Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Finish this sentence: The card this format would be better without is...

J

jigglejuice

New Member
I have been catching alot of crap the past couple days because I told my card playing buddies that I think the overall health of the game would be improved without pokemon catcher. Since catcher came out there are at least 4 to 5 different unique deck ideas I have thought of that I kind of just tossed to the side. The conclusion I came to every time was "This deck idea is unplayable because I am just going to get catchered anyway." The power to force your opponent to switch his pokemon is nothing new, it has been the effect of attacks from pokemon for years. It has also been through supporter and trainer cards. Nothing besides gust of wind in the base set has done so without some sort of drawback though. I suppose there is a reason it has taken this long to reprint gust of wind.

Now I am not suggesting that the card has to completely go away, but I would enjoy seeing it go the way tropical beach does. If you use it your turn ends. I might even settle for it only having the power to catch basics. Right now though I firmly believe as a fan of the game and as somebody with common sense that catcher is running more like a trap card from Yugioh than a pokemon card. As somebody who fell in love with this game as a child in 98 and did so again in February I only want what is best for it. I don't believe catcher would qualify in this catagory. Thank you for reading my rant and I would be interested in hearing any well thought out responses for or against catcher or on any other card you believe hurts the overall health of the game unfairly.
 
I agree with this for the most part, Catcher is not healthy for the game. However, in the state the game was, they had almost no choice but to print Catcher. The format would've been very luck-based without it, so in this current situation, it is actually helping the skill-factor of the game more than harming it. Rogue deck ideas can still work even with Catcher in the format, however, it takes a lot more skill now to build a deck and do well with it. I think that once Catcher gets rotated, it shouldn't be reprinted again, and neither should Pokemon Reversal. While Catcher is the main reason a lot of stage 2 decks aren't doing well, i'd rather have a more skill-based format then a luck-based one.
 
There have always been cards that prevented certain decks/combos from being successful. That is the nature of the game. There are always a ton of 'if only' decks, and no deck has a 'right' to be viable in a format.

Catcher is fine. It's not like there are no counters.

The only card you can really make a case for imo is Pachi because of the part it can play in T1 wins.

I think the format would be improved by adding certain cards (better draw/search options, more Stadiums, and better starters) more than it would be by taking stuff away.
 
I don't like catcher. Ideally (and this is only my personal ideal) catcher AND reversal should be banned. In my personal opinion, catcher is bad, but reversal is worse.
Posted with Mobile style...
 
I've seen a few people make similar sentiments, but I still don't quite understand it. Sure catcher makes certain decks harder to make/play, but at the same time it makes other decks easier to play and build. One such example would be Durant who is a flimsy difficult to keep alive card, but Catcher makes it possible to change the field and allow the deck to buy a turn or two. While cards like Reuniclus might suffer from Catcher there are cards that become playable because of it.

Catcher in of itself is neither weak or strong, but how it's used can be. It opens up new opportunities in the game, and like baby mario said if anything this format needs more options, not less. After all that's part of the reason why the delta formats were so fun, they had more options for a deck.
 
Elite_4_Allen said:
I agree with this for the most part, Catcher is not healthy for the game. However, in the state the game was, they had almost no choice but to print Catcher. The format would've been very luck-based without it, so in this current situation, it is actually helping the skill-factor of the game more than harming it. Rogue deck ideas can still work even with Catcher in the format, however, it takes a lot more skill now to build a deck and do well with it. I think that once Catcher gets rotated, it shouldn't be reprinted again, and neither should Pokemon Reversal. While Catcher is the main reason a lot of stage 2 decks aren't doing well, i'd rather have a more skill-based format then a luck-based one.
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As strange as it sounds I am okay with pokemon reversal. Even if it is luck based at least their is a barrier in between the action and the effect. I do agree that a luck based format is not a format that I would enjoy either. For the person who said that adding a draw engine would improve the game, I completely agree with you. I didn't play in the previous format and even I miss Claydol's pokemon power.
 
One card to ban?

Pachi.

I hate donks beyond everything else in this game, and Pachi makes donks possible.
 
baby mario said:
There have always been cards that prevented certain decks/combos from being successful. That is the nature of the game. There are always a ton of 'if only' decks, and no deck has a 'right' to be viable in a format.

Catcher is fine. It's not like there are no counters.

The only card you can really make a case for imo is Pachi because of the part it can play in T1 wins.

I think the format would be improved by adding certain cards (better draw/search options, more Stadiums, and better starters) more than it would be by taking stuff away.
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Well the idea of Trainer N coming in makes Catcher even more deadly IMO.
 
Elite_4_Allen said:
I agree with this for the most part, Catcher is not healthy for the game. However, in the state the game was, they had almost no choice but to print Catcher. The format would've been very luck-based without it, so in this current situation, it is actually helping the skill-factor of the game more than harming it. Rogue deck ideas can still work even with Catcher in the format, however, it takes a lot more skill now to build a deck and do well with it. I think that once Catcher gets rotated, it shouldn't be reprinted again, and neither should Pokemon Reversal. While Catcher is the main reason a lot of stage 2 decks aren't doing well, i'd rather have a more skill-based format then a luck-based one.
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Pokemon Reversal will obviously be reprinted. Can't say the same for Catcher, though. Reversal's been being reprinted for over 5 years now.

As for Catcher and other things, I felt the same way at first. But now being a member using catcher to my advantage as well and seeing the ups and downs, I have to look at it from the overusage of the tools released perspective. People try forcing all these elite cards into a deck of 60. Eviolite, Rocky Helmet, Catcher, etc. are good examples. The more of these they run the less supporter usage they run as well. As stated before, this is Pokemon not Yugioh. Stuffing and forcing into such a margin doesn't necessarily work - not in most scenarios. This being said it takes much more skill to build a deck and it's making the metagame open up as well but once rotated I can't see it being reprinted. I'm nearly certain that Reversal will be though.
 
Pokemon Collector.

What do donk decks need? Pokemon Collector. What kills using set-up Pokemon? Pokemon Collector. Why bother to use a set-up Pokemon, to get others out, when you can just Collector them out? What turns into an Energyless-Roseanne's Research and a Pokemon-in Bebe's Search with Communication? Pokemon Collector. Want a bunch of big HP dragons or genies? Crazy quadruped musketeers? Pokemon Collector.
 
MegaVelocibot said:
Pokemon Collector.

What do donk decks need? Pokemon Collector. What kills using set-up Pokemon? Pokemon Collector. Why bother to use a set-up Pokemon, to get others out, when you can just Collector them out? What turns into an Energyless-Roseanne's Research and a Pokemon-in Bebe's Search with Communication? Pokemon Collector. Want a bunch of big HP dragons or genies? Crazy quadruped musketeers? Pokemon Collector.
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Lack of Pokemon Collector would mess this format up, and not in a good way.
 
Yeah, the other way of looking at it is this:

What do donk decks need? A lone Pokemon sitting on the opponent's side of the field with no easy way to search more out.
 
Tropical Beach.

$$$$$$ + One of Only a Couple Playable Stadiums + Used at Worlds Final Table + Extremely Limited Supply = Unfair for Poorer Players (i.e., the majority of Pokemon players) and thus Unhealthy for the Game


I'll agree that Pachirisu makes certain decks very good and is an enabler of donks, but I don't think that the format would be better without it. I think it is ironic that Pachirisu is used very well in Megazone decks to add quick damage to Lost Burn; in other words, Pachirisu in Megazone serves as somewhat of a counter against ZPST.

Catcher can be played around. I haven't seen any mainstream decks "die out" because of Catcher. In fact, Catchers have allowed games to be less luck-based in the sense that it takes away the flip that Reversal requires. Skilled players have figured out a way to not only incorporate Catcher into their decks, but to design decks in such a way to mitigate the effect of Catcher. A prime example of this is the suddenly increased popularity of Switch.

Collector, while donk-enabling, also helps prevent donks and gives many decks the ability to compete. Decks like Reshiphlosion and Megazone (and most other decks with evolutions) would not be as viable without a way to reliably search out the necessary basics. Moreover, taking out Collector from the format would actually benefit donk decks, since Dual Ball is still an available play. As an example, A ZPST list that performed very well at the Regionals I attended used 4 Dual Ball and only 1 Collector.

I don't think that "What do donk decks need? Pokemon Collector. what kills using set-up Pokemon? Pokemon Collector?" is a fair statement at all. Donk decks also need energy, they also need Professor Juniper, and they also need Junk Arm. Should we take out those cards from the format too just because donk decks need them? Collector helps donk decks, but helps evolution decks much more (because donk decks that primarily feature basic Pokemon can use Dual Ball much more effectively than an evolution deck can).

I agree with baby mario that the format needs cards to be added more than it needs anything to be taken away. As an example of how diverse the format already is, take a look at the list of decks that placed Top 4 in last weekend's Regionals (in the 6 masters events that have been reported, sorry seniors; I'm not sure how many Regionals there are in total):

8 Reshiphlosion (6 vanilla, 1 w/ Kingdra, 1 w/ Magnezone)
5 Megazone
3 ZPST
2 Truth
2 Donphan/Zoroark/Dragons (1 w/ Reshiram, 1 w/ Tornadus)
1 Magneboar
1 Donchamp w/ Vileplume
1 Yanmega/Donphan
1 Vileplume/Kingdra/Beartic

Only 3 ZPST made Top 4 at Regionals (12.5%). There's some real diversity in the types of decks that did well. Contrary to what some people are saying, Pokemon Catcher has not made donk decks suddenly "take over." If anything, results from Battle Roads made people play decks that had an answer for ZPST.
 
For all the people complaining about catcher. Do you have any idea how broken a deck like GardyMewtwo or decks that abuse Reuniclus would be without catcher in the format?
 
without Tropical Beach OR they need to make it available to everyone (i.e. a reprint or promo). Tropical Beach is a really good card but it's only available to a select few. Not really fair at all.
 
Catcher beats certain slow decks and gives easy prizes throughout a game.

Pachi beats anything T1 and gives an easy win.

Pachi is MUCH MUCH MUCH worse for the game.
 
As much as I dislike Catcher, and believe me, I really, REALLY hate the card with the white hot intensity of a thousand suns, I'd much rather see Pachirisu go.

Pachi allows for Zekrom and Tornadus to donk your opponent. Take out Pachi, and Zekrom becomes less playable, and donks are virtually non-existent outside of a couple of flukes.
 
I really dislike Aipom (Tail Code), see that wide smile on its face, I don't like that face at all. That Aipom is a maniac.
 
I think it's all about creating a balanced format, and while Catcher might be seen as a lone factor that easily can be banned, it is actually so big a part of the format that taking it away will make everything bad/worse. Pachirisu, however, isn't a big part of the format but is a really annoying factor that takes a huge crap on anything called strategy and skill.
 
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