation" . Don't get me wrong, I like that we have separate divisions, but I think we should all get the same benefits.
Mystery Thing
Administrator
There's nothing stopping people from doing this. Yeah, they wouldn't be allowed to be sanctioned, but it's not like your cards will spontaneously combust if there's money involved.
And let's be reasonable here; you don't need to spend thousands of dollars on cards in order to be competitive.
No. Heaven, no. It is WAY to easy to cheat if it's your second PR of a cycle. Also, why should 1st get awarded a box in a tournament that has absurd amounts of luck involved in deck building? If you get a crap set of cards, it doesn't matter how good you are, you aren't winning anything. I went undefeated at the Sandstorm PR, giving up a grand total of 4 prize cards, because I got a miracle set of packs. I also didn't win a game and only drew a single prize card (in the first game) of a sealed tournament at Origins one year. Neither of those two are anything even remotely close to a fair description of my skill level as a player. You may as well draw a name out of a hat (which second-tournament players are allowed to stuff) and just give that person a box.
meganium45
Active Member
As for money tournaments - the same thing holds these back, as holds back EVERY Pokemon event.
Either players expect 100% return for their money (100% given back into the prize pool) or the organizer has to figure out how to pay for judging and make the time worth their while.
We did $200 top prize events back a decade ago, and we would only get 14 to 20 people to show up with a $20 entry fee.
The disease is that Pokemon has made all of their constructed events free. People now expect free Pokemon events.
Those free events give prizes. They can't understand why they have to pay for (1) overhead or (2) prizes like the players of EVERY other game seem to understand.
The #1 way to shoot down any player from ANY other game about the Prerelease price increase? Point out that EVERY other game does their prereleases at MSRP for the packs. Pokemon is the only one that has historically discounted.
Mention that to a Pokemon player and they will screech about the price of a box and yada yada.
Every other game is USED to the pricing being MSRP for sneak peek events.
Not completely dogging Pokemon people on this, but the mindset is certainly different than players in the other games.
Hey, and stop dogging Yugioh Players. There are bad seeds in every group, but as a whole, those are still a good group of players. And any group that pays full MSRP for 5 packs of product, then play all day for a playmat (top 8) a deckbox (top 4) and an invite (T32) for 9 hours of swiss....OK in my book.
Vince
Vince
Either players expect 100% return for their money (100% given back into the prize pool) or the organizer has to figure out how to pay for judging and make the time worth their while.
We did $200 top prize events back a decade ago, and we would only get 14 to 20 people to show up with a $20 entry fee.
The disease is that Pokemon has made all of their constructed events free. People now expect free Pokemon events.
Those free events give prizes. They can't understand why they have to pay for (1) overhead or (2) prizes like the players of EVERY other game seem to understand.
The #1 way to shoot down any player from ANY other game about the Prerelease price increase? Point out that EVERY other game does their prereleases at MSRP for the packs. Pokemon is the only one that has historically discounted.
Mention that to a Pokemon player and they will screech about the price of a box and yada yada.
Every other game is USED to the pricing being MSRP for sneak peek events.
Not completely dogging Pokemon people on this, but the mindset is certainly different than players in the other games.
Hey, and stop dogging Yugioh Players. There are bad seeds in every group, but as a whole, those are still a good group of players. And any group that pays full MSRP for 5 packs of product, then play all day for a playmat (top 8) a deckbox (top 4) and an invite (T32) for 9 hours of swiss....OK in my book.
Vince
Vince
z-man
New Member
Other games allow you to win prizes from Prereleases. Typically, they'll pay a little bit more than MSRP for the prerelease, but the T4 typically get more than double their money's worth. This last magic prerelease, I was one win away from winning a whole box. Instead, I only got a quarter box (on top of the 6 packs). The ability to win more than what you pay for is very important. In Pokemon, we pay at about MSRP to get exactly 8 packs... no more... no less. There's no ability to "double our money", so the critique that prereleases are overpriced is legit. We get exactly what we pay for. IMO, it'd be better to pay for more than what we get, and be able to win far more than what we pay for (like how the other games work).
Mystery_thing said:
Why not? Other card games do it just fine. Cheating may be an issue, but when is it not? I think the potential for a more fun event outweighs the potential negative of having more severe cheating. Prereleases aren't entirely luck (but they are mostly luck right now). If we had better sets, prereleases would be a lot more skillful. As long as prereleases aren't for points, let luck decide the winner of a few packs. It doesn't hurt anyone. The ability to compete for a prize is a lot more fun than the ability to play a few games and go home not caring about the result of any of the games. Prereleases right now are fairly anti-fun IMO just because the sets are awful for sealed deck building, and there's no challenge. If you win, great. If you lose, oh well. With nothing on the line, there's no reason to play in a tournament when you can play with your friends for fun.
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ShadowCard
Active Member
Sevierville: 3 + 16 + 20 = 39
Cleveland: 2 + 7 + 17 = 26
Lawman, the above two events are your 2012 Autumn Battle Roads. Considering Masters outnumbered the Juniors and Seniors combined at both events, do you think it is okay that Masters are "left short"?
rileysill32
New Member
my thoughts exactly.
why not just let us walk up, pay our $30 and go home for new cards earlier than they come out.
other than that, with nothing to play for. we have no reason to play the few rounds of battle that we play.
maybe not a booster box for 1st place. but maybe 12 packs for goodness sake
I remember those.
The good days of pokemon!
Back at the old DK. Or when we had a few unlimited tournaments.
I'm pretty sure you held a few unlimited cash prize tournaments.
Hammertime
New Member
Why don't they just have Pre-Releases all on the same day like Magic etc? I guess that still wouldn't solve it
because someone might find another way to cheat.
because someone might find another way to cheat.
rileysill32
New Member
that would involve too much common sense.
and would take a big on their pocket books.
if all the prereleases are on the same day.
a majority of people wouldn't be able to show up.
thus losing countless $30 entry fees and making a direct profit.
holding them on numerous days ensures a wider group of people get the chance to attend
and others get to attend multiples of the events. generating more revenue for the company.
it's all about the $
The travel stipends arent paid at BR events, so that is not a fair measure. Plus, this is a TPCi OP issue for the bigger events.
I will take my 16 SRs at my main locale at a BR anytime. Especially out of 39 players.
Keith
bullados
<a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?
You and me both, Keith. And I think most TOs out there would agree with you.
Actually, doesn't that make the argument FOR incenting SRs and JRs more than MRs?
If the goal is to increase those numbers, no?
Think about it from the marketing perspective.
Not to say I like the way they are doing it.
Just pointing out that your argument works better against you.
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