Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Do we spend too much time worrying about deckbuilding?

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FunnyBear

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How much of a game is the deck?
How much is skill?
How much is luck?

Nothing you can do about luck, but do we place too much emphasis on deckbuilding as opposed to skill building? Obviously, I think we do. Look at all the people on the bottom tables with Raybees or Gyrados, as well as the top tables, which are pretty much the same group of people all the time, pretty much playing the same decks.

What skills do you see in better players?
What can you/do you do to work on your skills in Pokemon?

Discuss.
 
Deckbuilding takes skill too. There is such a thing as a bad RayBees or Gyarados build, after all, and if..less than good players are playing them, they either netdecked or it's probably not a very good list. If they NetDeck, the deck isn't optimized for their style of play. Everybody has their taste and preference, and certain cards give different people a better chance of winning. It's just in the way people play. List A won't necessarily work for Player B. If it's not a very good list, then they just don't have the deckbuilding skill of some of the better players.

Being a good deckbuilder is part of being a good player. As for becoming better at the table.....the main thing that I recommend is just playing. Play, win or lose, talk about your game. Maybe have other players watch and they can tell you where things went wrong if you can't, give you extra analysis. Best thing is just to learn from mistakes. If you lose, take that loss and try not to put yourself in that situation next time. If you won, figure what you did right so you can do it better next game. A good deck list is a huge part of winning the battle, though. It puts you in favorable positions much more often than a lesser list does, and will be more consistent.
 
The only thing I worry about is the insane amount of money we have to pay for those pieces of paper that I need for my decks.
 
Most people don't spend nearly enough time worrying about decks.

I spent nearly 3 months agonizing over my states deck, tweaking, playtesting, tweaking some more until it was nearly perfect.

The result? I went 13-2 over 2 states, with a 9-0 win at one of them. I doubt I would have had the same great success if I hadn't spent as much time working on my deck.

The truth of the matter is that Pokemon takes time and work if you want to be good at it. Yes, I've seen great players pull of impressive records with next to no practice with a deck. Heck, I've done it my self and had good success with it once or twice. However, doing that isn't really recommended for the most part, and still requires a VERY good understanding of how decks work, which you get by... lots and lots of deck building. lol

Why do you see the same decks at the bottom tables as well as the top tables? One set is the net deckers, the other set is the people who actually spend a little time on their list. For example, for the BR I went to I used Gyarados. I didn't build it from scratch, I grabed a decent looking list off the beach. However, unlike the people who you'll find at the bottom tables, I took the time to change it to my liking. I added a few creative techs, made some adjustments to what I knew my meta was, and in general made tweaks untill I was happy with the list. I wound up making top 4 with that list. I can almost gaurentee that I would not have done as well if I hadn't have spent some time working on the list.

Deck building is such a HUGE part of the game, and so many people don't seem to grasp this. What you build and use can very well determine how well you are able to do at a given event. Spend time, build good decks, spend more time, make those good decks better. Test, refine, take your losses and learn from them, and refine some more. Do this, and you'll be a better player because of it.
 
Most of my success hasn't come from the deckbuilding side of things. Usually, I don't worry about what I'm playing until the night before or the day of the tournament. It's possible to win tournaments - even fairly big ones - without giving a second thought to what your list will look like until hours before round one.

However, my area is neither competitive nor developed. If you're living in one of the big Pokemon states, you'd better put more than a handful of hours into testing if you want to win. The more testing you do with a deck, the less errors you'll make with that deck in a competitive setting. Familiarity breeds accuracy.
 
My opinion is that 3 things make a great player:

A great list
A great understanding of the game
A great understanding of the metagame, and playing the right decks and techs accordingly.

So many people don't put enough effort into deckbuilding, and its difficult to win a big tournament with a medicore list.
 
nnaann said:
My opinion is that 3 things make a great player:

A great list
A great understanding of the game
A great understanding of the metagame, and playing the right decks and techs accordingly.

So many people don't put enough effort into deckbuilding, and its difficult to win a big tournament with a medicore list.
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Also thinking outside the box. And every one knows it's all about rigged dice:wink:
 
The pokemon deck/list is the foundation for success. A good deck is the most important step to a tournament's success.

The deck provides the consistency, opportunity, and advantages that allow a good player to exploit. First and foremost is the list, however.
 
The most important aspect to winning is your deck. If you have an extremely well built list and are playing a deck that stands up very well against your metagame, you're in very good shape. Skill is important, but if your deck just doesn't have the answers to problems you're going to face, it's going to require more luck to do well. I would rather have a better deck than be more skilled than my opponent.
 
Skill isn't important IMO. That is shown by the choice of cards like Machamp SF and Gengar SF (Uxie.Shuppet donk are based on the Luck of the draw). What's important is being able to take the right decision at the right time.
 
This game is like 50% deckbuilding, 30% luck, and 20% skill (in terms of actually playing a game). G ood deck lists can mitigate both your luck and the skill needed to win a match.
 
10% Luck,
20% skill,
15% Concentrated Powers of Will
5% Pleasure and
50% Pain

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afstandopleren said:
Skill isn't important IMO. That is shown by the choice of cards like Machamp SF and Gengar SF (Uxie.Shuppet donk are based on the Luck of the draw). What's important is being able to take the right decision at the right time.
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You have no idea how many times I have seen players misplay a Shadow Room. Gengar is tougher to play than people admit.

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ryanvergel said:
The pokemon deck/list is the foundation for success. A good deck is the most important step to a tournament's success.

The deck provides the consistency, opportunity, and advantages that allow a good player to exploit. First and foremost is the list, however.
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+1 Couldn't have put it better.
 
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If the game was all luck, we wouldn't see any consistency in the winners. But we do.

Time you put it into playing and testing decks matter. I got Lackey in 2005 and was able to test far more easily and more often than ever before. Before that I was a pretty good 11-14 player that usually didn't win but came in top 8s top 4s etc. That year (in 15+) I was 9-1 at regionals, won the first gym challenge I competed in and got 2nd at worlds. I've had pretty consistent results in years since then as well.

Of course I've had tournaments I prepared for well and got some bad luck. That will happen. But overall, you definitely get more success in the game the more you put in to preparing for it.
 
Deck building and formulating perfect lists are first and foremost in any competitive TCG. With that said, skill is usually a given if a player can make a top cut deck, they usually know how to play it and the game well.
 
Azure Kite said:
Moving this to TCG News and Gossip forum for further discussion.
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Thanks for characterizing my discussion as gossip.

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Controversial said:
Deckbuilding takes skill too. ....
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Of course, but a somewhat different skill. Related, but not the same.

Controversial said:
Being a good deckbuilder is part of being a good player. .
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Necessary, but not sufficient. That is, being a good deckbuilder is necessary to be a good player, but not in itself sufficient to being a good player. I was asking about how much of being a good player you think the rest of it is.

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afstandopleren said:
Skill isn't important IMO.
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From the winner of the Cheap Deck Deckbuilding contest.... ok

afstandopleren said:
What's important is being able to take the right decision at the right time.
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Thank you for providing an excellent working definition of "skill" in Pokemon.

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xcfrisco said:
This game is like 50% deckbuilding, 30% luck, and 20% skill (in terms of actually playing a game). G ood deck lists can mitigate both your luck and the skill needed to win a match.
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I'd put it at 40/20/40 myself, or maybe even 30/20/50, but then again there are players in my area that could do well with Bibarel/Mismagius.
 
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Yeah, okay, I explain myself in a bad way. It was actually meant as a sarcastic remark towards a good lump of people that played the mentioned type of decks.

IMO Skill is divided in 2 ways: Skill in terms of deck building and the 1 I already mentioned about being able to make the right decisions and the right time. I personally find it hard to find a balance as I tend to do things by intuition. If it doesn't feel right or has a specific vibe, then I won't play it.
 
I like how someone besides me knows remember the name(Jaeger)! I agree with the people that say that there is a fair amount of luck in the game, but I think that there's more skill involved.:smile:
 
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